First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[THarris123]

Some sightings in Bath this evening.

The Wells Dart 42968 on the 10 (unless it had been in BH for maintenance?)
The 14 had two deckers-30867 32349
47545 on 13 (first time I've seen a Streetlite on that route)

Plus 66939 on 17A in Keynsham

Those are good obs - I've never seen a Streetlite on 13 so that's quite a surprise. There's also a Streetlite - think 47546 (?) on 38 this evening - so I dread to think what's on 178/379.

Haven't seen deckers on 14 in a while so that's quite a surprise.

In Bristol nearly saw all the Urban E400s on X1/W1/X6 (just not 33547 and 33419). All the 54/55 reg B7s seem to be on X8/X9. Saw 66347 on 2 and 66335 not in service, but no other B7s. X39 seemed to be all 09 B9s. Also saw 42964 on 5 which is still in blank white (but now has adverts on). Oh and 32686 on X9.
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Indeed, especially the two Streetlites.

The Streetlites are normal now, but I haven't seen a Gemini on 70/71 in a while, especially when there's a Streetdeck in the bus station.

47548 on 38
32281 on 37

Also nice to see 66719 again - on X8. And someone's put graffiti on the back of 66937 - you never know it might get a repaint at last!

 

[CD]

When did the change go through to separate them? I started using the bus to Street September 2010 and they weren't connected then.

Early 2014.Think it was February.

My first through journey with a 59 plate B7RLE was 69436 Yeovil-Bristol on 11/10/2009.

 

[THarris123]

Early 2014.Think it was February.

Well in 2010 377 wasn't connected to 376, but 375 was interworking with it, then in 2012 379 changed and 375 and 377 were interworking with 376 to provide a 30 min service from Wells-Street. Then Webberbus started in Wells and First put in X75 2 hourly. Then in 2014 376 went to Street every 30 mins, along with 377 and X75 going hourly separate from 376 and 375 2 hourly. Then they changed it in August 15 to what it currently is. So when the B7s were introduced in 2009 the 377 was split (I'm fairly sure - it was definitely in 2010) until 2012. So that means that 377 was justified to have new singles in 2009 on its own.

I think the 377 justifies them more now - i'm sure passenger numbers are up on that route and considering that the B7s are now 6 years old I can't see any problem in it. 375 only would justify 59 B7s at peak for college work - nothing else really, as demand isn't as strong as 377.

I've always looked at it in this way:
Highest demand - 376
Then 173
174
126
377
375
Lowest demand - 161

The ones nearest the top should get the more modern vehicles (unless they struggle through narrow roads) and the ones at the bottom get the oldest stuff in Wells.

 

[Micro22]

53401 has been on the 174 most of the week, B7 on the 161 working, I'm led to believe this is due to the loadings on the 1545 service (full with Blue School scholars)
69437 in Wells Depot today.

 

[Whiteway215]

53401 has been on the 174 most of the week, B7 on the 161 working, I'm led to believe this is due to the loadings on the 1545 service (full with Blue School scholars)
69437 in Wells Depot today.

With 69437 seen in Wells and 42968 on the 10 in Bath today can we assume they've been swapped?

 

[vicbury]

With 69437 seen in Wells and 42968 on the 10 in Bath today can we assume they've been swapped?

Lots of oddities in Bath today:

• 5 - Dart
• 13 - Streetlite
• 14 - Three deckers (2x ALX400, 1x Gemini), 42968
• 15 - B9 Gemini
• X39 - short Streetlite
• 265 - Solar

Also had 42916 on the 14 which is abysmal. Why didn't it head east?!

 

[THarris123]

53401 has been on the 174 most of the week, B7 on the 161 working, I'm led to believe this is due to the loadings on the 1545 service (full with Blue School scholars)
69437 in Wells Depot today.

Yes that 161 does get very busy - it's probably the busiest 161.

