MML Electrification: progress updates

[adamedwards]

I would assume that any fleet of IEPs would be a complete replacement of all the MML trains, as this seems to be what happens in other franchises.

The Meridians then go to Cross Country to enable a much needed expansion of stock to cope with demand and probable replacement of the HSTs. Whether this could be done by swapping round the cars I don't know (but having some modern tadpole units might be fun!) but I could see it being useful to keep some 7 car units for some services as a half way between 5 and 10 cars.

This assumes Cross Country don't got for tri-mode IEPs for Manchester to Bournemouth.

 

[richieb1971]

I thought it was clear by the announcement that they were talking about technology not yet proven, but at the latter stages of theorizing.

If thats the case I am sure any bi mode trains will transfer power on the fly. Why would it be of concern anyway? I am sure the transition will be seamless.


On my facebook page there is a major concern about EMT delivering the same amount of services to Bedford that they do now. In the event of northbound stopping trains not going further than Kettering (thameslink), they are not too happy about the change that will be required at Kettering to get to places such as Leicester.

Although I have no proof that EMT services will diminish. If the 4 track re-opening happens with 100mph running on all 4 tracks I can't see any reason why parallel running cannot happen.

 

[Flying Phil]

Despite the sad news re Electrification of the MML, the work is continuing on the Bedford - Kettering - Corby section so what is the current situation? Also, has the power substation, planned to be at Braybrooke, been cancelled now?

 

[snowball]

Also, has the power substation, planned to be at Braybrooke, been cancelled now?

It would make more sense to go ahead with it and add an "extension lead" ((C) Joseph Locke) from it to Glendon Junction. Very possibly one was planned already.

Web investigation suggests that the northernmost existing feeder point is at Sundon, just north of Luton. The Braybrooke feeder may well be necessary, or at least highly desirable, just for Kettering/Corby.

 

[InTheEastMids]

It would make more sense to go ahead with it and add an "extension lead" ((C) Joseph Locke) from it to Glendon Junction. Very possibly one was planned already.

Web investigation suggests that the northernmost existing feeder point is at Sundon, just north of Luton. The Braybrooke feeder may well be necessary, or at least highly desirable, just for Kettering/Corby.

According to a recent Tweet by HFM (Harborough community radio), the Braybrooke substation will go ahead. They don't reveal a source, but don't seem likely to assert something like this with no evidence.

 

[Chester1]

Roger Ford outlined various options for EMT fleet replacement in the latest edition of Modern Railways. I think the most interesting was to build new carriages to replace the Mark IIIs but be intially hauled by 43s. There will be plenty of spare 43s soon so loco hauled sets could potentially replace the Merdians too. It would buy time for a 125mph electric and diesel bi mode to be built or for electrification to restart in several years time. Has the government said the franchise ITT will specify bi modes or just new stock? I don't think that most passengers would notice or care if the 43s stayed. Are modern carriages significantly lighter than Mark IIIs?

 

[eastwestdivide]

... Has the government said the franchise ITT will specify bi modes or just new stock? ...

The consultation doc that I downloaded (east-midlands-rail-franchise-public-consultation.pdf) says

we will require the next operator to come forward with plans for modern, fast, efficient and comfortable trains for the Midland Main Line, including a brand new fleet of bi-mode intercity trains able to run on both electrified and non-electrified lines.

 

[38Cto15E]

The 1955 HST from St Pancras is non stop to Leicester in 66 minutes, the 1657 Meridian is 63 minutes, so I guess with lighter coaches the HST could save a couple of minutes and not be far off Meridian timings, obviously the Meridian is better on the stopping services.

 

[delticdave]

Roger Ford outlined various options for EMT fleet replacement in the latest edition of Modern Railways. I think the most interesting was to build new carriages to replace the Mark IIIs but be intially hauled by 43s. There will be plenty of spare 43s soon so loco hauled sets could potentially replace the Merdians too. It would buy time for a 125mph electric and diesel bi mode to be built or for electrification to restart in several years time. Has the government said the franchise ITT will specify bi modes or just new stock? I don't think that most passengers would notice or care if the 43s stayed. Are modern carriages significantly lighter than Mark IIIs?

Ian Walmsley rather than Roger Ford?
Writing in his "Pan Up" column, with his tongue firmly in his cheek....

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Ian Walmsley rather than Roger Ford?
Writing in his "Pan Up" column, with his tongue firmly in his cheek....

agreed - that was my read too

 

[Chester1]

Ian Walmsley rather than Roger Ford?
Writing in his "Pan Up" column, with his tongue firmly in his cheek....

Yes sorry Ian Walmsley. I thought the S&C idea and the T cars were for a laugh but new carrriages and old locos isn't a bad idea for the medium term!

