Consumer Rights

[shredder1]

Just looking for a bit of advice, I bought a Gortex Berghaus Hillwalker coat from Go Outdoors in Manchester in October 2018, it wasnt a particulary expensive one at £155, I`ve not really worn it that much, but over Christmas notice the zipper was coming away from the material, so I took it back on 1st January 2018, hoping to get a replacement or refund. I was however amazed that the store manager refused to give me a replacement or refund, despite agreeing that the garment had a fault and said that they would send it back to Berghaus for repair and that this would take 28 days. I`m not dealing with Berghaus, but Go Outdoors, are they now allowed to do this sort of thing?

 

[Tetchytyke]

You only have the right to a refund if you take it back within 30 days. After that, the right is to repair or refund, and it's at the discretion of the retailer. If Berghaus can fix it, and fix it within a reasonable time to the same standard as bought, then they're allowed to do what they're doing.

 

[shredder1]

You only have the right to a refund if you take it back within 30 days. After that, the right is to repair or refund, and it's at the discretion of the retailer. If Berghaus can fix it, and fix it within a reasonable time to the same standard as bought, then they're allowed to do what they're doing.

Cheers mate, last time I`ll deal with them then.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Good guide from Which here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product

 

[Bromley boy]

Just looking for a bit of advice, I bought a Gortex Berghaus Hillwalker coat from Go Outdoors in Manchester in October 2018, it wasnt a particulary expensive one at £155, I`ve not really worn it that much, but over Christmas notice the zipper was coming away from the material, so I took it back on 1st January 2018, hoping to get a replacement or refund. I was however amazed that the store manager refused to give me a replacement or refund, despite agreeing that the garment had a fault and said that they would send it back to Berghaus for repair and that this would take 28 days. I`m not dealing with Berghaus, but Go Outdoors, are they now allowed to do this sort of thing?

I'd have thought you'd have a strong case for complaining to customer services both for the faulty goods and then the relatively poor attitude of the shop manager who is evidently a bit of a jobsworth. If you make a formal complaint you might well find they agree to refund you in full as a goodwill gesture.

No way a coat costing £155 should only last a few weeks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cheers mate, last time I`ll deal with them then.

You'll find this is the norm in outdoor equipment terms. Most likely it'll end up being repaired under contract by Lancashire Sports Repairs.

Though only having it last 3 months is poor and does suggest a manufacturing defect. I've had 3 Berghaus jackets (the expensive Gore Tex ones), one is only a couple of months old, but I got over 20 years out of the first one (spare for the last 8 years or so and did need a new zip after about 12) and about 10 years out of the second one, which was of noticeably lower quality (still good though) - but was half the price in real terms[1]. Still got the second one as a spare now.

The only significant issue I've had with that design of jacket is that the outside pockets are not fully waterproof (on any of the Berghaus jackets with externally stitched pockets, it's a design flaw).

[1] First one was a Trango Extrem GTX bought in 1995 for about £230 when I was 15 (saved up for it for ages), second one was the very similar Mera Peak GTX, once beloved of the Liverpool scallies in school[2], in the mid 2000s for under £200.

[2] I liked showing off to said scallies that mine actually went up mountains.

 

[shredder1]

Thank you very much for your all your helpful replies, I wont spent any more money with them now, for the sake of £155 is it really worth losing sales and good will, crazy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thank you very much for your all your helpful replies, I wont spent any more money with them now, for the sake of £155 is it really worth losing sales and good will, crazy.

As I mentioned you'll find this is the norm in the outdoor industry, annoying though it may be to you.

LSR, which is where it will probably be repaired, are reputable; they're not a bad bet at all if you need a paid for repair on older kit. I think they used to have something to do with Karrimor before Sports Direct destroyed it. In a way it will be good for you because it will mean it comes back with the defect you've found fixed but no other defects as you risk if they swapped it.

 

[shredder1]

Thanks very much friend, I do know some of the smaller outdoor shops that will replace faulty goods without question, so I`ll deal with those in future. Go Outdoors now have my money and my coat through no fault of my own, I`ve learned my lesson.

 

[Bromley boy]

Thanks very much friend, I do know some of the smaller outdoor shops that will replace faulty goods without question, so I`ll deal with those in future. Go Outdoors now have my money and my coat through no fault of my own, I`ve learned my lesson.

In your situation I would definitely go down the complaint route. You never know you might end up with a full refund anyway, and some goodwill vouchers!

