Full Virgin Timetable to Start

[xtradj]

on Feb 16th, 3 weeks late.. but now ready to begin on monday.. meaning of course the now hourly Chester - Euston service can begin

also a rumour that because of this, and a shortage of pendos, some off peak Euston - Bham services will be run by 5 car 221 voyagers until March 6th

 

[yorkie]

Does this mean the 90 will run this Friday? It's been 2xVoyager recently.

 

[Chafford1]

Plus the fast 16.30 Euston to Glasgow in 4 hours 10 minutes.

 

[Danielo]

on Feb 16th, 3 weeks late.. but now ready to begin on monday.. meaning of course the now hourly Chester - Euston service can begin

also a rumour that because of this, and a shortage of pendos, some off peak Euston - Bham services will be run by 5 car 221 voyagers until March 6th

Does that mean from March 7th, Virgin will get new Pendolinos?

 

[D306]

also a rumour that because of this, and a shortage of pendos, some off peak Euston - Bham services will be run by 5 car 221 voyagers until March 6th

correct. Saw a sign in MKC about it earlier

 

[Pumbaa]

Does that mean from March 7th, Virgin will get new Pendolinos?

Nope - their on order. 4 new ones, as well as extending 31 of their existing Pendos to 11 cars, with the option to lengthen the rest of them nearer the time. Meant to be done by 2012 when the franchise is up for re-let.

 

[me123]

Will the 4 new trains allow them to run Glasgow-London hourly throughout the day?

 

[MCR247]

Sorry to wander slightly off topic but....
Is there still one Holyhead Pendo drag?
If so when does it run?

 

[Pumbaa]

Will the 4 new trains allow them to run Glasgow-London hourly throughout the day?

I don't think they have plans for that - at Glasgow station in October, one of the management team was on the concourse. He mentioned that they were planning to run it hourly during peaks, with an "express" (like the 1630) chucked in between two, whilst keeping off-peak near to hourly as possible, but it wasn't possible, as the new fTPE services meant took extra traffic off the intermediate stations, and the market only existed London - Preston/Lanacster and Preston/Lancaster/Carlisle - Glasgow, which was already catered by the SuperVoyager services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry to wander slightly off topic but....
Is there still one Holyhead Pendo drag?
If so when does it run?

Yup Sundays I think - to maintain knowledge in case of a SuperVoyager being unavailable.

 

[voyagerdude220]

also a rumour that because of this, and a shortage of pendos, some off peak Euston - Bham services will be run by 5 car 221 voyagers until March 6th

0620 Rugby - Euston
0803 Euston - New Street
0950 New Street - Euston
1143 Euston - New Street
1330 New Street - Euston
1523 Euston - Wolves
1745 Wolves - Euston
2003 Euston - Wolves

This is the formentioned diagram which is being covered by a Super Voyager until Friday March 6th, causing mass overcrowding on most of the above services, especially the Rugby-Euston, and the 09:50 New Street to Euston, which is the first 'off peak' service..

 

[me123]

I don't think they have plans for that - at Glasgow station in October, one of the management team was on the concourse. He mentioned that they were planning to run it hourly during peaks, with an "express" (like the 1630) chucked in between two, whilst keeping off-peak near to hourly as possible, but it wasn't possible, as the new fTPE services meant took extra traffic off the intermediate stations, and the market only existed London - Preston/Lanacster and Preston/Lancaster/Carlisle - Glasgow, which was already catered by the SuperVoyager services.

Seems odd to me; if there's no market, why is it hourly at the weekends? :?

 

[Pumbaa]

Seems odd to me; if there's no market, why is it hourly at the weekends? :?

Same could be said for NXEC - half-hourly at some points from Edinburgh.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And plus - all other services are dramatically scaled back on the network otherwise. Incidentally, I've only used the Glasgow service thrice at weekends, and it's always been fairly busy, but no more than usual.

 

[me123]

I wouldn't want the other services to be cut back (AIUI, they need the capacity more than Glasgow), but I would have thought 4 Pendos would ensure more runs to Glasgow? I'd have thought that the 1030 and 1430 would have a decent demand!

 

[Pumbaa]

I wouldn't want the other services to be cut back (AIUI, they need the capacity more than Glasgow), but I would have thought 4 Pendos would ensure more runs to Glasgow? I'd have thought that the 1030 and 1430 would have a decent demand!

