Dog died after lead trapped in train doors at station

[duncanp]

Never heard of an incident like this before.

I suppose in addition to a dog's lead, it could be something like an object of clothing.

I presume Thameslink trains have emergency alarms just like on the tube, but would someone on board the trains be able to see a dog's lead trapped in the door?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-45639696

The death of a dog which was dragged onto train tracks after its lead got trapped in the carriage doors is being investigated by the rail watchdog.

Rosalee Barry was putting luggage onto a rack at Elstree and Borehamwood station, but the doors closed, leaving her and pet Jonty on the platform.

His lead got stuck and the dog was found dead in a tunnel nearby.

The Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) said it was investigating the events of 7 September.

It said Ms Barry was unharmed but the loss of her dog had "caused her very considerable distress".

The train was travelling the St Albans City to Sutton line when Jonty's lead became trapped at about 14:00 BST.

The RAIB investigation will also look at the train doors' ability to detect trapped objects and the systems in place to tell drivers it is safe to depart.

A Thameslink spokesperson said: "We are very sorry for the distress caused to the Ms Barry by this deeply upsetting incident.

"We launched an immediate investigation and informed the Rail Accident Investigation Branch."

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most people don't think to pull the cord, they feel put off by threats of fines etc.

 

[Edders23]

such a shame but I suppose unless there were platform staff about who could see she was loading baggage it might have looked as if the train was clear to depart

 

[theking]

Does it really need the expense of an investigation.

We know doors sensitive edges have a tolerance.

Maybe the money should be spent educating people to concentrate on boarding and looking after their personal belongings

 

[ComUtoR]

Does it really need the expense of an investigation.

Yes it does. Many things could have gone wrong.

 

[OneOffDave]

If a system is hazardous enough that people need training and education to use it, should that system be used in a public facing environment where the untrained public will encounter it? In other threads there are supportive comments (quite properly) about the nature of human error and how even trained staff can make these, yet Joe and Jane Public who may have never travelled by train before are expected to know how the systems work and not make similar human errors.

From the cluster of similar events on the RAIB website at the moment, it would appear that undetected entrapment is not (relatively speaking) that unusual but fortunately all the recent incidents have been fatality free. In this case, had the loop of the lead been over the owner's wrist it was possible that the outcome could have been considerably different. From the entries on the website the priority might best be looking at improving the ability of the driver/guard/dispatch staff to detect this sort of entrapment and stop/prevent dispatch before any harm occurs.

 

[EssexGonzo]

Whilst there should absolutely be an investigation - to learn lessons rather than apportion blame - this should not take focus away from the fact that the dog's owner was responsible for its behaviour. This is very sad and I feel for the person who's pet this was, but the decision to use a train with enough luggage to divert attention away from looking after the dog was the owner's. It'd not the train company's responsibility to cover every potential failure of an individual.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I'm surprised the sensitive edge couldn't pick up the dog.

 

[OneOffDave]

Whilst there should absolutely be an investigation - to learn lessons rather than apportion blame - this should not take focus away from the fact that the dog's owner was responsible for its behaviour. This is very sad and I feel for the person who's pet this was, but the decision to use a train with enough luggage to divert attention away from looking after the dog was the owner's. It'd not the train company's responsibility to cover every potential failure of an individual.

But they do have a duty to see if those failures are predictable and ensure that the visitors on their premises are safeguarded to the extent that the risk is reduced to as low as is reasonably practicable.

 

[ComUtoR]

I'm surprised the sensitive edge couldn't pick up the dog.

The lead was trapped. The dog was dragged along the platform and onto the tracks.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The lead was trapped. The dog was dragged along the platform and onto the tracks.

And it still didn't detect it?

 

[ComUtoR]

And it still didn't detect it?

Nope and it sounds like a horrific thing to watch.

The lead would 100% not be detected and the force required to pull it out; both tested at an angle and tested as a direct pull would not have been sufficient with the weight of the dog, even as it was dragged. The dog probably run down the platform as the train pulled away but that is only a logical assumption and not a statement of fact.

The previous RAIB reports into small items of clothing and straps getting caught all say the same thing. Whilst I do appreciate the need to investigate as there are other factors not immediately apparent to observers and that will come out in investigation; the report will be almost identical in their findings, and recommendations to every single other trap and drag. They will never stop, it will never change.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only way to stop ALL trap and drags is much more sensitive edge detection, which is certainly possible. The problem with this is that it will cause countless hours of delays as all sorts of minor things (trapped leaves for instance) stop doors closing.

 

[Smethwickian]

And it still didn't detect it?

How thick is a typical dog lead? Unless it was a heavy rope or whopping great leather thing it might not be detected. Sorry, not always unsympathetic but if she hadn't picked up the animal, or otherwise had so little control over it that it was wandering off with its lead trailing, then it's at her risk that something unfortunate happens to it. Just sorry for the nuisance and inconvenience to staff and other passengers. Rail users should have the common sense to realise that if they have more luggage, pets, handbags, babies and/or cups of coffee than they can manage with their own single pair of hands they might need to exercise some extra caution.

 

[Panupreset]

We know from other investigations that you can have you hand between the doors and interlock will still be achieved and you can take power.