 

[shredder1]

In your situation I would definitely go down the complaint route. You never know you might end up with a full refund anyway, and some goodwill vouchers!

Thanks very much, I may have little choice but to take that route, so much hassle after buying a coat.

 

[PhilipRhayader]

If you're going to use a big chain, I'd go for Cotswold Outdoor and get one of their Explore More cards - gives an upgraded two year guarantee on anything purchased from them when you present it at point of sale.

Many outdoor retailers also give a 15% discount if you're a member of a recognised outdoor club - climbing, walking, cycling and possibly some others.

 

[shredder1]

If you're going to use a big chain, I'd go for Cotswold Outdoor and get one of their Explore More cards - gives an upgraded two year guarantee on anything purchased from them when you present it at point of sale.

Many outdoor retailers also give a 15% discount if you're a member of a recognised outdoor club - climbing, walking, cycling and possibly some others.

Thank you very much Philip, much appreciated advice, thank you. I`ve had a result below.

 

[shredder1]

6 emails later and a threat of legal action and I received this mail today. a result, but its cost them dearly.

Hello Nick,

Thank you for getting back to me and your patience with this matter.

I have spoke with Manchester store and asked them to chase this up for you. Berghaus have confirmed the fault and have credited you for the jacket.

Please return to store for a exchange credit note or a refund.

Once again please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused.

Please don't hesitate to contact us for any further information.

Regards,
Josh
Customer Support Team Member
GO Outdoors Ltd
0330 008 1555

 

[DarloRich]

Cheers mate, last time I`ll deal with them then.

Thank you very much for your all your helpful replies, I wont spent any more money with them now, for the sake of £155 is it really worth losing sales and good will, crazy.

Thanks very much friend, I do know some of the smaller outdoor shops that will replace faulty goods without question, so I`ll deal with those in future. Go Outdoors now have my money and my coat through no fault of my own, I`ve learned my lesson.

so let me get this straight. You expected a refund outside of the statutory period and wonder why the company wont give you what you want and then whine that you don't get your own way? You haven't given them an opportunity to fix the problem!

 

[Darandio]

and a threat of legal action

That escalated quickly.

 

[shredder1]

That escalated quickly.

They don`t like it up em

 

[shredder1]

so let me get this straight. You expected a refund outside of the statutory period and wonder why the company wont give you what you want and then whine that you don't get your own way? You haven't given them an opportunity to fix the problem!

Yes I`ve spent thousands with them, a replacement would have been good after sales service, the manager knew it was faulty, but choose to take this route. I`ll collect my replacement next week. Not whining, just standing up for what I believe is fair, plus it`s the principle. Anyway problem solved now Darlo.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes I`ve spent thousands with them, a replacement would have been good after sales service, the manager knew it was faulty, but choose to take this route. I`ll collect my replacement next week. Not whining, just standing up for what I believe is fair, plus it`s the principle. Anyway problem solved now Darlo.

but you are wrong..................................

A replacement would have been at the discretion of the manager. They were perfectly right to offer you a repair. IF that failed then they should have a chat about refunds. You didn't even give them the chance. Both parties have to pay the game. You saw the rules and stropped off like a child. BTW what grounds did you use to threaten legal action?

 

[shredder1]

but you are wrong..................................

A replacement would have been at the discretion of the manager. They were perfectly right to offer you a repair. IF that failed then they should have a chat about refunds. You didn't even give them the chance. Both parties have to pay the game. You saw the rules and stropped off like a child. BTW what grounds did you use to threaten legal action?

Like a child, that`s your department surely Darlo . Look mate they`ve had both my coat and money since January, its cold, its winter and I`m a struggling pensioner , I think I`ve been quite lenient with them to be honest` another week and I would have sent a team in

 

[DarloRich]

Like a child, that`s your department surely Darlo . Look mate they`ve had both my coat and money since January, its cold, its winter and I`m a struggling pensioner , I think I`ve been quite lenient with them to be honest` another week and I would have sent a team in

fair enough. I wouldn't behave like that but each to their own.

 

[shredder1]

fair enough. I wouldn't behave like that but each to their own.

Your a good sport mate, but yes I tend to go out with all guns blazing, your approach is the more sensible one Darlo.

 

[Busaholic]

Your a good sport mate, but yes I tend to go out with all guns blazing, your approach is the more sensible one Darlo.

