Which trains for Liverpool-Norwich

[MCR247]

Which train do you think?? Class 158, 159, 170, 175, 180, 185, 220/221/222 or anything else

 

[Coxster]

Have all of those classes even been cleared for the entire route?

 

[Gizmogle]

222s definately haven't.

 

[MCR247]

No I meant if they could and you could choose. sorry for lack of information.

 

[Urobach]

I thought 222's had?

 

[MCR247]

222 005 i think it was ran to Liverpool without passengers i think

 

[Gizmogle]

Could have sworn they hadn't...

 

[Aureol]

I thought 222's had?

222s have only yet been cleared for the Nottingham - Liverpool Lime Street section of the route.
This then allows us to make the following list of assumptions:
158s are currently used on the route by East Midlands Trains, alongside 156s and 153s, therefore 159s would most likely be cleared for the route as they are basically rebuilt 158s.
170s are cleared for the route as they used to be used in the days of Central Trains.
Don't know about 175s or 180s as neither Central Trains nor East Midlands Trains have had any in their stock pools.
As said above, so far 222s are only cleared for a certain portion of the Liverpool - Norwich route, thus ruling out 220s and 221s, and also the Transpennine 185s which are have essentially the same dimensions as a 22x anyway, despite them being a little bit slimmer and lower, though only by a centimetre or two, I also believe they have a higher axle loading too, which I believe is one of the main reasons for the 222s being unable to work certain parts of the route.

Could be wrong though, I usually am

 

[Mintona]

A 222 went to Ely for sure the other day, might have been as far as Norwich, but definitely as far as Ely. Just for clearance, similar to the Liverpool run a few weeks back.

Should be 158s, with 158x2 in the peak.

 

[332 > 444]

185s would be good for this route. With 4 carriages of course!

 

[Coradia]

The large problem with a 4 car 222 on this route is that it has similar (if not less) standard class capacity than a 3 car 170, would defeat the whole object, and do we really need FC on this route. To be honest if the 158s were cleaned out and refurbished (as currently happening) but they were combined more often they wouldt be so bad. I think a 4 car 158 in refurb EMT standard may suit this very well and be a nice change.

 

[MCR247]

when i made this post it was meant to be like what if? you could choose and they could all run the route

 

[222001]

If I was in charge I would order a new build of 23 4-car Class 172s to displace the Class 158s on to the routes which currently have 156s and 153s. This would attract a lot of new passengers as they would enjoy the better travelling experience and the fact that they would be able to get a seat.

 

[Kneedown]

Just to clarify, as an EMT Driver, 222's have now been cleared from Liverpool, right through to Norwich.

222's would certainly be an improvement on 158's on this route, which are completely inadequate for the capacity issues and distance, however there are not enough 222's spare to form a reasonable service.
I still feel that the ideal stock would be 180's due to the five car capacity which is urgently needed, better acceleration than a 158, and higher top end speed which can be exploited between Grantham - Peterboro, as well as the HST differential speeds on the MML stretch.
The only thing better than a 180 would be to get the wires up and build a leccy version!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If I was in charge I would order a new build of 23 4-car Class 172s to displace the Class 158s on to the routes which currently have 156s and 153s. This would attract a lot of new passengers as they would enjoy the better travelling experience and the fact that they would be able to get a seat.

Trouble is, a 172 is designed for short distance commuter work and is nothing more than a modified 170. 170's were an improvement on 158's, but still inadequate for the route with cramped cabs, slow acceleration, and general unreliability in many areas.
If 180's aren't available, then a completely new design should be commisioned, with full size cabs (width and depth) 110mph minimum speed, ability to take both Sprinter and HST speed differentials, and greatly improved passenger comfort.
Merely making do with an existing design that has been bodged and altered to meet a specification is a recipe for disaster, and gets nobody anywhere in the long run.
How about Alsthom, or whoever has the blueprints now, coming up with a lightweight version of the 180, or Bombardier a lightweight 222? Something designed for long routes that can take all speed diff's and do at least 110 with Crew and Passengers in comfort!

 

[222001]

How about Alsthom, or whoever has the blueprints now, coming up with a lightweight version of the 180, or Bombardier a lightweight 222? Something designed for long routes that can take all speed diff's and do at least 110 with Crew and Passengers in comfort!

The idea of a light-weight 222 sounds good. I'm sure Bombardier could do it with some sort of light-weight bogies and engines. The only reason I didn't say 222s in the first place was because the weight would cause problems in certain areas with speed limits.
I always feel sorry for drivers of 158s; the cab looks tiny!

 

[MCR247]

I always feel sorry for drivers of 158s; the cab looks tiny!

 

[Coradia]

when i made this post it was meant to be like what if? you could choose and they could all run the route

OK I get you, on the basis that I had complete power over the route, stock and everything. I would put a 180s on there. Lets have something a bit more powerful on the Hope Valley for a change .

 

[me123]

If they were available, 175s or 170s would be my choice. 3 car trains, of course, and doubled where necessary. Of course, they would have to be available. I'm sad to see that they didn't get the 180s, however, as even a few of these would be extremely successful in increasing capacity where it's needed.

 

[Pumbaa]

Electrify the route, along with the remainder of the TPE routes, and a new batch of AC versions of 460s. 110mph capable as well, as a minimum. If they use the traction packages off the Pendos, then all is well, as the Pendos shift quickly!

 

[class 313]

222s definately haven't.

Tests are finished IIRC...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just to clarify, as an EMT Driver, 222's have now been cleared from Liverpool, right through to Norwich.

Thought so, so tests are now complete?

 

[Guinness]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned 9 Car HST Sets with Valentas of course..

 

[P156KWJ]

where would we get the HSTs from though? none spare! 222s would be good, as well as 180s. 175s and 185s would be pointless, especially the 2 car 175s, as you might as well keep the 158s!

 

[rockstar676]

Class 360's

 

[P156KWJ]

find me some cable and OHLE posts and then NO

 

[class 313]

find me some cable and OHLE posts and then NO

when i made this post it was meant to be like what if? you could choose and they could all run the route

 

[P156KWJ]

I knew that

In that case, 390 drags

 

[Aureol]

I knew that

In that case, 390 drags

Lordz, a 390 on my local

 

[Phoenix]

wasn't the 223's supposed to be cleared to Norwich soon I remember this news as it was the first sign of the great eastern becoming well rubbish!!!

 

[me123]

wasn't the 223's supposed to be cleared to Norwich soon I remember this news as it was the first sign of the great eastern becoming well rubbish!!!

Yes, those 223s are abysmal trains...

I'm sorry, have I missed something?

 

[class 313]

222s are cleared for that line.