It can be to do with specifications in system design. I.E. the door is allowed to be open by some small amount and interlock be achieved/maintained. Of course as a system operator (driver) you do not get told what the specification is. You get told if that blue light is lit the doors are shut and nothing is obstructing them. Hence why we are now told not to reliy on the interlock light as an indication the doors are properly shut with nothing trapped in them. Nobody has told me though what I should reliy on!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nobody has told me though what I should reliy on!

That would seem obvious, i.e. your Mk1 eyeball. If you are not satisfied from the monitors provided, you need to get up and look.

 

[Flyingsprinter]

Could the same thing not happen to a small child?
Could a small child be trapped in doors and dragged? A child would weigh roughly the same as a dog.
Or would it be the fault of the parent in that situation for traveling with luggage and a child at the same time, and they should only pick to travel with one?
This does need to be investigated, absolutely 1000% it does.

 

[Panupreset]

You can DOO by look back for 8 coaches, according to my operators instructions. 12 coaches requires monitors.

So are the eyesight standards for train driving such that you should be able to see a dark dog lead 7 3/4 coaches back on a poorly lit platform at night? Remember the dog itself, as it was left to its own devices, may have been outside the dispatch corridor and not visible.

 

[ComUtoR]

That would seem obvious, i.e. your Mk1 eyeball. If you are not satisfied from the monitors provided, you need to get up and look.

On a 12 coach train, we are not allowed to look back. If it was a curved platform, can't look back. If someone was standing in the way, you wouldn't see it. etc. etc. etc.

Everyone seems to rely on technology and whenever there are staff issues there is a call for more automation, more DOO, more technology. If that technology is not reliable there is a demand to go back to the human...

 

[Kanrakuq]

If the child was on reins and the parent went up onto the train first (and so would be holding the reins), so they could turn round and then hold out a hand for it to climb up, it's certainly a possibility that it could happen if the door closed as they were stepping in. It's why when we got on a train when my son was younger I'd always make sure he was in front of me and as close as possible so we were moving in tandem rather than as two separate entities, but sometimes people make mistakes or get distracted, and for sure if the door can't detect a lead it wouldn't detect reins either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On a 12 coach train, we are not allowed to look back. If it was a curved platform, can't look back. If someone was standing in the way, you wouldn't see it. etc. etc. etc.

If you can't see conclusively that the doors are all clear via the monitors, then I would assume you either need to get out and walk the length of the train and have a look (shutting down the cab first if this is the requirement), or if that isn't permitted you can't dispatch and presumably need to call Control for assistance.

 

[GodAtum]

Would pulling the emergency cord have helped in this situation?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would pulling the emergency cord have helped in this situation?

Yes, as it would have resulted in the train being stopped.

 

[gsnedders]

Would pulling the emergency cord have helped in this situation?

Depends how soon it was pulled and how far the dog had got moved/dragged.

 

[GodAtum]

Yes, as it would have resulted in the train being stopped.

Shame it wasnt pulled by someone.

 

[Muzer]

Would pulling the emergency cord have helped in this situation?

Should have done, to the best of my knowledge. Drivers should absolutely stop if the alarm is pulled while the train is still in the platform.

 

[Panupreset]

If you can't see conclusively that the doors are all clear via the monitors, then I would assume you either need to get out and walk the length of the train and have a look (shutting down the cab first if this is the requirement), or if that isn't permitted you can't dispatch and presumably need to call Control for assistance.

You are right that you have to go back if you cannot see. You would have to:

1. Call signaller to advise you are having dispatch problems and need to close doors from somewhere other than your cab.
2. Make a PA to advise passengers of the delay.
3. Walk back 4 or 8 coaches as required.
4. Close the doors.
5. Go back to the cab.

Normally this would all told take me about 4-5 minutes, depending how long it takes the signaller to answer. Sufficient then to probably fail PPM and require an explanation to the Performance Department as to why.

Now imagine you have a defective monitor at the 12 car stop position at a major station just outside London. And every driver is doing that on every train in the peak!

 

[6Gman]

Must admit I'm confused by what happened here (presumably RAIB will clarify) and how the passenger and her dog were both on the platform but with the dog's lead in the doorway.

 

[gsnedders]

Now imagine you have a defective monitor at the 12 car stop position at a major station just outside London. And every driver is doing that on every train in the peak!

I'd hope in that case Control would prioritise getting some dispatch staff to the station to assist with dispatch ASAP! (That said, it would still totally cause knock-on delays, even after a single train having to do it.)

Must admit I'm confused by what happened here (presumably RAIB will clarify) and how the passenger and her dog were both on the platform but with the dog's lead in the doorway.

My guess would be the dog chased her on as she put her first bag into the train, then followed her off, the leash trailing behind it, and then the doors closed, with the leash now in the doorway?

 

[ComUtoR]

You are right that you have to go back if you cannot see. You would have to:

1. Call signaller to advise you are having dispatch problems and need to close doors from somewhere other than your cab.
2. Make a PA to advise passengers of the delay.
3. Walk back 4 or 8 coaches as required.
4. Close the doors.
5. Go back to the cab.

How do you do that on a 700 ?