Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[rick_suffolk]

Think that’s what was mentioned previously

 

[306024]

I don't see how that is achievable, unless they get rid of all the freight services!

Never mind freight, quite a number of passenger trains are moved off pattern. Certainly some imaginative planning has achieved these Norwich in 90 paths, but on the very congested GEML the proof will be whether they be operated reliably.

 

[Alfie1014]

Never mind freight, quite a number of passenger trains are moved off pattern. Certainly some imaginative planning has achieved these Norwich in 90 paths, but on the very congested GEML the proof will be whether they be operated reliably.

Well it was always going to be a major challenge but the consequences, especially to accomodate the 19:00 down Norwich fast, I think are pretty major for passengers on some of the other trains! The post 18:00 London evening peak passengers on down the Clacton/Walton branches seem to be the biggest losers. Where as today the service from Liv St is departures at 18:12, 18:32, 18:48 and 19:18 with the 18:48 the fastest of the day at 1hr 27 mins to Clacton. The pattern will become 18:14, 18:19, 18:35 and 19:18, with the 18:19 taking up to 7 mins longer (after sitting in Witham down loop to let the speeded up 18:30 Norwich to go by) and the 18:35 up to 8 mins slower after the addition of 4 extra stops. The 18:19 will now take 5 minutes longer to get to Thorpe-le-Soken (65 miles) than the 19:00 is scheduled to get to Norwich (115 miles)! So services are not only slower but less well spaced out. The 18:48 is diverted to Harwich PQ, though now sits in Witham down loop to make way for the new 19:00 and retimed 19:02 Norwichs' to go by. It'll be interesting to see how loadings are effected as some trains like the 18:19 and 18:48 will become pretty useless for passengers beyond Witham with the 18:30 and 19:02 picking up the slack I'd imagine.

Not had a chance to look into too much detail at the other changes but have noticed that the 09:05 Clacton to Liv St is looped at Shenfield to let the 09:00 Norwich flyer through with a 4 min later arrival in London as a consequence.

All of which might be acceptible if Norwich in 90 was a commercial rather than political imperitive, I think the user groups are going to have a field day!

 

[chubs]

All of which might be acceptible if Norwich in 90 was a commercial rather than political imperitive, I think the user groups are going to have a field day!

Yep - Chloe Smith can proudly claim she achieved her objective and campaign on how great she is, to hell with everyone else.

 

[trebor79]

Stupid idea. What a waste of capacity, loadings to/from Norwich aren't that high and omitting all stops other than Ipswich is just a waste of the path. Business users won't use them as there's no first class.

Shed have done some good if she'd campaigned for some actual infrastructure improvements to support a general speeding up of the service.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Where as today the service from Liv St is departures at 18:12, 18:32, 18:48 and 19:18 with the 18:48 the fastest of the day at 1hr 27 mins to Clacton. The pattern will become 18:14, 18:19, 18:35 and 19:18, with the 18:19 taking up to 7 mins longer (after sitting in Witham down loop to let the speeded up 18:30 Norwich to go by) and the 18:35 up to 8 mins slower after the addition of 4 extra.

That's ridiculous, times like that with three trains in 20 minutes and then a gap of 43 minutes is just going to promote sardine like conditions on the 19.18, which is surely going to be a 10 car, since it really will need to be.

All of which might be acceptible if Norwich in 90 was a commercial rather than political imperitive, I think the user groups are going to have a field day!

Whatever about Norwich passengers, the people on this line are well and truly shafted, not only will they likely have to wait 40 minutes for their train, they now wil have a whole bunch more people who used to get the 18.48 on board as well, to make their journey just a little bit more pleasant.

Completely unacceptable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Business users won't use them as there's no first class.

Most business users are not allowed First Class these days.

 

[trebor79]

Most business users are not allowed First Class these days.

Some are. And if you submit just the receipt with your expenses claim...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some are. And if you submit just the receipt with your expenses claim...

...then most companies won't pay it.

