Should Seat Reservations Be Abolished?

[whhistle]

I see it so many times:

1) people saying "...but I can get on any train" (after reserving a seat on a specific train).
2) Seats that should have a person in it, but doesn't.
3) People standing because there is a mystery person who has reserved a seat.

Like WMR, tickes can be printed with a time of the train, but should individual seat reservations be abolished?
Yes, it'll perhaps be rubbish for those travelling in a large group (families and such) but maybe seats can be reserved for groups of 4 or more only.

I just can't help but think it's a waste of time both in administration to the paper the reservations are printed on - and in many cases it takes so long to download reservations that many trains leave London without them anyway.

 

[westv]

If I had £1 for every time this is mentioned I'd be very rich.

 

[DanTrain]

No. If I’ve paid good money for a ticket, I want a seat. I agree it’s not perfect, but if you abolish them, then anyone not getting on at the start of the line will be disadvantaged. Also, I what about elderly people who need a seat? Yes I know they have priority seats, but that’s hardly ideal.

 

[capital12]

I’d actually go further the other way for long distance trains and make it compulsory to have a reservation - you could get a free reservation when you book but any changes would cost you, which should sort out the reserved seats with no one sat in them!

No reservation no boarding, cuts out the whinging about having to stand (that’s what you get with a free for all I’m afraid) and demand can be better matched to availability.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No. I'd actually like to see them rolled out more widely by way of stopping marking individual reservations, with a reserved and unreserved area permanently marked on each train and the ability to obtain reservations and select a seat from the TVM, ticket office and online, including if a ticket is already held, and including the ability to change a reservation as desired. To avoid them being wasted a small fee would be sensible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’d actually go further the other way for long distance trains and make it compulsory to have a reservation - you could get a free reservation when you book but any changes would cost you, which should sort out the reserved seats with no one sat in them!

No reservation no boarding, cuts out the whinging about having to stand (that’s what you get with a free for all I’m afraid) and demand can be better matched to availability.

The fundamental issue with this is that the UK doesn't have full segregation of InterCity and local services that some other countries have. People would not accept mandatory reservations for short journeys and would just drive. Hence my suggestion of a hybrid which would result in more reservations and better use of them but not absolutely compulsory.

I think quite a lot of people travelling long distance would consider waiting for the next train for a guaranteed seat if turning up at the station on spec. The problem at present is there is no way to know that so no motivation not to board the first service out.

FWIW I would be happy with the idea of a small fee for each reservation made, perhaps £2, to discourage too many changes. This could perhaps be discounted by £1 if you cancel the old one at the same time to free it up. But I don't favour abolition of flexible tickets and more hefty change fees you seem to imply - the move is away from change fees entirely but towards dynamic pricing.

 

[Mag_seven]

To avoid them being wasted a small fee would be sensible.

Like it used to be! It is really frustrating the number of "no shows" you get - speaking from experience evening peak trains from Paddington seem to be particularly bad for this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like it used to be! It is really frustrating the number of "no shows" you get - speaking from experience evening peak trains from Paddington seem to be particularly bad for this.

Were a lot of them to Reading? GWR allows season ticket reservations.

 

[westv]

Like it used to be! It is really frustrating the number of "no shows" you get - speaking from experience evening peak trains from Paddington seem to be particularly bad for this.

And the problem with that is? If people are too sheep like to take an unused reserved seat then that's their problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And the problem with that is? If people are too sheep like to take an unused reserved seat then that's their problem.

It's stressful. Much better that people cancel reservations they do not need, and the system motivates them to do so. At present it isn't even possible, AIUI.

 

[Mag_seven]

Were a lot of them to Reading? GWR allows season ticket reservations.

All sorts of destinations, Reading included.

And the problem with that is? If people are too sheep like to take an unused reserved seat then that's their problem.

They do but it would be good to know if its a "no show" prior to departure time rather than having to wait until say 10 mins into the journey to see that its obviously a "no show"!

 

[rebmcr]

Once all tickets are next-generation QR-codes and smartcards, it would be possible for a full inspection to tag any abandoned reservations, and charge a small fee. The same system would allow a traveller to 'release' their reservation beforehand if they don't end up using it, to avoid the fee.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once all tickets are next-generation QR-codes and smartcards, it would be possible for a full inspection to tag any abandoned reservations, and charge a small fee. The same system would allow a traveller to 'release' their reservation beforehand if they don't end up using it, to avoid the fee.

