Stansted coach changes - a bit of a mess

[WestCoast]

CityLink will permit travel on later coaches if the flight is late arriving.

There are only two companies providing coach travel from Luton Airport to London (NatExp and Green Line). At Stansted Airport there are two coach companies, PLUS a direct train service.

There's three companies at Luton Airport at the moment isn't there? In addition to National Express and Green Line, easyBus operate a service with their own vehicles from Bus Stop 9 outside the terminal to Liverpool Street. They use minibuses admittedly, but they are still very much competition for the others as they do sell walk-up tickets and have a desk inside the terminal.

I'm not so familiar with Stansted but the airport does have 67% more passengers annually than Luton. With the volume of budget travellers coming in on Ryanair and easyJet wanting to reach Central London, there could well be a market for four operators.

 

[Robertj21a]

CityLink will permit travel on later coaches if the flight is late arriving.

There are only two companies providing coach travel from Luton Airport to London (NatExp and Green Line). At Stansted Airport there are two coach companies, PLUS a direct train service. The train goes to Liverpool Street, NatExp to Stratford and Victoria and CityLink to Kings Cross . . . that's a pretty fair range of destinations really!

((The reason that CityLink goes to Kings Cross is that it reduces traffic delays across to Victoria (where there's no space in the Coach Station anyway) and KX has very good onward Tube links)).

I'm struggling to see what the downside is here . . . . .

Lack of a truly competitive environment ?

 

[Martin nx]

Lack of a truly competitive environment ?

Try a damn site safer coach station with the demise of Terriblevision and Squeezybus! Ask Mid stay about how much damage Terravision have caused since moving there! Easybus were forever just chucking litter all over the layover bays as well as using the grass area near the trees as a toilet! And before anyone asks I have been driving NX mainfleet services in and out of the coach station for many years and I can assure you no one working here misses either of those clown operators 1 bit!

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

surely access to airport coach stations is regulated by the same laws that access to council/ company owned bus stations is? After all, even though they may be on private property they are public spaces on public roads... I'd love Stansted to try and prosecute a non-allowed operator for trespass.... that WOULD be amusing!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I can assure you no one working here misses either of those clown operators 1 bit!

I'd call Epsom Coaches/RATP (who also hold National Express contracts) many things, but a "clown operator" isn't one of them.

CityLink will permit travel on later coaches if the flight is late arriving.

There are only two companies providing coach travel from Luton Airport to London (NatExp and Green Line). At Stansted Airport there are two coach companies, PLUS a direct train service. The train goes to Liverpool Street, NatExp to Stratford and Victoria and CityLink to Kings Cross . . . that's a pretty fair range of destinations really!

((The reason that CityLink goes to Kings Cross is that it reduces traffic delays across to Victoria (where there's no space in the Coach Station anyway) and KX has very good onward Tube links)).

I'm struggling to see what the downside is here . . . . .

The judge in the Luton Airport case specifically stated that he didn't consider the railway to be a competitor, as they cater for very different markets and budget airline passengers tend to be more price-sensitive.

Luton Airport were found against because they gave exclusive access to one coach operator and one minibus operator. Stansted Airport have given exclusive access to two coach operators and one minibus operator. That might be enough to demonstrate there is still downstream competition, but I wouldn't share your optimism, especially if prices have risen dramatically since the change and/or Stansted Airport's contract include a percentage share of revenue.

As for the "downside", I note ComfortDelGro (trading as CityLink) are charging 40% more than Epsom Coaches/RATP (trading as Terravision) were for the same service.

 

[embers25]

I'd call Epsom Coaches/RATP (who also hold National Express contracts) many things, but a "clown operator" isn't one of them.



The judge in the Luton Airport case specifically stated that he didn't consider the railway to be a competitor, as they cater for very different markets and budget airline passengers tend to be more price-sensitive.

Luton Airport were found against because they gave exclusive access to one coach operator and one minibus operator. Stansted Airport have given exclusive access to two coach operators and one minibus operator. That might be enough to demonstrate there is still downstream competition, but I wouldn't share your optimism, especially if prices have risen dramatically since the change and/or Stansted Airport's contract include a percentage share of revenue.

As for the "downside", I note ComfortDelGro (trading as CityLink) are charging 40% more than Epsom Coaches/RATP (trading as Terravision) were for the same service.

So clearly no downside then!!! Also Easybus were often even cheaper than Terravision. In addition, unlike Luton, the train to Stansted is MUCH more expensive than the coaches. Also Terravision ad Easybus have better frequencies than Citylink and I'm not a fan of the KX stop as there's plenty of congestion around it.

