Train company branding: "Trains" vs "Railways"

[Masboroughlad]

Why do some franchises call themselves 'Trains' (South Western Trains) and others 'Railway' (South Western Railway). Same service, stock, area etc.

Are both right? Are both wrong? Potentially confusing for the general public?

 

[telstarbox]

It doesn't matter.

 

[elstreepilot]

It certainly doesn’t matter. Consider British Airways/American Airlines; United Airlines/Cathay Pacific Airways. And so on....

 

[Antman]

Why do some franchises call themselves 'Trains' (South Western Trains) and others 'Railway' (South Western Railway). Same service, stock, area etc.

Are both right? Are both wrong? Potentially confusing for the general public?

Trains would seem more logical than railways, no wonder a lot of passengers blame TOC's for points/signal failures etc?

 

[Cowley]

I know it doesn’t matter really and that language moves on, but the term ‘Railway’ I could see disappearing completely over the next forty years - with ‘train track’ and ‘train station’ taking over instead.
It’s surely just a matter of time before our national rail infrastructure provider renames itself as ‘Network Traintrack’..? (sponsored by Brio)

 

[DarloRich]

I suppose to be ultra geeky and pedant like none of the TOC's run a railway except perhaps, almost, kind of, maybe, Scotrail. The TOC's run a train service but I doubt it matters

 

[ASharpe]

I suppose if they have their own track they can be railway, but most TOCs just run trains.

I think for some TOCs nostalgia leads to their names and provided it's geographically accurate that seems acceptable to me.

I also think there might be some sort of scale and I'd suggest Heathrow Express at one end and Cross country at the other - discuss.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

This could be down to the TOC.

FirstGroup has a thing for "Railway", GWR then now SWR. If Transpennine wasn't an express-intercity service then it might otherwise be called "Trans-Pennine Railway". "Express" would be more attractive as a brand especially for a faster intercity service.

Govia goes for just the name such as "Southern", "Southeastern", "Thameslink" and previously "London Midland".

Stagecoach likes "Trains", if they get the South Eastern franchise then perhaps expect to see "South East Trains"?

Abellio doesn't normally choose "Railway" as this isn't apparent in "Greater Anglia", "ScotRail" and "Merseyrail". "West Midlands Railway" was chosen by TfWM therefore the Euston services would be "London Northwestern Railway". If there was no requirement for a separate West Midlands region service, then the franchise could be called "London Northwestern" without the Railway part.

 

[GusB]

Abellio doesn't normally choose "Railway" as this isn't apparent in "Greater Anglia", "ScotRail" and "Merseyrail". "West Midlands Railway" was chosen by TfWM therefore the Euston services would be "London Northwestern Railway". If there was no requirement for a separate West Midlands region service, then the franchise could be called "London Northwestern" without the Railway part.

Of course Abellio doesn't have much choice with ScotRail, given that the livery and brand is specified by Transport Scotland. I think we should count ourselves lucky that the Scottish Government hasn't gone down the same route as other departments and named it "Trains Scotland".

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Of course Abellio doesn't have much choice with ScotRail, given that the livery and brand is specified by Transport Scotland. I think we should count ourselves lucky that the Scottish Government hasn't gone down the same route as other departments and named it "Trains Scotland".

Yes, you're right, I forgot about the Scottish Government! "Rail Scotland" could be another one.

Poor Abellio, it has no choice with the West Midlands and Scottish franchises, they've to accept the name that comes with it. It would be good if the name is consistent and stays the same no matter which franchise holder is running it as it is currently the case with ScotRail.

This would increase recognition and strength of the brand, less likely to confuse or upset customers whenever the franchise change hands that the name would always remain the same.

It has been mentioned on here that the DfT are insisting on the West Midlands Railway/ScotRail model for new/future franchises that the TOC name would not change. Is this right?

FirstGroup would be running "South West Trains" but this was changed to "South Western Railway"?
If Stagecoach wins back the SW franchise in 2024, then would this still be called "South Western Railway" even under Stagecoach instead of "South West Trains"?

 

[Ianigsy]

Of course Abellio doesn't have much choice with ScotRail, given that the livery and brand is specified by Transport Scotland. I think we should count ourselves lucky that the Scottish Government hasn't gone down the same route as other departments and named it "Trains Scotland".

It'd be interesting to know whether the same distinction between trains and the railway exists in Gaelic, given that the brand is bilingual.

 

[ComUtoR]

Imagine renaming it 'South West Electric Multiple Units'

 

[alxndr]

I think "railway" sounds better, but it does grate a little that they can't really say they run a railway when they have nothing to do with the infrastructure. I could argue that it causes confusion over who is responsible for what, but I doubt the average member of the public gets the distinction, or even thinks about it.