Nice to see 69437 where it should be, but ashame they didn't swap it for the solo. If I have that sometime today, I will not be a happy bunny
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Lots of oddities in Bath today:

• 5 - Dart
• 13 - Streetlite
• 14 - Three deckers (2x ALX400, 1x Gemini), 42968
• 15 - B9 Gemini
• X39 - short Streetlite
• 265 - Solar

Also had 42916 on the 14 which is abysmal. Why didn't it head east?!

The B9 and solar aren't really rare, but the rest are quite rare. 42915/6 are appalling - precisely the reason why they didn't head to the East - the better ones headed there.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Finally got out and managed to hit the southern parts of Bristol yesterday, as opposed to the north where I stay all the time!

Got off the train at Temple Meads and had 33961 on the 2 to Cribbs Causeway. Then had 37590 all the way down to Hengrove. Had a nose around by the depot and saw 32088, 32345, 32637, 32941, 42961 and 47435. I also saw a V-FAE Dart with 36 on the display.

From Hengrove I decided to return on a different route and opted for the 90, which seeing as I am a fan of the Streetdecks made perfect sense. 35140 turned up and we made our way through Inns Court and Filwood Park into town. I did enjoy the views of the city on the way back but didn't see much of the views for very long. Still pleasant nonetheless.

Got off at the fountains and walked around the corner onto Baldwin Street, where I had 35108 on the 70 to UWE to meet my friend from work. On the return we just missed an X74 so we had 35103 on the 70 back to town. Had some food and she went back to Kingswood on 37337 on the 42. I made my way to Filton on the 75 and had 33560.

I did end up catching a 76 at about 1am this morning whilst going home from a night out. 32331 was my last bus for the day.

All in all, I had an Enviro 400MMC, a B9 Gemini, a B7 Gemini, three Streetdecks and an ordinary Enviro 400, so quite a nice mix yesterday!

Not sure what I'm doing today as I'm very hungover (in fact I don't even know why I'm up this early!)

 

[CD]

.

377 wasn't connected to 376 when the 59 plates were introduced.

This is what I was replying to and to when 376 and 377 ceased to be a through working.

 

[Private Baxter]

This is what I was replying to and to when 376 and 377 ceased to be a through working.

You're right, I think we've been over this once or twice but still...
When new EU laws came in to effect in September 2007 the 377 became a Wells to Yeovil service only (with no set connection in Wells) which lasted right up until April 2012 when the 379 started, and it became once again through workings Bristol to Yeovil, so it was obviously the former arrangement when the B7RLEs arrived in October 2009. Obviously First saw them fit to work 377 back then....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You're right, I think we've been over this once or twice but still...
When new EU laws came in to effect in September 2007 the 377 became a Wells to Yeovil service only (with no set connection in Wells) which lasted right up until April 2012 when the 379 started, and it became once again through workings Bristol to Yeovil, so it was obviously the former arrangement when the B7RLEs arrived in October 2009. Obviously First saw them fit to work 377 back then....

The change actually occurred in 2008 according to BVBG.

I guess my question is that there are 59 plates working the 375/377 and especially with the former, does it really financially justify those vehicles when routes like the 265/272/267 have older B7RLEs on there as do other routes like the 231?

Especially given that a few months ago, ancient B10s and Darts were considered sufficient.

Also, remember that the 376 got stuff like new Lynxes whilst the 163 made do with Bristol REs.

 

[Private Baxter]

With 69437 seen in Wells and 42968 on the 10 in Bath today can we assume they've been swapped?

Interesting. The dart might be more useful in Bath, considering they've just lost a few, and have a surplus of larger buses. But the flip side is do Wells really need another B7RLE?! I'm not complaining if it does turn out to be permanent!

The change actually occurred in 2008 according to BVBG.

I guess my question is that there are 59 plates working the 375/377 and especially with the former, does it really financially justify those vehicles when routes like the 265/272/267 have older B7RLEs on there as do other routes like the 231?

Especially given that a few months ago, ancient B10s and Darts were considered sufficient.

Also, remember that the 376 got stuff like new Lynxes whilst the 163 made do with Bristol REs.

