Next Tory leader

[nlogax]

His views are completely incompatible with the 21st century. That's the nicest possibly way I could put it

Yep, you're being far nicer about R-M than I could ever hope to be. He is an absolutely appalling individual.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Tories need Anna Soubry.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I think a Cameron figure is actually what the country would support at the moment. Someone who gets on with the job without too much fuss.

Wasn't that supposed to be Theresa May's big selling point? Getting on with the job without too much fuss?

 

[bramling]

Wasn't that supposed to be Theresa May's big selling point? Getting on with the job without too much fuss?

The difference being Cameron was largely elected on his own merits. Theresa May was a "none of the above", and it shows. To be fair, I think history may well decide that Theresa May actually hasn't been so bad, given the background to her premiership.

 

[nlogax]

At this stage in Tory fortunes I don't see how anyone can really bring them together. Imagine trying to run a country with the EU-embracing Remain half of your party wanting your blood while the EU-loathing Brexiteer half of your party want..er..your blood. Until that issue is somehow resolved any PM will find it tough going. As much as I like Soubry, imagine the extra bile she'd get from Cash, Redwood & co. It'd be an impossible job. May's doing the best she can by way of directionless dithering and trying not to fall too far either side of Brexit fence beyond committing to leave the EU.

 

[bramling]

At this stage in Tory fortunes I don't see how anyone can really bring them together. Imagine trying to run a country with the EU-embracing Remain half of your party wanting your blood while the EU-loathing Brexiteer half of your party want..er..your blood. Until that issue is somehow resolved any PM will find it tough going. As much as I like Soubry, imagine the extra bile she'd get from Cash, Redwood & co. It'd be an impossible job. May's doing the best she can by way of directionless dithering and trying not to fall too far either side of Brexit fence beyond committing to leave the EU.

Sooner Brexit is sealed and concluded the better, so at least the country can return to something of a domestic agenda.

 

[3141]

Wasn't that supposed to be Theresa May's big selling point? Getting on with the job without too much fuss?

Yes, and she got on with it as Home Secretary. But as PM you need to do more about relationships and persuasion. You especially need those things when there's an issue as big as Brexit which is so divisive in the party you lead.

Politically, I can see the Conservatives splitting and being out of office for 20 years - rather like their position after the repeal of the Corn Laws in 1846, when they took part in some minority governments but were unable to achieve a majority. But the results of Brexit have the potential to create problems for any government after we've left. Even if there is, sooner or later, some political realignment as a result of which the Rees-Moggs and Duncan Smiths are permanently marginalised, governments of whatever persuasion are going to have to tackle the issues that we'll be faced with after the transitional period is over, and a politically volatile situation is not the best context for that. Or maybe the context will be a consequence of the issues that have to be tackled and the difficulties of doing so. Both, actually.

 

[3141]

Sooner Brexit is sealed and concluded the better, so at least the country can return to something of a domestic agenda.

Although there may be an agreement on paper, I fear that implementing it will prove controversial, as will negotiating those other trade agreements that we're likely to need, and we won't be returning to whatever we might regard as "normality" for a long time.

 

[bramling]

Yes, and she got on with it as Home Secretary. But as PM you need to do more about relationships and persuasion. You especially need those things when there's an issue as big as Brexit which is so divisive in the party you lead.

Politically, I can see the Conservatives splitting and being out of office for 20 years - rather like their position after the repeal of the Corn Laws in 1846, when they took part in some minority governments but were unable to achieve a majority. But the results of Brexit have the potential to create problems for any government after we've left. Even if there is, sooner or later, some political realignment as a result of which the Rees-Moggs and Duncan Smiths are permanently marginalised, governments of whatever persuasion are going to have to tackle the issues that we'll be faced with after the transitional period is over, and a politically volatile situation is not the best context for that. Or maybe the context will be a consequence of the issues that have to be tackled and the difficulties of doing so. Both, actually.

You may well be right. A lot will depend upon whether the current lot lose their salience relatively quickly and a slightly younger and less ideological generation come to fore.