Charging for reservations and refunding a little if cancelled/changed solves that and isn't half as awkwardly technical.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Like it used to be! It is really frustrating the number of "no shows" you get - speaking from experience evening peak trains from Paddington seem to be particularly bad for this.

I find no-shows on Cross Country services have dramatically increasing since they introduced this ten minute reservation texting system.

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/tickets/ten-minute-reservations

The problem is that you don't need to offer any proof you hold a ticket and can make as many text reservations as you like. This means that if a commuter between, say, Leeds and Sheffield, isn't sure whether to take the 1611, 1640 or 1711 train home, he or she can reserve a seat for free on all 3 trains! This means of course that on at least 2 trains a seat will be shown as reserved but won't be used.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm very surprised that system wasn't done with a premium text to charge £1 or £2 for each one, refunded automatically if no seat was available.

 

[47802]

I’d actually go further the other way for long distance trains and make it compulsory to have a reservation - you could get a free reservation when you book but any changes would cost you, which should sort out the reserved seats with no one sat in them!

No reservation no boarding, cuts out the whinging about having to stand (that’s what you get with a free for all I’m afraid) and demand can be better matched to availability.

No I totally disagree with that, of course you have that on many trains in Europe and its a pain in the butt, I would also like to see those responsible for XC reservation system sent to some far away location on a one way ticket with seats that aren't reserved but are reserved by someone else half way through their journey.

 

[Sheepy1209]

Reservations are the thing I find most stressful about rail travel - simply because they're so unreliable. I hate getting on a train and finding that the reservations aren't working, it just creates tension because passengers are left to sort it out amongst themselves. The Cross-Country ten-minute system comes a close second.

So for me priority is a reliable system, followed by easy identification of seats (I like the IEP traffic-light system), clearly readable labels / displays, and finally online booking systems shouldn't offer reservations by default, just make it booked train for Advances. If a small fee needs to go hand in hand with that (waived for pre-registered people with specific needs) then fair enough.

On no-shows, I often travel to Euston for work and book onto the 14:30 departure for my return trip as it's the last off-peak - but usually manage to get away earlier. If I could cancel that 14:30 reservation as soon as I know it's not needed then I would - the only reason I reserve is I expect that service to be busier than the others. Could be wrong of course!

 

[underbank]

When you're paying £50-£100 for a ticket (or your employer is paying), a trivial charge of £1/£2 is irrelevant and won't affect behaviour. I'd say that there should be no free reservations and that if you want to reserve a seat then you pay a charge of say 10% of the ticket price, so a tenner for a £100 fare. That'll discourage the no-shows and multiple bookers. If people are happy to take the risk and turn up to hope for the best, they can save the charge. If your fare is low, i.e. £10-£20, then you're still only looking at the £1/£2 mentioned.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reservations are the thing I find most stressful about rail travel - simply because they're so unreliable. I hate getting on a train and finding that the reservations aren't working, it just creates tension because passengers are left to sort it out amongst themselves.

Reliability is one reason for my proposing not marking them at all but instead having fixed reserved and unreserved areas.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When you're paying £50-£100 for a ticket (or your employer is paying), a trivial charge of £1/£2 is irrelevant and won't affect behaviour.

The 5p "bag tax" (an incredibly small sum of money) is about as good evidence as you'll get that actually it does.

 

[Nick66]

I often see guards collecting unused reservation cards part way through a journey to make it clear that the seats are free. Some people are reluctant to sit in a seat that has a reservation even if it is clearly not being used, didn’t it used to be an offence at one time? I think the best solution would be to introduce a time limit for taking up reserved seats, possibly with an announcement when that time limit is up on busy trains.

 

[cactustwirly]

Reliability is one reason for my proposing not marking them at all but instead having fixed reserved and unreserved areas.

We have that at the moment with unreserved coaches. F & K on GWR HSTs, and D & E on EMT HSTs.
The problem is that the amount of reservations varies on each train, for example Coach E normally is unreserved unless it's a busy train, same with coach A on EMT.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We have that at the moment with unreserved coaches. F & K on GWR HSTs, and D & E on EMT HSTs.
The problem is that the amount of reservations varies on each train, for example Coach E normally is unreserved unless it's a busy train, same with coach A on EMT.

But if you consider reservations being available up to departure, I think you will easily have all of them claimed.