The absence of 1st is not a killer for business travellers in 2018. 3+2 seating might be, but then again if you can get there quicker...

 

[dk1]

...then most companies won't pay it.

The absence of 1st is not a killer for business travellers in 2018. 3+2 seating might be, but then again if you can get there quicker...

Thankfully no 3+2 seating on the Stadler fleet.

 

[trebor79]

My company always pays for first on the basis that it's feasible to do some work during the journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thankfully no 3+2 seating on the Stadler fleet.

Indeed not. I thought a 755 was an Aventra, but it turns out it's a regional bi-mode Stadler. More than acceptable.

 

[dk1]

0900up &1900dn will be very popular 90min services for Norwich passengers. Both load very well every day of the week especially the 1900 being the first off peak. I'm rather impressed that these times where chosen as opposed to commuter/business orientated timings.

 

[Grumbler]

Indeed not. I thought a 755 was an Aventra, but it turns out it's a regional bi-mode Stadler. More than acceptable.

According to the Real Time Trains link supplied upthread, it will be a 745 - presumably the Stansted variant as no first class.
BTW will a new timetable come into force in May? There's no mention of these 90 minute services in the current timtable which I thought would be valid until December.

 

[dk1]

According to the Real Time Trains link supplied upthread, it will be a 745 - presumably the Stansted variant as no first class.
BTW will a new timetable come into force in May? There's no mention of these 90 minute services in the current timtable which I thought would be valid until December.

We have been told 2x755s but anything can happen between now & then.

 

[Alfie1014]

And I understand it the times were chosen as they are pretty much the only round trip times that don’t completely destroy the timetables around them, though as mentioned the 19:00s impact is pretty devastating on the end of the evening peak. Yes the 19:00 is busy but at least half the passengers leave at Colchester and Manningtree, who will now be on the 19:02. It will start off as 2 x 755 as they will be the only trains available in May (assuming they are commissioned and in traffic by the next) long term I would assume that a 745 could be more appropriate.

 

[Class 170101]

I don't see how that is achievable, unless they get rid of all the freight services!

Like the passengers services they look to have been moved around too.

 

[LAX54]

Just seen the Norwich in 90 timings, as you say 2 Up and 2 Down, from the couple I have looked at, the times seem very tight arriving at Liverpool St on the 0900, a Southend arriving 2 mins ahead, and tight at Colchester on the Down with the 1900, with the Clacton just 2 or 3 mins ahead arriving at Colchester, via an app controlled approach into 1.

 

[LAX54]

Like the passengers services they look to have been moved around too.

on TRUST only GB timings are in there as yet (06.01), so no FL's at all yet from May entered.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

It's interesting if Norwich in 90 will make any difference to numbers of passengers, I've always believed to make a difference there needs to be consistency, if throughout the day it was more likely to be 90 mins than not then it would work but just 2 up and down, not so sure

 

[LAX54]

It's interesting if Norwich in 90 will make any difference to numbers of passengers, I've always believed to make a difference there needs to be consistency, if throughout the day it was more likely to be 90 mins than not then it would work but just 2 up and down, not so sure

But is it not just really a case of...we said 'Norwich in 90', and now we have given you that ? But how well loaded will be the question, at 0900 from Norwich and one stop at Ipswich, the arrival time in London is just 2 mins behind a Southend service, think 1K56 goes in 9 and 9P91 in to 10

The 1900 (9P90)down road, has a mere 3 mins behind the Clacton arriving in P1, it's not going to take much to have the Norwich running on 'yellows'

Looks like an 8 car 321 on a timing trip today (6th) Shenfield to Norwich and back again.

 

[Grumbler]

It's interesting if Norwich in 90 will make any difference to numbers of passengers, I've always believed to make a difference there needs to be consistency, if throughout the day it was more likely to be 90 mins than not then it would work but just 2 up and down, not so sure

I agree - at one time the only stops on the fastest services were Colchester and Ipswich, with very poor loadings between Ipswich and Norwich. So, apart possibly from some peak-hour services which I never use nowadays, all trains stop at Diss, and half at Stowmarket, and they load fairly well. It seems it's only my MP. Chloe Smith, who is keen on this 90 minute business.