Meanwhile, Labour is in no better position. In fact, they are possibly worse. No real policies, just naked ideology, and they are also split on Brexit, although not as much. Labour is also split on its very position on the political spectrum (or at least how it sells itself), and that if anything is a worse position than the Conservatives. The only reason the Labour wounds aren't bleeding in public is due to the election result (and the fact that some moderates have walked away), however I'm not sure the election result necessarily translates into Corbyn being that close to power. Remember the election was billed as a foregone conclusion. If one was held tomorrow it would probably be billed as all to play for - and I think some or even many would get cold feet at the thought of Corbyn actually getting into power. And if people hesitate at the prospect of Corbyn, I think many more would shudder at the prospect of McDonnell and Abbott.

Certainly interesting times, although it's all rather depressing.

 

[Busaholic]

You know what, I almost pine for John Major?! Now there's a sentence I never thought I'd utter in a million years: I'd even (almost) be prepared to accept Edwina Currie as Chancellor, popping into No 10 for a 'nightcap' every evening.

 

[Qwerty133]

His views are completely incompatible with the 21st century. That's the nicest possibly way I could put it. The fact that someone of his poor character and dubious social views could even be considered as a possible candidate is quite frankly bizarre and a bit worrying.

He needs a one-way time machine to the 19th century.

His views are more compatible with the 21st century than the Labour leaders...

 

[Class172]

He needs a one-way time machine to the 19th century.

It's easy to see why I call him the minister for said century!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure the electorate would wear it again in quite the same way. Look at just how utterly toxic Blair is now considered to be, and it's not all down to Iraq.

I think a Cameron figure is actually what the country would support at the moment. Someone who gets on with the job without too much fuss.

That's what I thought May would be (rather than uselessly incompetent, and "weak and wobbly" as it were).

Cameron was an idiot. If he hadn't called his stupid referendum, he would still have been PM in my view.

 

[bramling]

That's what I thought May would be (rather than uselessly incompetent, and "weak and wobbly" as it were).

Cameron was an idiot. If he hadn't called his stupid referendum, he would still have been PM in my view.

Personally I don’t see why Cameron had to resign. I would have preferred him to have the decency to carry through the result of his referendum.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I don’t see why Cameron had to resign. I would have preferred him to have the decency to carry through the result of his referendum.

That is a very good point.

 

[bramling]

That is a very good point.

I think a lot of the issue was that the political powers that be had consistently underestimated the appetite for leaving (or more realistically the at best lukewarmness towards being in the EU).

I remember Cameron being pretty clear on what leaving the EU would involve in his “out of the single market, out of the ...” speech. The problem is I don’t think Cameron ever expected the result to be leave.

 

[507021]

His views are more compatible with the 21st century than the Labour leaders...

I respect your opinion, but I disagree entirely.

Personally I don’t see why Cameron had to resign. I would have preferred him to have the decency to carry through the result of his referendum.

I don't think he had to resign either, to be honest.

 

[trash80]

His views are more compatible with the 21st century than the Labour leaders...

We're talking AD but BC.

 

[Casey Jones125]

A pretty depressing line-up, and we are of course in the situation where Labour are no better.

Out of that lot I'd say Hammond might well be the most sensible choice overall, although he hardly inspires enthusiasm -- another "none of the above" candidate. It may well turn sour quickly unless he can find a unifying Brexit position.

Leadsom and Rudd are too weak for different reasons, Williamson isn't well known enough, and for some reason I just can't see Davis or Gove in the job.

Personally I'd be quite happy with Rees-Mogg simply because I think it would be a case of what you see is what you get, although I don't necessarily think that would be the best choice electorally.

Pity we can't have Cameron back! Actually I'd have been quite happy for him to have stayed on and delivered Brexit.

I think May will hang on for the time being. Labour are still not really a credible opposition force - too many soundbites and not enough detail - and still no serious Conservative leader-in-waiting.

Jacob Rees- Mogg absolutely, we need someone in the chair with intelligence and common sense. He runs rings around almost all current politicians. (The abortion bit is just a side show the left love to jump on)

 

[Casey Jones125]

We're talking AD but BC.

Do explain?