Apparently not - also another thought. Virgin have considerably increased their fares on the Glasgow route, perhaps an initiative to try and price people off their routes, so they can cut services? It's worked for me - I use NXEC to get to Scotland now, despite being a good hour longer.

 

[me123]

Hmm... interesting that they don't seem to want to serve Glasgow. Well, makes sense as it's so far "out of the way" compared to the rest of the network. But I think they're missing huge potential; they've cut 45 minutes off the journey time which makes it very appealing; it's quicker for me to go Virgin than by plane now to London. I'm in the West End just now, but the same also applies for travel from Coatbridge.

Well, I'm not sure if it is quicker, but it's not worth the hastle flying anymore.

 

[First ScotRail]

Virgin prices from London-Glasgow have increased ALOT! Both First class and standard fares are much dearer than NX now. Its stupid, VT want the trains filled but they put the prices up, come the summer mostly all VT's south of GLC are very busy. The fare first class to Euston is now £45 first and £22ish standard at cheapest. However the number of trains with seats allox with those amounts must have reduced or something as they are so hard to find. However VT can offer brilliant deals from Birmingham and Manchester...it doesnt add up!

 

[glynn80]

Virgin prices from London-Glasgow have increased ALOT! Both First class and standard fares are much dearer than NX now. Its stupid, VT want the trains filled but they put the prices up, come the summer mostly all VT's south of GLC are very busy. The fare first class to Euston is now £45 first and £22ish standard at cheapest. However the number of trains with seats allox with those amounts must have reduced or something as they are so hard to find. However VT can offer brilliant deals from Birmingham and Manchester...it doesnt add up!

Well it depends what fares you are talking about.

The Standard Anytime Returns for London to Edinburgh and London to Glasgow is the same at £271.00

The First Anytime Returns for London to Edinburgh is £379.00 whereas London to Glasgow is £409.00- this could however be justified by the extra complimentary service seen in Virgin's first class.

There isn't really a direct comparison available on Off Peak Returns as the fares on the two routes have different timing restrictions but Virgin's fare, which is more restrictive on the outward (only valid after 0905 from Euston) but has the same return restriction of valid after 1005 on the return, is considerably cheaper at £108.80 than NXEC's £168.00. However NXEC does have a Super Off Peak Return at £108.80 and this is more restrictive than Virgin's fare at the same price. So on Off Peak Returns its fair to say Virgin are cheaper

With Advance fares Virgin's cheapest is £12.00 single whereas NXEC's is £16.50 and in First Class Virgin's cheapest is £52.00 and NXEC's £47.50 but again Virgin's First Class is superior to NXEC's. On the upper end of the scale Virgin's most expensive Advance fare is £109.00 and NXEC's is £125.00, in First Class Virgin's is £172.50 and NXEC's is £174.50. So on balance I'd say that Virgin is cheaper on 3 out of the 4 categories and thus is cheaper overall (although this has no relevance to quotas on various trains).

So in my opinion Virgin's fares are equal or perhaps even less than those of the NXEC on the East Coast. If they have risen sharply this year or last that was only to bring it into line with East Coast as they seem pretty equal at the moment.

 

[ukrob]

Sorry to wander slightly off topic but....
Is there still one Holyhead Pendo drag?
If so when does it run?

Yup Sundays I think - to maintain knowledge in case of a SuperVoyager being unavailable.

It was Saturdays... and has been ditched.

 

[crewmeal]

This is the formentioned diagram which is being covered by a Super Voyager until Friday March 6th, causing mass overcrowding on most of the above services, especially the Rugby-Euston, and the 09:50 New Street to Euston, which is the first 'off peak' service.

Mass overcrowding is the norm with Virgin, nothing changes (apart from fare increases), still the same poor service, standing room only, rude and unhelpful staff, along with the usual delays on the WCML

 

[devon_metro]

Is it just me that thinks the 1630 Euston - Preston - Glasgow is a little bit pointless? One intermediate stop!

Especially considering that there are services at 1530, 1630, 1657, 1730, 1757, 1830 and 1930 all to Glasgow at peak times.

 

[First ScotRail]

or the contrary, i think it will be very popular especially with business people going to glasgow. A great quick service, getting into GLC at 2040.

