Carlisle Diverts NXEC

[andylloyd]

Hi all,
will there be any diverts this year via Tyne Valley into Carlisle?
If so has anyone got any dates?

Cheers

Andy

 

[Ascot]

http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/Travel-Information/Timetable-Alterations/?d=4&m=10&y=2008

 

[yorkie]

Starts Saturday 27 September. Possibly the last chance to get a Valenta up Beattock.

 

[me123]

Seems silly that they're not runnning to Glasgow, considering the WCML kinda goes up that way... Anyway, I'm looking forward to that at some point

Who's doing the driving; are NXEC training drivers for that or will other drivers come in?

 

[1D53]

Will be Nxec crewed, plenty of drivers sign the route.

 

[eezypeazy]

Now, here's an interesting conundrum...

Northern Rail's Hadrian's Wall Line Day Ranger Leaflet quite clearly states that this £14 all-day, jump-on jump-off ticket is "Valid on all Train Operating Companies’ services on the map shown."

But the National Rail website says that ticket is a Northern offer.

So which is right?

Never mind... if you get stuck at Carlisle waiting for a 142 when you wanted an HST, you can always cheer yourself up with a Free Jammy doughnut!

On a separate note - in previous years, there was a Cross Country movement - I think it was empty stock - anyway, on each Saturday in the autumn I saw a nine-car Voyager set eastbound at Blaydon at around 0810... anyone know if that is likely to run this year?

Regards

eezypeazy

 

[Techniquest]

Surely if the Hadrian's Wall ranger is valid on all TOCs this has to include NXEC. So long as they stop at both Newcastle and Carlisle to pick up and drop off (previous years have seen pick-up only I believe at Carlisle), and as it says it's valid on all TOCs then I'd see no reason for NXEC to not accept the ticket.

EDIT: As yorkie has already said, it'll be the last chance to get a Valenta up Beattock, which is truely an experience to behold for HST cranks. 039+095 last year was a brilliant performance in the not-too-good weather, I'd be happy to do that again!

 

[eezypeazy]

My point is that the Northern Rail leaflet and the National Rail website contradict each other!

(.. returns to thoughts of doughnuts...)

 

[Techniquest]

Indeed, I see and it is a valid point. But I'd definately argue, armed with a leaflet specifically saying that it says valid on all TOCs if I was told it was invalid!

It may be promoted by Northern but there's nothing to say 'Northern Trains Only' on it. Unless they print it on the ticket, then that's a whole new ball game.

 

[me123]

If you think about it, Northern are the only TOC to regualrly provide services on the line. I'd say to contact NXEC by e-mail beforehand to confirm that the ticket is valid, and maybe print of that reply if challenged on board? As said, the advertising does say "any TOC" so I don't see how NXEC could reject the ticket.

 

[andylloyd]

Now, here's an interesting conundrum...

Northern Rail's Hadrian's Wall Line Day Ranger Leaflet quite clearly states that this £14 all-day, jump-on jump-off ticket is "Valid on all Train Operating Companies’ services on the map shown."

But the National Rail website says that ticket is a Northern offer.

So which is right?

Never mind... if you get stuck at Carlisle waiting for a 142 when you wanted an HST, you can always cheer yourself up with a Free Jammy doughnut!

On a separate note - in previous years, there was a Cross Country movement - I think it was empty stock - anyway, on each Saturday in the autumn I saw a nine-car Voyager set eastbound at Blaydon at around 0810... anyone know if that is likely to run this year?

Regards

eezypeazy

Last year one evening witnessed a double headed vomit heading west through Wylam during the diversions, by god it did scream through there
(whilst sitting outside the Boathouse)
Cheers

Andy

 

[yorkie]

I'm not aware of GNER ever challenging Tyne Valley Rangers, I've used them myself, so I am sure the same applies.

First time I used one, I think it was 2004 or 2005, I asked for a ticket to Carlisle, I was sold a Tyne Valley Ranger by the GNER-run Travel centre, as it was cheaper (sadly the price has bumped up since then), GNER were running that way and giving free tea/coffee too! (the free drinks stopped in 2006 IIRC).

NCoC says that tickets are valid on any TOC unless shown otherwise on the ticket. So, when the ticket is printed, if it says "Any Permitted" and not "Northern only", it is valid.

 

[eezypeazy]

An examination of the timetables for the NEx diverted HSTs and the Northern Rail stopping services reveals some interesting observations. The 0625 HST ex NCL takes just an hour an a quarter to do the run to Carlisle. However, the 1725 departure takes a whopping 1 hour 47 minutes! That's because it seems to have been pathed to FOLLOW the Northern stopping 1724 departure to Hexham. Now, this local service makes the extra calls at Dunston and Blaydon; so, the HST (just a minute behind!) is inevitably going to be held at various signals, which I would bet includes the one just west of Blaydon Station, and very probably the Wylam signal and the semaphores at Prudhoe. Then, the 1724 Northern service is timetabled to take a whole 14 minutes to get from Corbridge to Hexham - trains usually take six minutes to do this. This implies that the service will be held in Hexham's loop - just short of Platform 2 - to allow the HST to pass - so, there's one for all you track-bashers to do! (You can hear the passengers for Hexham tutting in frustration already - they'll be able to see the platform, but be stuck on a train!).