It might have changed in 2008, but I suppose First were preparing for that early. Agree I am a little surprised about the B7RLEs as well, didn't seem a natural progression from 16/17 year old AXL darts, but again I think it has more to do with maintaining a strong looking Wells to Street corridor.

Traditionally 163 always made do with older stock, until late 2004 when 66716-26 arrived, taking over the 376/377, and introduced them to 163 as well when it had recently started interworking with the new half hourly 376, then some months later (May 2005) the two services were merged and the 375 was created. New kit was kept on this service until the extension of the 376 in 2014 when it was downgraded to B10s initially, then various darts.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Interesting. The dart might be more useful in Bath, considering they've just lost a few, and have a surplus of larger buses. But the flip side is do Wells really need another B7RLE?! I'm not complaining if it does turn out to be permanent!


It might have changed in 2008, but I suppose First were preparing for that early. Agree I am a little surprised about the B7RLEs as well, didn't seem a natural progression from 16/17 year old AXL darts, but again I think it has more to do with maintaining a strong looking Wells to Street corridor.

Traditionally 163 always made do with older stock, until late 2004 when 66716-26 arrived, taking over the 376/377, and introduced them to 163 as well when it had recently started interworking with the new half hourly 376, then some months later (May 2005) the two services were merged and the 375 was created. New kit was kept on this service until the extension of the 376 in 2014 when it was downgraded to B10s initially, then various darts.

BVBG says the change to 376 was May 2008.

You're right that it was the interworking that brought the B7s and newer kit to the 163 (375). It didn't justify before then and probably doesn't now unless your belief is right and that they're looking to improve things on the Wells to Street bit.

Interesting observations today

79: 47563
178/379: 66732, 63072/4
Wessex 1: 53plate decker
X8: 66938
51: 32941 - not unusual but still at HE

Muller Road - not exhaustive but the ones visible included:
66102/10/17/18/62/67/73
42703/5/11
42109 still there - been withdrawn for a while
Those Optare Excels - will they ever go?

 

[ValleyLines142]

47565 is also on the 79.

There was also an 06-reg Dart on the 44.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

47565 is also on the 79.

There was also an 06-reg Dart on the 44.

Sorry, it is 47565 - fat finger syndrome FFS!!!

 

[THarris123]

So the change to 376/377 in 2008 - were they interworking then? If they were then sorry - obviously when the B7s were introduced in 2009, they had to go on what 376 was on. But 376 and 377 definitely didn't interwork in September 2010 and only started interworking again in 2012 to then stop in 2014.

Anyway - the point is that 375 and 377 don't really justify the B7RLEs, but now they're 6 yearsold, I think it's justified. I would've preferred to see the 54 plate B7RLEs on those services, as well as 126.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So the change to 376/377 in 2008 - were they interworking then? If they were then sorry - obviously when the B7s were introduced in 2009, they had to go on what 376 was on. But 376 and 377 definitely didn't interwork in September 2010 and only started interworking again in 2012 to then stop in 2014.

Anyway - the point is that 375 and 377 don't really justify the B7RLEs, but now they're 6 yearsold, I think it's justified. I would've preferred to see the 54 plate B7RLEs on those services, as well as 126.

Without going round in circles, is it justified financially (rather than some other sense) to have 3 x 59 plates with f**k all passengers on south of Street on the 375? Meanwhile, the 231 and the WY routes have older B7s on busier routes and that they're also (231/267/272) experiencing competition on?

In bus terms, 6 yr old isn't old. It's not even mid life - especially with First! I really did expect the 173/4 to keep the 59 plates (perhaps 69442-8). Might've made more sense to send the others to Bath for WY o/s alongside the ex X39 Streetlites? 54 plates on the 126/375/377 would've been more likely but over the last few years, we've had more than a few surprises from FWoE.