 

[whhistle]

It would be good if the name is consistent and stays the same no matter which franchise holder is running it as it is currently the case with ScotRail.

This would increase recognition and strength of the brand, less likely to confuse or upset customers whenever the franchise change hands that the name would always remain the same.

But it works the other way too.
If a train company ruins a franchise, who would want their brand involved with something that customers see as toxic?

If I was a new company taking over train services, I'd want my brand on it, my name, so people know it's a better change than what they had before.


Railway / train - the term is interchangable these days. Anyone pouting about saying "it's a train" or "it's a loco" or "it's a railway station" is better off shouting at a wall.
Similar, are things like Hoover, Blutac, Sellotape... all brands but the public turned them into an adjective (?). I don't see anyone moaning about this.

 

[AM9]

But it works the other way too.
If a train company ruins a franchise, who would want their brand involved with something that customers see as toxic?

If I was a new company taking over train services, I'd want my brand on it, my name, so people know it's a better change than what they had before.


Railway / train - the term is interchangable these days. Anyone pouting about saying "it's a train" or "it's a loco" or "it's a railway station" is better off shouting at a wall.
Similar, are things like Hoover, Blutac, Sellotape... all brands but the public turned them into an adjective (?). I don't see anyone moaning about this.

Your examples of those brand names used in conversational English are all nouns.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Typically, TOCs switch between Railway and Trains when there is a change of operator (eg SWT/SWR).
In the States, a surprisingly large number of companies call themselves Railway rather than Railroad, including the 2nd largest, BNSF Railway.
Even Union Pacific was "Railway" at one point in its life (was initially Union Pacific Rail Road, and now Union Pacific Railroad).
Often they change moniker when there is a corporate restructuring or sell-off/acquisition, to indicate it is a different legal entity.
I don't think it matters really.

I'm not keen on "train station", but I see Network Rail sometimes uses the term itself.

 

[Wirewiper]

Poor Abellio

Not a phrase I thought I would ever see on a rail forum!

 

[skyhigh]

Trains would seem more logical than railways, no wonder a lot of passengers blame TOC's for points/signal failures etc?

I doubt the choice of name has any impact on who passengers blame for delays...

 

[trainophile]

It always slightly bugs me that on the ATW Journey Check page under Other Train Operators it lists "Northern Line" instead of Northern Trains. As far as I'm aware, Northern Line is either on the London Underground or on Merseyrail's network.

 

[Western Lord]

A railway is what trains run on, they are not interchangeable terms , you can't run a railway on a train (cue smart alec remarks about having an office and a boardroom on a train.....).

 

[BanburyBlue]

we always have a discussion in the office as to whether you go to the train station or railway station?

 

[Minilad]

we always have a discussion in the office as to whether you go to the train station or railway station?

You can go to whichever one you want. Despite what the pedants might say

 

[dorsetdesiro]

we always have a discussion in the office as to whether you go to the train station or railway station?

Good question.

I once took a taxi in Coventry from the city centre to the station, I requested to be taken to the "railway station" but to be met with a blank stare then I changed the wording to "train station" and this was understood!

 

[DarloRich]

You can go to whichever one you want. Despite what the pedants might say

indeed but as any fule kno only Railway Station is correct. To use train station shows a total lack of intelligence, education, and manners. Why mark yourself out as a plebeian?

 

[Darandio]

Imagine renaming it 'South West Electric Multiple Units'

Which would greatly offend their diesel fleet.

 

[swaldman]

I suppose to be ultra geeky and pedant like none of the TOC's run a railway except perhaps, almost, kind of, maybe, Scotrail. The TOC's run a train service but I doubt it matters

I'm curious now - is there a different arrangement for infrastructure in Scotland?

 

[thirdriding]

There's an obvious difference in meaning between the two words. Personally I'm interested in railways; routes, timetables, stations, infrastructure etc...but not at all interested in trains.

 

[Antman]

I doubt the choice of name has any impact on who passengers blame for delays...

Would it not be reasonable for the average passenger to assume that a company called South Western Railway were responsible for the railway infrastructure?

 

[Minilad]

indeed but as any fule kno only Railway Station is correct. To use train station shows a total lack of intelligence, education, and manners. Why mark yourself out as a plebeian?

Guilty as charged.

 

[skyhigh]

Would it not be reasonable for the average passenger to assume that a company called South Western Railway were responsible for the railway infrastructure?

You might think that - but witness the complaints on twitter/to staff at stations etc when there's a signal failure, I'd suggest there's not really any difference between operators and most passengers don't really care. Unless you've noticed a sudden increase in infrastructure-related complaints when South West Trains became South Western Railway!