Have fun!

eezypeazy

 

[yorkie]

I've been on trains that have arrived at Carlisle 20 mins before departure. In the next platform was a 156 to Newcastle leaving in 15 mins time, just before us!

I've also been on trains which have waited about 20 mins at Slateford for a Glasgow-Edinburgh (via Shotts) 156 to get ahead. The driver went to the buffet car and eating/drinking when the signal went to green, after about 5 mins of a green signal he went ahead at a fairly low speed, we still caught the 156 up before long.

Crazy timetabling.

 

[Guinness]

Usual Carlisle set down/pick up I take it?

 

[yorkie]

Usual Carlisle set down/pick up I take it?

Yep, a few years ago it was set down only heading north, and pick up only heading east at CAR, but for the past 2 years or so it just a normal call. This co-incided with the (very) cheap day return introduced by Virgin from CAR to EDB/GLC! NCL-CAR + CAR-EDB/GLC = a lot cheaper than the normal route via Berwick!!

 

[Guinness]

Cheers, hmm - it's tempting...

 

[me123]

About £20 or so, in fact hock: And, from Glasgow, you don't save that much time travelling via Berwick so there's not exactly a major time loss provided everything runs on time. Of course, the combination will be valid on the diversions anyway, which would save regular travellers a packet! However, I wonder how many will still buy the "direct" ticket :roll:

 

[djw1981]

Officially the NB NXEC service is drop only at Carlisle and the SB service is pick up only (to allow connection for Glasgow from Carlisle via VWC, rather than going via Edinburgh then FSR to Glasgow which would take a further hour), but given the infrequent TPE and VWC service from Edinburgh-Carlisle, no one stops you doing the Carlisle to Edinburgh bit on NXEC.

 

[yorkie]

Officially the NB NXEC service is drop only at Carlisle and the SB service is pick up only (to allow connection for Glasgow from Carlisle via VWC, rather than going via Edinburgh then FSR to Glasgow which would take a further hour), but given the infrequent TPE and VWC service from Edinburgh-Carlisle, no one stops you doing the Carlisle to Edinburgh bit on NXEC.

not any more! its been a normal call since 2007 at least. it was restricted in 2005 and I can't remember 2006.

 

[andylloyd]

I'm looking forward to these on the 4th October

 

[me123]

Random point, but would the CDR EDB-PRE be accepted on this train even with Route:Carlisle? Normally, this ticket does not permit travel via the Tyne Valley Line, but the SVR permits travel via the ECML with a change at York. With the ECML being closed, the "any permitted" tickets must be valid on the NXEC service via Carlisle, but then theoretically the CDR would allow travel down the ECML on the grounds that the NXEC made a stop at Carlisle.

I don't know if this is correct, but of it is, a lot of people could save some serious money...

 

[andylloyd]

Will Cross Country be diverting too this year?
Any ideas?

 

[yorkie]

Random point, but would the CDR EDB-PRE be accepted on this train even with Route:Carlisle?

obviously it is valid between EDB and CAR. are you asking if it is also valid via Newcastle? you'd need to consult the RG but I'd be surprised if it is!

 

[me123]

CAR-NCL is not on either map (ER or TP) but EDB-NCL is. My logic is that NXEC need to divert trains around via Carlisle to avoid the EDB-NCL closure. As a result, the train is travelling through and stopping at Carlisle. I was wondering if GLC-PRE via Carlisle would therefore be valid on the route. The "any permitted" route via York would still be valid and, with the diversions in place, the route now travels via Carlisle...

 

[yorkie]

CAR-NCL is not on either map (ER or TP) but EDB-NCL is. My logic is that NXEC need to divert trains around via Carlisle to avoid the EDB-NCL closure. As a result, the train is travelling through and stopping at Carlisle. I was wondering if GLC-PRE via Carlisle would therefore be valid on the route. The "any permitted" route via York would still be valid and, with the diversions in place, the route now travels via Carlisle...

Well this is possibly one of the best ticketing finds ever, as thetrainline says it's valid. I can potentially see some guards not accepting it though so my advice would be to book online and get reservations, that way it can't be refused. How about a forum meet on the first day, 27th September?

 

[djw1981]

Surely the EDB-PRE can only be used on NXEC from EDB to CAR, then TPE or VWC from CAR to PRE...so how does Tyne Valley fit into it?

The other obvious routes (given the lack of service EDB-CAR) for most of the time is EDB-GLC/GLQ then GLC-PRE, or EDB-Leeds-Hellifield-Preston, or Lees-Blackburn-Preston? Are these also allowed?

 

[me123]

It's simply EDB-YRK-PRE, which is perfectly valid on the any permitted ticket. However, with EDB-YRK trains stopping at Carlisle, the "via Carlisle" ticket must be accepted. However, as has been said, I'm sure some giards would be sceptical. If it was valid, though, it would save a hell of a lot of money for ECML travel, albeit only temporarily.

 

[yorkie]

My advice is that if anyone is considering doing this, that a CDR be purchased with reservations from NXEC's site. That then forms a contract.

 

[andylloyd]

My advice is that if anyone is considering doing this, that a CDR be purchased with reservations from NXEC's site. That then forms a contract.

So a Cheap Day Return will have route 'any permitted' then?

If thats the case I will be partaking in this!