 

[THarris123]

So my day:
Started off at Wells and experienced a beautiful morning, with some stunning scenes from the Mendips. Obs from Wells then:
376 35161/3/4/5/7 - had 7 to Wells and 1 back - saw 4 which looked really mucky from the back.
173 69448
161 53401
377 60912
375 69440

Then got home and went off to swap onto 379. That was 47547. Is it my imagination or has the voiceover system got louder? Saw my favourite 66732 at Paulton on 178 and then 42968 on 379. Then walked from Radstock to Frome (3 hours and brilliant on a day like today), just in time for 267 to Bath, which was 63071. Also saw 63077 on 267.

Got into Bath earlier than planned so explored some town routes. Firstly onto 1 to Weston - did the full route on 53809. I love those Solos - they're quick powerful and jumpy and are perfect for narrow roads (not 161 ). Then came back to Eastfield Avenue (pretty horrid place to get off I know) to swap onto 14 - which was 42907. It's a nice ride and the darts are fine for 14 - Streetlites would be a better fit though. Then onto the 4 to Kingsway - with 53814 - not one of the most pleasant of routes, but still fun on a solo. Quick walk then to Southdown Road to catch the 10. This was 50318, which isn't actually too bad on the 10 (which is a fairly nice route too). Then planned to catch 42905 on 14 to odd down and swap onto 174, but 32937 decided to break down just before the exit to the bus station, so caught the 174 (what i'm on now). Overall a very nice day. Here's a few obs:
265/272/267 65724/5/6/66734/66882/Streetlite Max/63071
10 42906, 57000, 50318
14 42903/4/5/7/15/16
5 66356/62242
37 47545
X39 B9s
38 mostly B9s, but also 32352
15 30867, 37764
1 53809/10/12
4 53814
178/379 66732/42968/47547/63074
319 32937/9
173 69438/43
174 69439

 

[CD]

Now that Wells has 14 B7RLEs that is enough to cover all the turns on 126/173/174/375 and 377. But today all three B7Ls were out 60912/14 on 377, 60913 on 375.
I was on 1446 375 from Bridgwater today with 69437(good to have it back), after Woolavington only two other passengers. As usual nobody got on or off around the villages,then 20 people at Street as 376 was late.

The biggest waste of vehicles was putting 5 year old B7RLEs on 7 in WSM in 2009.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Now that Wells has 14 B7RLEs that is enough to cover all the turns on 126/173/174/375 and 377. But today all three B7Ls were out 60912/14 on 377, 60913 on 375.
I was on 1446 375 from Bridgwater today with 69437(good to have it back), after Woolavington only two other passengers. As usual nobody got on or off around the villages,then 20 people at Street as 376 was late.

The biggest waste of vehicles was putting 5 year old B7RLEs on 7 in WSM in 2009.

The 7 does a very good trade though. Perhaps 55 plates would've made more sense with their bus seats.

 

[vicbury]

Then came back to Eastfield Avenue (pretty horrid place to get off I know) to swap onto 14 - which was 42907.

Quite. There's plenty of ruffians such as myself about! In all seriousness though, Eastfield Avenue isn't pretty but we have wonderful community spirit which is lacking across most of Bath.

And yes size and interior layout wise the Darts are ideal for the 14 although when I see Streetlites operating journeys on the 37 which were under threat three weeks ago I can't help but feel a little short changed. Likewise seeing an empty Streetlite on the 35 in Wick earlier was frustrating.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So my day:
Started off at Wells and experienced a beautiful morning, with some stunning scenes from the Mendips. Obs from Wells then:
376 35161/3/4/5/7 - had 7 to Wells and 1 back - saw 4 which looked really mucky from the back.
173 69448
161 53401
377 60912
375 69440

Then got home and went off to swap onto 379. That was 47547. Is it my imagination or has the voiceover system got louder? Saw my favourite 66732 at Paulton on 178 and then 42968 on 379. Then walked from Radstock to Frome (3 hours and brilliant on a day like today), just in time for 267 to Bath, which was 63071. Also saw 63077 on 267.