 

[Martin nx]

I'd call Epsom Coaches/RATP (who also hold National Express contracts) many things, but a "clown operator" isn't one of them.

I would agree with you on Epsom Coaches, Always smartly dressed staff and very clean Setras, but Terravision, never. Coaches that are in a disgraceful state of repair, imported drivers who seem to think lane 3 is ok for them to use, I even had 1 overtake me on the INSIDE at Wansted at a junction with his N/S wheels on the kerb! I think "clowns" is understated to be honest! :roll:

 

[Wolfie]

Try a damn site safer coach station with the demise of Terriblevision and Squeezybus! Ask Mid stay about how much damage Terravision have caused since moving there! Easybus were forever just chucking litter all over the layover bays as well as using the grass area near the trees as a toilet! And before anyone asks I have been driving NX mainfleet services in and out of the coach station for many years and I can assure you no one working here misses either of those clown operators 1 bit!

Hardly an impartial and unbiased view methinks. For what it's worth as a consumer I found Terravision to be more flexible, equally reliable, and a damn sight cheaper than NX.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I would agree with you on Epsom Coaches, Always smartly dressed staff and very clean Setras, but Terravision, never.

You do realise who has the Terravision franchise don't you?

 

[WestCoast]

I thought Terravision have never operated any of their own vehicles in the UK? What about the Manchester - Liverpool Airport Service?

The Stansted service used to be ran by Excalibur Coaches, but the contract quite recently changed to Epsom Coaches.

The problem I see with Stansted Citylink is £10 fare (30 day Advance fare on Stansted Express is usually less) and lack of partnerships with any of the big airlines at Stansted.

 

[swifty]

Terravision have never operated any of their own vehicles in the UK, they are just an agency awarding franchises. The Stansted service used to be ran by Excalibur Coaches, but the contract quite recently changed to Epsom Coaches.

Yes they have - check the legals on this one, https://flickr.com/photos/68455781@N02/22199100146/in/. They've held that license for a few years, running various Scania/Irizars. In fact I believe the Manchester service is operated in house.

 

[WestCoast]

Yes they have - check the legals on this one, https://flickr.com/photos/68455781@N02/22199100146/in/. They've held that license for a few years, running various Scania/Irizars. In fact I believe the Manchester service is operated in house.

I stand corrected. They've always seemed rather under the radar.

 

[chubs]

Do the bays at the sides (low numbers and high numbers) get used much? They are always empty when I pass through.

 

[Martin nx]

You do realise who has the Terravision franchise don't you?

Not bothered to be honest! All of us are just glad they are gone! The bays they were on are now occupied by City-Link and Autostradale are next to them, both of these seem to be doing things the right way with drivers and vehicles so it has to be a positive move. Autostradale are more or less an NX 3rd party operator and have now got 65 plated Levantes.

 

[Stats]

Although there is only one minibus operator- Autostradale

I don't think they are a minibus operator.

http://www.airportbusexpress.co.uk/our-fleet/

Our coaches have a seating capacity for 48 Passengers or 46 + 1 wheelchair user.

 

[ScotGG]

Just looked at autostradale. Website seems a bit of a shambles and £13! Complete rip off compared to £6 one way or £11 return that Terravision offered.

 

[plcd1]

Just as a passing observation the 767 Stansted Citylink passes the top of my road so I see the coaches fairly often if out and about. I have so far seen only one coach with any passengers on it - 4 in total. All other workings have been empty. If there is any form of commercial risk being taken by Comfort Delgro they can't be happy to be burning fuel, paying coach hire fees (for the motley fleet) and carrying no one.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't think they are a minibus operator.

http://www.airportbusexpress.co.uk/our-fleet/

Ah, when I made that comment their website was (helpfully) only in Italian. I was basing it on the fact that Stelios- who runs minibuses- was mostly attacking Autostradale and had implied they were running minibuses in competition to him.

If there are three coach operators running the route, it's going to get harder to argue that Stansted have distorted competition.

ETA: goodness me that website is a shambles. It made more sense when it was just in Italian. Good to see they've got a UK telephone booking line :roll:

 

[plcd1]

Ah, when I made that comment their website was (helpfully) only in Italian. I was basing it on the fact that Stelios- who runs minibuses- was mostly attacking Autostradale and had implied they were running minibuses in competition to him.

If there are three coach operators running the route, it's going to get harder to argue that Stansted have distorted competition.

ETA: goodness me that website is a shambles. It made more sense when it was just in Italian. Good to see they've got a UK telephone booking line :roll:

I may be misunderstanding the current situation but aren't there now 5 operators on London - Stansted coach / minibus services?