 

[Senex]

No I totally disagree with that, of course you have that on many trains in Europe and its a pain in the butt, I would also like to see those responsible for XC reservation system sent to some far away location on a one way ticket with seats that aren't reserved but are reserved by someone else half way through their journey.

I so agree — and for preference they should have the experience of having to move seats several times over during their journey, as can so easily happen with their ghastly "system".

 

[al78]

I’d actually go further the other way for long distance trains and make it compulsory to have a reservation - you could get a free reservation when you book but any changes would cost you, which should sort out the reserved seats with no one sat in them!

No reservation no boarding, cuts out the whinging about having to stand (that’s what you get with a free for all I’m afraid) and demand can be better matched to availability.

I don't agree. This would reduce the flexibility of rail transport by making it like air travel, which just makes it impractical for more people. You might as well fly long distance if rail reservations are compulsory. If people whinge about standing that is their problem, that is the consequence you have to accept if you want to travel at the same time everyone else wants to travel (like driving on the M25 late afternoon on the Friday before a bank holiday). Or is that the idea, reduce overcrowding by making it impractical to more and more people over time?

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW, I think there would be a substantial reduction in overcrowding on some routes if all points of information about a train contained (a) the current level of reservations, and (b) predicted loadings based on past experience.

Euston's departure board presently shows (a), and it is most useful in working out how busy a train is likely to be, but it would be really useful to have a red, amber and green for each train at each point on the planners. SBB have it, so it's clearly possible without clever technology. Then you could have an option on the search to "exclude trains on which I am likely to have to stand for all or part of the journey".

There are also ways it can be avoided on the likes of LNW by avoiding diagrammed 4 car sets off peak and avoiding anything other than a 12 in the peak (and avoiding all short formed sets regardless), but it's a bit of a blunt instrument.

If you want evidence of how people don't presently have this information and so don't use it, I've noticed on a few Sundays recently that TPE services from Preston to Manchester Airport are seriously overcrowded, but the following 4-car class 156 Northern service is loading to barely 25%.

 

[martinsh]

Reservations should be charged at a substantial amount (£10 ?), but that charge should be redeemable (from guard - in RTVs ?) if they actually sit in the seat !

 

[edwin_m]

And the problem with that is? If people are too sheep like to take an unused reserved seat then that's their problem.

People are also used to seeing reservations on seats and will probably ignore a "reserved area". Also if people with reservations can sit anywhere in the reserved area then there will be problems such as groups being unable to sit together and people who need table/socket/priority seats not being able to get them.

When you're paying £50-£100 for a ticket (or your employer is paying), a trivial charge of £1/£2 is irrelevant and won't affect behaviour. I'd say that there should be no free reservations and that if you want to reserve a seat then you pay a charge of say 10% of the ticket price, so a tenner for a £100 fare. That'll discourage the no-shows and multiple bookers. If people are happy to take the risk and turn up to hope for the best, they can save the charge. If your fare is low, i.e. £10-£20, then you're still only looking at the £1/£2 mentioned.

Many company policies that require the booking of the cheapest ticket would most likely extend this to not allowing reservations if they cost extra, ignoring the productivity benefit of being able to work when sat down or at least not being so frazzled when heading for an important meeting!

I often see guards collecting unused reservation cards part way through a journey to make it clear that the seats are free. Some people are reluctant to sit in a seat that has a reservation even if it is clearly not being used, didn’t it used to be an offence at one time? I think the best solution would be to introduce a time limit for taking up reserved seats, possibly with an announcement when that time limit is up on busy trains.

It's a good idea for guards to do this but I guess they don't always have the time. Systems with computerised displays could do this automaticaly if they had some kind of sensor on each seat to tell if it was occupied. Isn't there already a rule that people have to take up their reservations from the station shown on them?

Reservations should be charged at a substantial amount (£10 ?), but that charge should be redeemable (from guard - in RTVs ?) if they actually sit in the seat !

Strikes me as totally impractical. The guard would have to get down the train between each station and if they didn't lots of people would complain. Either that or there would be some online alternative which would most likely impossible to police against fraudulent applications (they can't prove after the event whether someone used their reservation or not).

 

[DenmarkRail]

Nope. I want to get on a train, and have a guaranteed seat!

 

[E_Reeves]

It's good unless a seat is doubled booked. Had that a few times on XC