Got into Bath earlier than planned so explored some town routes. Firstly onto 1 to Weston - did the full route on 53809. I love those Solos - they're quick powerful and jumpy and are perfect for narrow roads (not 161 ). Then came back to Eastfield Avenue (pretty horrid place to get off I know) to swap onto 14 - which was 42907. It's a nice ride and the darts are fine for 14 - Streetlites would be a better fit though. Then onto the 4 to Kingsway - with 53814 - not one of the most pleasant of routes, but still fun on a solo. Quick walk then to Southdown Road to catch the 10. This was 50318, which isn't actually too bad on the 10 (which is a fairly nice route too). Then planned to catch 42905 on 14 to odd down and swap onto 174, but 32937 decided to break down just before the exit to the bus station, so caught the 174 (what i'm on now). Overall a very nice day. Here's a few obs:
265/272/267 65724/5/6/66734/66882/Streetlite Max/63071
10 42906, 57000, 50318
14 42903/4/5/7/15/16
5 66356/62242
37 47545
X39 B9s
38 mostly B9s, but also 32352
15 30867, 37764
1 53809/10/12
4 53814
178/379 66732/42968/47547/63074
319 32937/9
173 69438/43
174 69439

That's a good old walk - take it you went along the Colliers Way (the old rail line cycle path)? I can understand why it took you 3 hours and it's a lovely route - I have run it a lot of times Don't knock you for having a stroll though a little surprised you didn't maximise your Solo bashing and get the 414/424 to Frome (especially as the Saturday service probably won't survive April and the fares aren't bad)

The 178/379 had a right variety on there today with 63072 and 42939 also on there

BTW - Avatar information: checked the photo on my avatar and it is from January 2009. The Dart in front is 46241 (having worked the 377) and behind is 46253 (having worked the 126)

 

[1905 Group]

Just received confirmation that the current plan for the W reg ones is for them to move and be DDA converted - although note the word plan, as this means it could change. No guarantees about anything with First!

 

[freetoview33]

Just received confirmation that the current plan for the W reg ones is for them to move and be DDA converted - although note the word plan, as this means it could change. No guarantees about anything with First!

I guess it partly hinges on the bid for more double deckers. I think 130 was a bit of a cheeky bid. So depending on how many First get would depend on how many get converted to DDA.

It also depends on how much work they need to bring them into line (I have never got a clear answer about what work actually needs undertaking) I can't see these lasting too much longer as some are really showing there age!

 

[THarris123]

Just received confirmation that the current plan for the W reg ones is for them to move and be DDA converted - although note the word plan, as this means it could change. No guarantees about anything with First!

I think we'll see 32001-9 and 32011-5 converted (as they've been repainted). I really can't see the Tridents being converted - especially since the incident with 32937 yesterday.
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Quite. There's plenty of ruffians such as myself about! In all seriousness though, Eastfield Avenue isn't pretty but we have wonderful community spirit which is lacking across most of Bath.

And yes size and interior layout wise the Darts are ideal for the 14 although when I see Streetlites operating journeys on the 37 which were under threat three weeks ago I can't help but feel a little short changed. Likewise seeing an empty Streetlite on the 35 in Wick earlier was frustrating.

It's a CURO area which although I know is a bit rough, is alright really - as has been said on here before Bath has good bits and bad bits - i've always considered Twerton being one of the worst parts (having worked near there on and off).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's a good old walk - take it you went along the Colliers Way (the old rail line cycle path)? I can understand why it took you 3 hours and it's a lovely route - I have run it a lot of times Don't knock you for having a stroll though a little surprised you didn't maximise your Solo bashing and get the 414/424 to Frome (especially as the Saturday service probably won't survive April and the fares aren't bad)

The 178/379 had a right variety on there today with 63072 and 42939 also on there

BTW - Avatar information: checked the photo on my avatar and it is from January 2009. The Dart in front is 46241 (having worked the 377) and behind is 46253 (having worked the 126)

I've always liked that walk and tend to do it twice-three times a year. It's the colliers way I use and then turn off along Great Elm and head along the river. Very pleasant walk overall, but every time I walk along it I get angry about the derelict railway line and moan quite a bit about it - especially when I walk past the old brake van i've noticed that at Great Elm they're now pulling up the railway line for their missing link (the missing link I would've thought is the railway line ) and that's really p*ssed me off, especially when their bus services are on a knife edge to be cut and there's quite a few derelict shops in Frome now - surely they should focus on that rather than a ruddy cycle path. I'm well known for my long walks now - tend to do Bristol to Bath once/twice a year along the river, which is probably the most tiring walk I do.