 

[me123]

I'm sure the businessmen will like it, and it could also be well used by people going on a holiday/short break to London. The one intermediate stop (IIRC only needed for crew change) makes the journey seem a lot faster as well as actually being faster, and will be the most attractive option for most people; and it's at a perfect time.

 

[Danielo]

I am glad that Virgin have finally got things together on the WCML. I've been using the line everyday since 1991 (well the harrow - euston bit), and I have seen the improvements first hand over the years. I remember the junctions being replaced either side of H&W, and the new one being installed just south of South Kenton all those years ago. I remember Virgin taking over with 86s, 97s, 90s and their new colour schemes. I remember seeing the first Pendolino and thinking 'Oh my god - finally a sleek, state of the art train!'

It is just a great shame that they never managed to get the full speed of 140mph, but nonetheless I'm pleased for them that they've played a part in turning the WCML around.

 

[djw1981]

I did Virgin Glasgow to London for £7.20 each way 2 weeks ago (YPR applies).

The original VHF document stated that they would run hourly, and are in fact only Pendo short...but who knows what 2012 will bring.

 

[Chilled Phill]

Don't think the commuters of South Cheshire have: 3-5 months of blockades and only a couple of stations will actually benefit from the improved line. Great.(!) :roll:

 

[350401]

Don't think the commuters of South Cheshire have: 3-5 months of blockades and only a couple of stations will actually benefit from the improved line. Great.(!) :roll:

Not to mention the pretty drastic reduction in local train services on the line south of Alderley Edge - effective reduction from 2/3 tph to 1tph. Furthermore, some of the smaller stations now have a pretty useless rush hour service. The cancellation of the main 08.15 / 08.20 commuter train at Goostrey/Chelford being a very good example of this - the train still runs but skips these stations due to being followed by an express train shortly after.

I know it may be defended in terms of the 'greater good' and all that, but surely having the express train arrive 5 minutes earlier due to not waiting is not sufficient justification to axe vital services - both stations get around 23,000 users per year (using 04/05 figures - pre blockade).

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but felt that Phil raised a valid point i should elaborate on!

 

[87015]

Not to mention the pretty drastic reduction in local train services on the line south of Alderley Edge - effective reduction from 2/3 tph to 1tph. Furthermore, some of the smaller stations now have a pretty useless rush hour service. The cancellation of the main 08.15 / 08.20 commuter train at Goostrey/Chelford being a very good example of this - the train still runs but skips these stations due to being followed by an express train shortly after.

I know it may be defended in terms of the 'greater good' and all that, but surely having the express train arrive 5 minutes earlier due to not waiting is not sufficient justification to axe vital services - both stations get around 23,000 users per year (using 04/05 figures - pre blockade).

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but felt that Phil raised a valid point i should elaborate on!

Same issue up and down the WCML and associated routes...Progress apparently.

 

[First ScotRail]

The original VHF document stated that they would run hourly, and are in fact only Pendo short...but who knows what 2012 will bring.

I hope Virgin keep west coast, they have improved so much over their franchise and it would be such a shame to lose such a well known name from the network, as much as i am a fan of First, a First or NX takeover of West Coast would not be right in my opinion with the huge investment VT have made. The supreme service them now offer is in my opinion the best in the UK.

 

[350401]

Indeed. What I cannot understand is how an extra 1 or 2 trains per hour can led to whole swathes of local services being cancelled. Were the lines really that heavily loaded before that such cancellations were needed?

Or is it simply local TOCs using VTs new services as an excuse to cancel less profitable trains? (I know in the Northern area, the every time the TOC changes, they try to reduce the service provision of Chelford/Goostrey - FNW tried to do it a few years back through having most off-peak trains skip - such trains ran only at 10.19, 12.19, 13.19 and 17.19 if memory serves me right. Needless to say, it didn't go down well and hourly service was quickly resumed).

 

[Chilled Phill]

I think it's safe to say Northern are more than a step up from FNW, particularly looking at the reliability records of the 323 fleet now than FNW: It's almost 3x the miles-per casualty, they last on average three times as long before breaking down, than FNWs was.

However, I don't think Northern would cancel services along our route as it's rather profitable, even in our part thanks mostly to the passenger demands at Sandbach and Holmes Chapel although Goostrey and Chelford come into the equation as well.