What will be more useful IMNSHO is the third service (Aventra?) planned for each hour which I hope will serve all principal stations, thus introducing more journey opportunities without having to change. That would enable the fast Norwich services to cease calling at Manningtree and run nonstop between Colchester and London.

 

[43096]

I agree - at one time the only stops on the fastest services were Colchester and Ipswich, with very poor loadings between Ipswich and Norwich. So, apart possibly from some peak-hour services which I never use nowadays, all trains stop at Diss, and half at Stowmarket, and they load fairly well. It seems it's only my MP. Chloe Smith, who is keen on this 90 minute business.

What will be more useful IMNSHO is the third service (Aventra?) planned for each hour which I hope will serve all principal stations, thus introducing more journey opportunities without having to change. That would enable the fast Norwich services to cease calling at Manningtree and run nonstop between Colchester and London.

Going for a 3tph service should enable some speeding up. I would suggest something like:
1tph Norwich-Ipswich-Colchester-London
1tph Norwich-Diss-Ipswich-Manningtree-Colchester-London
1tph Norwich-Diss-Stowmarket-Ipswich-Manningtree-Colchester-Chelmsford-Stratford-London

The first two would be those worked by the IC FLIRTs, with the last the Aventra service.

Essentially, the extra compared with now is the first one, with much more limited stops.

 

[Grumbler]

Going for a 3tph service should enable some speeding up. I would suggest something like:
1tph Norwich-Ipswich-Colchester-London
1tph Norwich-Diss-Ipswich-Manningtree-Colchester-London
1tph Norwich-Diss-Stowmarket-Ipswich-Manningtree-Colchester-Chelmsford-Stratford-London

The first two would be those worked by the IC FLIRTs, with the last the Aventra service.

Essentially, the extra compared with now is the first one, with much more limited stops.

Agreed, though I would like to add Shenfield to the third one.

 

[LAX54]

Does Norwich actually 'need' 3 an hour all day ? Norwich to Diss would just about permit a 20 min service, however after Stowmarket when they mingle with the 2Wxx/2Lxx and the Class 4's it may get a bit sticky !
Certainly no room for a 3rd between 1400 and 1500, this path is taken with 6A33.

 

[Grumbler]

Does Norwich actually 'need' 3 an hour all day ? Norwich to Diss would just about permit a 20 min service, however after Stowmarket when they mingle with the 2Wxx/2Lxx and the Class 4's it may get a bit sticky !
Certainly no room for a 3rd between 1400 and 1500, this path is taken with 6A33.

Why not just run the third service as an extension of a London - Ipswich stopper?

 

[chubs]

But is it not just really a case of...we said 'Norwich in 90', and now we have given you that ?

Yep.

Usage is irrelevant.

If they actually deliver it a certain MP will use it as her re-election campaign.

Would have been much better if her and the equally useless other Norwich MP had put their heads together and thought about some of the other issues that affect the service in general.

 

[LAX54]

Why not just run the third service as an extension of a London - Ipswich stopper?

Which maybe is what they will do, if and when they decide to run 3 an hour, but, there will be certain hours that it is just not possible, 3 between Diss and Norwich is the absolute maximum, so when you have 6P41 / 6A33 etcthe paths will be lost.

 

[dk1]

It's interesting if Norwich in 90 will make any difference to numbers of passengers, I've always believed to make a difference there needs to be consistency, if throughout the day it was more likely to be 90 mins than not then it would work but just 2 up and down, not so sure

It has always been stated that the two initial trains are just to start with & there is ambition for more to be added in future.

 

[delticdave]

Which maybe is what they will do, if and when they decide to run 3 an hour, but, there will be certain hours that it is just not possible, 3 between Diss and Norwich is the absolute maximum, so when you have 6P41 / 6A33 etcthe paths will be lost.

Why only 3 tph between Diss & Norwich, long block sections / signal spacing?