 

[Casey Jones125]

That cheesy-grinned liar wiped the floor with Conservatives three times weather you like it or not.

And sent this country to war on a lie. In the process we lost some good men to this man's lies.

 

[Casey Jones125]

Yep, you're being far nicer about R-M than I could ever hope to be. He is an absolutely appalling individual.

Appalling, that is rather broad brush? What is appalling about him?

 

[nlogax]

Appalling, that is rather broad brush? What is appalling about him?

Just to be clear.

- Voted for the bedroom tax
- Voted against gay marriage
- Focuses on the ‘uplifting’ nature of food bank provision, not bothered as to why they have to exist in the first place
- Voted against euthanasia
- Voted to raise the tuition fee cap
- Is opposed to abortion in any circumstance
- Once dubbed himself a ‘man of the people’. You heard. Jacob Rees-Mogg, yer regular man of the people.

Rees-Mogg is the newest eccentric, Eton-educated, media-made political personality that it’s suddenly cool to like. He’s Boris v2.0 with a side parting. Venture beyond that varnished accent to his voting record and his views on society in general and you’re confronted with some ugly truths - in political terms the man is not fit to represent anyone. He’s a 19th century politician wearing 20th century suits in a (supposed) 21st century parliament, getting off on the attention and pure ridiculousness of it all.

Actually, don’t take my word for it. Take at look at his parliamentary record for yourself.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes


He’s appalling.

 

[Casey Jones125]

Just to be clear.

- Voted for the bedroom tax
- Voted against gay marriage
- Focuses on the ‘uplifting’ nature of food bank provision, not bothered as to why they have to exist in the first place
- Voted against euthanasia
- Voted to raise the tuition fee cap
- Is opposed to abortion in any circumstance
- Once dubbed himself a ‘man of the people’. You heard. Jacob Rees-Mogg, yer regular man of the people.

Rees-Mogg is the newest eccentric, Eton-educated, media-made political personality that it’s suddenly cool to like. He’s Boris v2.0 with a side parting. Venture beyond that varnished accent to his voting record and his views on society in general and you’re confronted with some ugly truths - in political terms the man is not fit to represent anyone. He’s a 19th century politician wearing 20th century suits in a (supposed) 21st century parliament, getting off on the attention and pure ridiculousness of it all.

Actually, don’t take my word for it. Take at look at his parliamentary record for yourself.


https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes


He’s appalling.

What may be appalling to one man maybe refreshing to another!

 

[nlogax]

What may be appalling to one man maybe refreshing to another!

What's 'refreshing' about his stances re. the above?

 

[Casey Jones125]

From that small cherry picked list you have ommitted lots of good things he has voted for.
As for the man of the people he should not be using that divisive divide and conquer language of the left. That is appalling.

 

[Domh245]

From that small cherry picked list you have ommitted lots of good things he has voted for.

Such as? Perhaps you could list the things that you think are good to save us the trouble of having to go through his voting record?

 

[507021]

Such as? Perhaps you could list the things that you think are good to save us the trouble of having to go through his voting record?

I'd be interested to know too, because I've read his voting record and I can't find a single good thing he has voted in favour of.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Views can vary on *some* of those - for example I would support the "bedroom tax" if, and only if:

1. It doesn't apply if you have put in an application to move to a smaller property, regardless of whether one is available or not.
2. When you make the move assistance is available to decorate etc (as Council properties often take some effort) and with the move itself.

It makes absolute sense to have people live in the right size of Council property where available.

 

[3141]

Personally I don’t see why Cameron had to resign. I would have preferred him to have the decency to carry through the result of his referendum.

Even Grayling said that if the referendum went in favour of Leave he'd like Cameron to stay on as PM, at least for a time. Though I've wondered whether Grayling calculated that he wouldn't be offered a post by Johnson, who seemed the most likely successor. But I suppose Cameron felt he'd made such an awful blunder in promising a referendum which had worked out so differently from his expectations, that he couldn't stay in office afterwards. And the arguments within the party that we see now would still have occurred, and Leavers would say that a Remainer PM was trying to water brexit down, and so on.