East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[HowardGWR]

As pointed out, the options with a "Bedford South" are unlikely to have any direct connection to the longer-distance services. I hope in that case there is capacity for a service from Oxford to beyond to Bedford Midland as well as the services that continue towards Cambridge. Leicester and Nottingham to Oxford and Reading is very indirect and slow by rail compared with road. A through train to Leicester and Nottingham would be even better.

That seems a good point and so a north-east EWR egress/entrance from/to Bedford would seem preferable. Also, if one was simply considering where the best place for a Bedford station should be (an 'Hbf'), where would it best be situated? Would the bus station not be better moved to that location? The reason I ask this, is because as things are proposed, we have an extra southern station proposed for Bedford that isn't in Bedford. However, the present Bedford station does not seem well-placed for local bus services at all and not brilliantly situated for car access either. Do local people on here have a view on this? An analysis of how folk are best connected locally to a Bedford station that best serves the bus radial routes to its widespread suburbs could tip the balance as to how EWR serves Bedford and enters and exits it.

 

[Robin Edwards]

That seems a good point and so a north-east EWR egress/entrance from/to Bedford would seem preferable. Also, if one was simply considering where the best place for a Bedford station should be (an 'Hbf'), where would it best be situated? Would the bus station not be better moved to that location? The reason I ask this, is because as things are proposed, we have an extra southern station proposed for Bedford that isn't in Bedford. However, the present Bedford station does not seem well-placed for local bus services at all and not brilliantly situated for car access either. Do local people on here have a view on this? An analysis of how folk are best connected locally to a Bedford station that best serves the bus radial routes to its widespread suburbs could tip the balance as to how EWR serves Bedford and enters and exits it.

Take into account that Bedford bus station has only just been uplifted at cost and is only a short walk from existing Bedford Midland station.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Cardington Road LC is a big problem, as would be access to Priory Country Park. Further east there are many housing developments built on the old alignment.

also be aware that Sustrans R51 east from Bedford also runs over high-pressure gas pipeline that follows some of the old Bedford - Sandy alignment

 

[mwmbwls]

Bedford Midland has to be served, it is a major town on the route and it needs to be the interchange with East Midlands services. If they use a Bedford South, will East Midlands call there and Bedford. I suspect Midland will suffer a loss of frequency. How does Wixams fit in to this? Could that be combined with a Bedford South?

Questions which could be put at the forthcoming public consultations if you can make it?

The insertion of a new station has happened before with the opening of Luton Airport a short trundle south of Luton. I assume that all Bedford (Central) starters would stop at both stations but the case with Corby starters is unclear. As for MML trains, if they were to stop at Bedford South could not both Bedford and Luton stops be removed?

CONSULTATION EVENTS ON THE EWR ROUTE FROM BEDFORD TO CAMBRIDGE TO BE HELD AT/ON/AT

• St Neots: Monday 11 February, 330-730pm (The Priory Centre, Priory Lane, St Neots PE19 2BH)
• Bedford: Friday 15 February, 330–730pm (Scott Hall, Barford Avenue, Bedford MK42 0DS)
• Bassingbourn: Saturday 16 February, 10am–2pm (Community Primary School, Brook Road, Bassingbourn SG8 5NP)
• Potton: Tuesday 19 February, 330–730pm (Potton & District Club34 Station Road, Potton, Sandy SG19 2PZ)
• Cambridge: Friday 22 February, 330–730pm (The University Centre, Granta Place, Cambridge CB2 1RU)
• Orwell: Tuesday 26 February, 2–6pm (Orwell Village Hall, 32-66 High St, Orwell, Royston SG8 5QN)
• Sandy: Saturday 2 March, 10am–2pm (Sandy Village Hall, Medusa Way, Sandy SG19 1BN)

 

[DarloRich]

The insertion of a new station has happened before with the opening of Luton Airport a short trundle south of Luton. I assume that all Bedford (Central) starters would stop at both stations but the case with Corby starters is unclear. As for MML trains, if they were to stop at Bedford South could not both Bedford and Luton stops be removed?

answer: that is outside of the scope of our project and the responsibility of the train service provider.

 

[paok]

Rail Engineer article here which goes over a lot already covered here but useful for those looking at a glance: https://www.railengineer.uk/2019/01...-alternative-routes-for-bedford-to-cambridge/

The East West Railway Company has just released details of five alternative routes for a new railway between Bedford and Cambridge as part of the East West Rail development.

Reinstating a rail route between Oxford and Cambridge, and on to East Anglia, has been under development for a number of years. The Western Section – Oxford to Bedford – is well underway. Phase 1, a double-track upgrade between Oxford and Bicester Village, was completed in December 2016.