I've been a retailer since 1986, although nominally retired now, but I'm with you on this one. Well done!

 

[Barn]

You only have the right to a refund if you take it back within 30 days. After that, the right is to repair or refund, and it's at the discretion of the retailer. If Berghaus can fix it, and fix it within a reasonable time to the same standard as bought, then they're allowed to do what they're doing.

It's not quite right to say that the choice of repair or replace is at the discretion of the retailer. It is primarily the choice of the consumer, but the consumer can't insist on one or the other if doing so is disproportionate. Part of the test for whether it is disproportionate is "whether the other remedy could be effected without significant inconvenience to the consumer".

One might argue that being without a coat for a large part of the winter is a significant inconvenience.

Glad it's sorted one way or the other though.

 

[Bromley boy]

6 emails later and a threat of legal action and I received this mail today. a result, but its cost them dearly.

Hello Nick,

Thank you for getting back to me and your patience with this matter.

I have spoke with Manchester store and asked them to chase this up for you. Berghaus have confirmed the fault and have credited you for the jacket.

Please return to store for a exchange credit note or a refund.

Once again please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused.

Please don't hesitate to contact us for any further information.

Regards,
Josh
Customer Support Team Member
GO Outdoors Ltd
0330 008 1555

I knew it! Good result.

Well done for persevering.

 

[Bromley boy]

fair enough. I wouldn't behave like that but each to their own.

I would .

If you're sold a shoddy product the company should apologise and do what it can to assist. There's nothing childish about standing up for yourself in these situations.

 

[Busaholic]

A refund is one thing, and can be exploited by the criminally minded, but a straight replacement was the obvious solution in this case and, from the original post, would have been acceptable. Just shoddy service values in action!

 

[Tetchytyke]

the consumer can't insist on one or the other if doing so is disproportionate

That's really what I was driving at. If a repair is proportionate to the situation then you can't insist on a refund or replacement. Equally you can't insist on a repair if it's disproportionately expensive/difficult compared to getting your cash back.

I'm glad it's sorted, I'm surprised the manager went down the repair route to start with to be honest. Seems more hassle for them than just an exchange.

 

[shredder1]

I've been a retailer since 1986, although nominally retired now, but I'm with you on this one. Well done!

Thank you, it was unfortunate really.

It's not quite right to say that the choice of repair or replace is at the discretion of the retailer. It is primarily the choice of the consumer, but the consumer can't insist on one or the other if doing so is disproportionate. Part of the test for whether it is disproportionate is "whether the other remedy could be effected without significant inconvenience to the consumer".

One might argue that being without a coat for a large part of the winter is a significant inconvenience.

Glad it's sorted one way or the other though.

Thank you very much Barn.

I knew it! Good result.

Well done for persevering.

Thank you, it did wind me up a bit to be honest.

That's really what I was driving at. If a repair is proportionate to the situation then you can't insist on a refund or replacement. Equally you can't insist on a repair if it's disproportionately expensive/difficult compared to getting your cash back.

I'm glad it's sorted, I'm surprised the manager went down the repair route to start with to be honest. Seems more hassle for them than just an exchange.

Thanks very much, yes a strange way to do business, he knew there was a fault with it when I returned it and he also knew I was a good customer, I bought a pair of boots from then last year for £250, they`ve lost all my business now.

 

[DarloRich]

I would .

If you're sold a shoddy product the company should apologise and do what it can to assist. There's nothing childish about standing up for yourself in these situations.

Agreed and I am very happy to enforce my rights. However all sides have to play the game. An offer of a repair is a perfectly acceptable response at first instance outside of the statutory 30 day period. After such a fix failed, could not be delivered, was not possible in a cost effective manner or could not be delivered in an acceptable timescale a further discussion about remedy should take place. Clearly then a good will offer to replace the product or refund seems reasonable.

Furthermore to expect that repair to be undertaken or completed on site in what is obviously a retail environment is not realistic. The manufacturer (or their contractor) is going to have to make the repair and that is going to take a little bit of time to facilitate.

Being told what the law says, being offered a perfectly acceptable remedy, refusing that remedy, having a paddy and stropping off is, in my mind, childish.

PS it is also possible ( and i don't suggest that the OP would do such a thing) that the shop have had issues with people buying expensive coats, wearing them a couple of times in the cold, damaging them while claiming faulty manufacture and asking for a refund. It happens all the time.