Thanks for the bus numbers from your avatar too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think we'll see 32001-9 and 32011-5 converted (as they've been repainted). I really can't see the Tridents being converted - especially since the incident with 32937 yesterday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It's a CURO area which although I know is a bit rough, is alright really - as has been said on here before Bath has good bits and bad bits - i've always considered Twerton being one of the worst parts (having worked near there on and off).

What was the incident with 32937?

Haycombe Drive (Whiteway) and the Kensington flats are probably the liveliest spots in Bath but as always, there's good and bad in all areas. Having drunk in various pubs, the Full Moon in Twerton lives long in the memory!

 

[THarris123]

What was the incident with 32937?

Haycombe Drive (Whiteway) and the Kensington flats are probably the liveliest spots in Bath but as always, there's good and bad in all areas. Having drunk in various pubs, the Full Moon in Twerton lives long in the memory!

Broke down at the bus station exit, holding up vehicles for about 20 mins - then slowly drifted
out of the bus station to sit outside like a bad child on the naughty step.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think we'll see 32001-9 and 32011-5 converted (as they've been repainted). I really can't see the Tridents being converted - especially since the incident with 32937 yesterday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It's a CURO area which although I know is a bit rough, is alright really - as has been said on here before Bath has good bits and bad bits - i've always considered Twerton being one of the worst parts (having worked near there on and off).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I've always liked that walk and tend to do it twice-three times a year. It's the colliers way I use and then turn off along Great Elm and head along the river. Very pleasant walk overall, but every time I walk along it I get angry about the derelict railway line and moan quite a bit about it - especially when I walk past the old brake van i've noticed that at Great Elm they're now pulling up the railway line for their missing link (the missing link I would've thought is the railway line ) and that's really p*ssed me off, especially when their bus services are on a knife edge to be cut and there's quite a few derelict shops in Frome now - surely they should focus on that rather than a ruddy cycle path.

To reinstate that rail line would cost a fortune. It'll never happen - not as if the 414 is exactly busy and will doubtless lose its Saturday service after the consultation. The only reason the line is there is for Whatley Quarry and the derelict part was only to serve Writhlington and Kilmersdon Collieries and they closed in 1974.

The money for the cycle path is coming from private donations and from Sustrans so it's not diverting funds from elsewhere. The idea of being able to cycle or run into Frome without experiencing Egford Hill is quite appealing!! As for Frome having a few closed shops, I think it's in better shape than many places and is a lot better than 20 years ago when it was more brawling than bohemian!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Broke down at the bus station exit, holding up vehicles for about 20 mins - then slowly drifted
out of the bus station to sit outside like a bad child on the naughty step.

Could be something minor like a hose off. Think it'll be too old anyway. Expect it in Alpha Recovery in a years time

 

[ValleyLines142]

Fair play to you for doing a 3 hour walk!

I jumped on the 75 from Primark to the Fountains the other day

 

[baza585]

Just received confirmation that the current plan for the W reg ones is for them to move and be DDA converted - although note the word plan, as this means it could change. No guarantees about anything with First!

I'd imagine that non-compliant B7TLs will be individually assessed and PSVAR converted where they are not too sh*gged.

I doubt any more older Tridents will be converted (eg the W reg ELC bodied sheds FHD inherited from Brizzle). However many ex London Tridents were PSVAR converted when they left the smoke, so some of these may linger on beyond 1/1/17, though how reliable they will be by then is another debate............