Phase 2, reinstating and upgrading the line between Bicester Village and Bedford, with additional improved routes from Oxford to Milton Keynes and Milton Keynes to Aylesbury, both via Bletchley which will get two extra platforms, will commence construction later this year. Services should commence in 2023.

 

[si404]

No consultation event near Cambourne?

 

[paok]

No consultation event near Cambourne?

Cambourne: Saturday 2 March, 10:00pm – 2:00pm

Cambridge Belfry, Back Lane, Cambourne, Cambridge, CB23 6BW

 

[edwin_m]

Build a new build rail line around the northern edge of the urban area - just as they plan with Bedford in the options that serve Midland.

If being on a branch is good enough for MK, it's definitely good enough for Bedford. Ideally neither should be, but Bedford South is far from the end of the world.

A lot more money would be at stake for MK, as it's a case of building a new line (and possibly enhancing WCML capacity too) versus using an existing line with relatively minor upgrades. Bedford needs a new line whichever way it goes so the cost is more evenly balanced.

The difference in connectivity is that Reading/Oxford have direct services to Birmingham and Manchester and other WCML stations are accessible with one change. As I previously noted, rail links between Reading/Oxford and Leicester/Nottingham are very poor. But of course by the time even the western part of EWR is finished, Bedford to Leicester or beyond is likely to be possible only by changing at Kettering. So the ideal would probably be an extra service Reading/Oxford to Leicester/Nottingham, which wouldn't depend on the Bedford option chosen but is unlikely to happen either way. Maybe Oxford to Corby would be a good one to look at, opening up another deprived area to a centre of employment and allowing MML connections with only one change?

 

[DarloRich]

no idea on a favoured route although i want it as cheap as possible and to serve Bedford Midland.

 

[ABB125]

I think there needs to be a triangular junction near the Bedford South site so you could have direct Oxford-Cambridge via Bedford South as well as services reversing into and out of Bedford Midland.
There also need to be more "local" services on the different stretches of the line, such as Cambridge-Bedford. I struggle to believe that there wouldn't be capacity for these, as surely you can fit more than about 3tph on a two-track railway?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure how you put an East-West heavy rail link through Milton Keynes. Maybe convert H6 into a railway line?

MK is ideally placed halfway between Oxford and Cambridge and between London and Birmingham. It's just a shame that E-W road and rail links weren't considered when the town was being planned.

The trackbed of the Newport Pagnell branch is mostly still there as a cycle path for one.

 

[DaveN]

The insertion of a new station has happened before with the opening of Luton Airport a short trundle south of Luton. I assume that all Bedford (Central) starters would stop at both stations.

I think that is a very big assumption. I would expect that the successors to Thameslink would want to minimise the numbers of services that stop at Bedford South to avoid cutting into the turnaround times at Bedford and to try and retain as much Bedford ->London commuter traffic as possible after the re-introduction of London->Corby peak East Midland services. Perhaps just the Bedford->Gatwick airport via Redhill stopping services? Remember 2tph is now considered a reasonable Thameslink service and is what Sandy gets. Remember even though it serves the airport (obviously) Luton Airport doesn't get any stops in any of the faster peak time services that go to Bedford.

I also would guess that we will only be talking 2tph (1 Oxford->Cambridge and 1 Bletchley->Cambridge maybe) on the new section of line in any case?

 

[DaveN]

Which brings me to another point, the reports don't seem to mention platform capacity at platforms 1 -3 at Bedford Midland (especially in the peaks) as a problem which seems odd.
Especially as we will be talking 2 extra southbound trains an hour when the London->Corbys stop and 1tph Oxford->Bedford when the western section in completed (I assume the Oxford->Bedford won't fit in platform 1A) compared to to-day before any additional services towards Cambridge

 

[eastdyke]

Which brings me to another point, the reports don't seem to mention platform capacity at platforms 1 -3 at Bedford Midland (especially in the peaks) as a problem which seems odd.
Especially as we will be talking 2 extra southbound trains an hour when the London->Corbys stop and 1tph Oxford->Bedford when the western section in completed (I assume the Oxford->Bedford won't fit in platform 1A) compared to to-day before any additional services towards Cambridge

I believe that 1A is around 80m, long enough for the 2/3 car Turbostars (or equivalent) that they seem to be thinking of using
No doubt platforming will be a consideration if a Bedford Midland option should be chosen for Central section.

 

[DaveN]

No doubt platforming will be a consideration if a Bedford Midland option should be chosen for Central section.