Easybus
Terravision
National Express A6 and A9
Stansted Citylink
Airport Express

I'd be amazed if all of that is going to be sustainable long term although it's clear that three operators (the first three in my list) have been getting reasonable patronage for the last few years. I tend to see Nat Exp and Easybus vehicles fairly regularly.

 

[radamfi]

The easyBus service from Old Street has been cancelled at short notice. Note the URL of the link! You can still get easyBus tickets to travel on the National Express service from Victoria.

http://www.easybus.com/en/london-stansted/chaos-at-stansted

It is with regret that we have to announce that after 13 November 2015 the easyBus service operating between Stansted Airport and City (Old Street) will cease to operate.

We have made alternative arrangements for all passengers that have already bought tickets for this service with Airport Bus Express who are operating a service between Victoria, London Bridge (Monument), Stratford and Stansted Airport.

We will be contacting all passengers affected by this to provide them with detailed information regarding these arrangements; however, all easyBus tickets on this service will be honoured by the Airport Bus Express drivers.

We should like to apologise for any inconvenience this causes passengers and will have an alternative service on sale in the very near future.

 

[Mikey C]

I was overtaken by one of the Citylink buses yesterday evening on the North Circular, and I wasn't sticking to the 50mph limit either...
The NEx A6s tend to be driven quite aggressively as well, with the pressure to keep to schedule, I do wonder about driving standards...

 

[the101]

I was overtaken by one of the Citylink buses yesterday evening on the North Circular, and I wasn't sticking to the 50mph limit either...
The NEx A6s tend to be driven quite aggressively as well, with the pressure to keep to schedule, I do wonder about driving standards...

Not sure what room you have to comment on others' driving standards if you weren't observing the law yourself.

 

[Mikey C]

Not sure what room you have to comment on others' driving standards if you weren't observing the law yourself.

A slight difference of care between a solo individual in a car and a coach containing many passengers.

In an accident, the coach will do a lot more damage to other road users too

 

[the101]

A slight difference of care between a solo individual in a car and a coach containing many passengers.

In an accident, the coach will do a lot more damage to other road users too

As I said, if you choose not to observe the law yourself you don't have any room to pass judgement on what others are doing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A slight difference of care between a solo individual in a car and a coach containing many passengers.

Not really. Your car could cause a coach, or multiple coaches, to leave the road.

All drivers (and for that matter riders, cyclists and pedestrians) have a duty of care to themselves *and* everyone else around them on the roads. Whether they choose to neglect the former is on the face of it their problem, but unless it's 4am in the middle of nowhere, most likely there is another road user around, and as such you can't neglect one without neglecting the other.

 

[WestCoast]

I'm guessing Autostradale are not interested in selling tickets to non-Italian customers in advance with their website? It is quite possibly the worst website for a transport service I have ever seen. You select English and the booking engine reverts to Italian giving prices in Euros. On my tablet, the English came up as German!

 

[notadriver]

Not really. Your car could cause a coach, or multiple coaches, to leave the road.

All drivers (and for that matter riders, cyclists and pedestrians) have a duty of care to themselves *and* everyone else around them on the roads. Whether they choose to neglect the former is on the face of it their problem, but unless it's 4am in the middle of nowhere, most likely there is another road user around, and as such you can't neglect one without neglecting the other.

Of course there is a difference otherwise the pcv driving test wouldn't be harder than the car driving test.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not sure what room you have to comment on others' driving standards if you weren't observing the law yourself.

Thank god coaches have speed limiters. Drivers can't be trusted to obey speed limits.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If course there is a difference otherwise the pcv driving test wouldn't be harder than the car driving test.

There's a fair argument for them to be the same difficulty, but obviously in the vehicle appropriate to the category you are trying to get a licence for.

 

[the101]

Thank god coaches have speed limiters. Drivers can't be trusted to obey speed limits.

A speed limiter in a coach has zero relevance to whether drivers observe posted speed limits or not. It's even more so the case in a coach over 12m long, where the limiter's 100kph/62mph setting is actually higher than any speed the coach may legally travel at, as PCVs in this class are subject to a 60mph speed limit on motorways and dual carriageways.

 

[notadriver]

A speed limiter in a coach has zero relevance to whether drivers observe posted speed limits or not. It's even more so the case in a coach over 12m long, where the limiter's 100kph/62mph setting is actually higher than any speed the coach may legally travel at, as PCVs in this class are subject to a 60mph speed limit on motorways and dual carriageways.

Of course it has relevance - the reason they came into being is because of excessive speeding on motorways. Just so you know I am a coach driver myself ....