 

[squizzler]

I agreed with the thrust of the proposal to use coaching stock. Re-using Class 43 was genius IMO. I did reckon that new intercity coaches should take the opportunity to be 26m not 23m to enable one-for-one replacement to still offer materially increased accommodation. Could his aspiration for light weight be met by a stretched and further optimised version of the CAF TPE coaches running inside frame bogies?

 

[Class 170101]

Class 43 power cars and Mark IV coaches anyone?

 

[edwin_m]

Class 43 power cars and Mark IV coaches anyone?

Mk4s are heavier than Mk3s so such a combination would have poorer performance than the existing sets, not to mention the incompatible systems for supplying hotel power. The proposal was for a new lightweight trailer car that could initially be formed between HST power cars and later incorporated into EMU sets with new-build cars of similar type but with underfloor motors.

 

[Chester1]

Class 43 power cars and Mark IV coaches anyone?

I suggested that a few months back and they are not compatible without being mostly rewired and despite being younger than Mark IIIs they are not in significantly better condition. A variant of Mark Vs or a Mark VI built for the purpose would be better.

 

[richieb1971]

It looks like the trees have been pinned back a bit at Souldrop. Looks like perhaps some preliminary work has been done to allow 4 tracking. I don't remember this area being this clear 6 months ago.

 

[Flying Phil]

Nice picture Richieb - thanks for the update.

 

[richieb1971]

Taken today around 16:30.

This concludes the beginning of the southern end of the 4 tracking implementation.


Same view (fast line side of the bridge though) from the original 4 tracking.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7036/6893585779_31432d741d_b.jpg

 

[edwin_m]

I hope they're going to lay the rest of it in rather bigger chunks than that!

 

[Mugby]

That's a beautiful picture of a bygone age in your link richieb1971 many thanks!

 

[Flying Phil]

As travellers on the MML through Loughborough will have noticed, there is construction work going on alongside the line at the South end of the station. These are the abutments for the new (Electrification compliant....) bridge that will carry the preserved Great Central Railway across the MML. The concrete work has been finished, steelwork will top them off very soon and, with line possession overnight on a Saturday, the bridge deck will be craned into position during (early/mid?) September. (There is a full build thread on this in the Preservation/railtours section).

 

[Class 170101]

But I bet by the time the MML is finally wired here the bridge will have to be raised further as standards will have got tighter by then.

 

[RichmondCommu]

But I bet by the time the MML is finally wired here the bridge will have to be raised further as standards will have got tighter by then.

You may well be right as I can't see the entire route being electrified in the next 40 years. There appears to be no political appetite to do it from either the Conservatives or Labour.

 

[QueensCurve]

But I bet by the time the MML is finally wired here the bridge will have to be raised further as standards will have got tighter by then.

Excepting that some reports are that a sense of pragmatism is reentering the wiring clearance standards.

 

[92002]

Excepting that some reports are that a sense of pragmatism is reentering the wiring clearance standards.

Given a couple of years Brexit will have kicked in. We will have left the EC and make our own rules again.

Now that will save lots of cash and unnecessary work.

 

[Chester1]

Once a new fleet of bi modes have been introduced it will kill the prospect of electrification between Kettering and Clay Cross for a very long time. Its plausible that the wires south of Kettering could be upgraded over time to support 125mph but thats probably it. If electrification continues in England and Wales after 2022 (presuming TP electrification still happens), its most like to take place in South Wales or the city regions with Combined Authorities were devolved bodies could share some of the financial risk and reward with NR.

 

[Flying Phil]

Well the reunification of the GC is now "future proofed" as the main bridge deck beams are in place across the MML.

Re the actual electrification of the MML, what is the possibility of progressively installing OHLE on the "easy" open sections of the line, and put non live or 6.25kV, where clearances are reduced? Then the Bi Modes could be running much more as electric only, with cost/environment benefits.
So it is "Creeping Electrification" rather than big bang, whole route or nothing.

 

[class26]

At a recent Dft seminar on the EM new franchise it was stated that the service was not to be any worse (ie slower) by using bi modes when compared to the present diesel service or full electrification. To that I then asked the question about the speed from Bedford south under electric as presently the wires are only fit for 100 mph whereas diesel can go at higher speeds. The Dft representative answered that the wires between St P and Bedford definitely WOULD be made fit for 125 mph running

 

[snowball]

The Dft representative answered that the wires between St P and Bedford definitely WOULD be made fit for 125 mph running

Did he/she say anything about timescale?

 

[class26]

Did he/she say anything about timescale?

No, but the context was that using bi modes ie on electric between Bedford and St P would be no slower than the present diesel service which currently runs over 100 mph in places. In that context I take the inference that when the bi modes are introduced the knitting would be suitable for 125 mph.