Absolutely - so I was surprised that it wasn't mentioned as it is an "advantage" for the Bedford South alternatives - in the same way as the lack of interaction with the Midland Main line is

 

[richieb1971]

I want to know when Bedford county council will talk with EWR about Wixams station. It will be built first and so it seems to me to have the highest consideration so we don't fluff it up. If Bedford south is being built by EWR and 1km away you have Bedford county council building a Wixams station, that seems stupid to me.

Then you have BDM, which can only facilitate EWR long trains if something gives on the THL side. Again, move those THL trains to sidings they do nothing but block paths sitting in the station on the through roads. Its a selfish stance to want to keep that ability when new things are coming along.

So firstly tell THL they have to change their operations because of platform capacity, or build sidings somewhere north of Bedford for them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which brings me to another point, the reports don't seem to mention platform capacity at platforms 1 -3 at Bedford Midland (especially in the peaks) as a problem which seems odd.
Especially as we will be talking 2 extra southbound trains an hour when the London->Corbys stop and 1tph Oxford->Bedford when the western section in completed (I assume the Oxford->Bedford won't fit in platform 1A) compared to to-day before any additional services towards Cambridge

Time for a rebuild? In particular it would be useful to either have platforms on both the up and down fast, or a MKC Platform 5 style arrangement of one platform serving both as a loop. With EWR there would be a very good case for all the ICs to stop there.

 

[mr_jrt]

Quite. With 1A made into a full platform you have a ready-made segregated island for EWR. I don't know if they envisage merging onto the slows for a short run before branching off again eastwards (which would create a terrible bottleneck), or widening the formation to 6 tracks until the divergence, but either could work.

Platforms 2 & 3 then become the dedicated slow line platforms, and any rebuild only has to focus on how to handle the fast lines. Given the curvature I'm not sure what is preferable there...if all LDHS services were to stop there though then slower speeds from loops etc. shouldn't be a problem.

 

[richieb1971]

Mr jrt, eastwards from where?

 

[MadCommuter]

The documents refer to a possible loss of Bedford maintenence depot. I presume they mean the one directly south of the station? If so I presume they will be realigning the existing Marston Vale in to Midland?

Platform 1A will definitely need extending through the booking hall. The station dates from the early 80s and is getting small for the throughput of passengers.

 

[hooverboy]

The documents refer to a possible loss of Bedford maintenence depot. I presume they mean the one directly south of the station? If so I presume they will be realigning the existing Marston Vale in to Midland?

Platform 1A will definitely need extending through the booking hall. The station dates from the early 80s and is getting small for the throughput of passengers.

yes,the one they have just finished refurbishing!

that's planning for you!

it would imply that they intend to scrap the st johns curve,and then connect up to MML just south of kempston bridge, trundle along for a few hundred metres, and then split off and enter bedford midland through what is presently the scrapyard/depot over a new overbridge crossing the river.
presently a road bridge there too but I guess that would also be remodelled.

hence why I said many moons ago that a TMD/ train presentation facility on what is currently stewartby brickworks would be so useful!
(applies equally to bletchley sidings if you want a chord into MKC.)

 

[mr_jrt]

Mr jrt, eastwards from where?

Well, if you run through Bedford Midland and don't want to reverse, then at some point you're going to have to diverge from the MML to head towards the ECML. I suspect given the built up areas of northern Bedford this would probably somewhere around Clapham.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

yes,the one they have just finished refurbishing!

that's planning for you!

This is the UK, rest assured there will need to be many more refurbishments before anything happens in that area. There will be decades of consultations, reports, reviews, inquiries, amendments, and lots of £££££ spent before a foot of track is laid. Just look at the 40 year history of the still unbuilt Stonehenge tunnel to see how we do infrastructure.

 

[HowardGWR]

Well, if you run through Bedford Midland and don't want to reverse, then at some point you're going to have to diverge from the MML to head towards the ECML. I suspect given the built up areas of northern Bedford this would probably somewhere around Clapham.

Could one envisage yet another station in NE Bedford? Most of its suburbia is there.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The documents refer to a possible loss of Bedford maintenence depot. I presume they mean the one directly south of the station? If so I presume they will be realigning the existing Marston Vale in to Midland?

Platform 1A will definitely need extending through the booking hall. The station dates from the early 80s and is getting small for the throughput of passengers.

Indeed, it could do with a full rebuild to something rather more substantial befitting 4 million a year! If they needed the land to build more platforms, perhaps a high-level concourse over the tracks would work well, a bit Reading-esque.

Mind you Bletchley has just over 1 million and has pretty much exactly what Cheddington has, though admittedly actually open

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

https://www.bedfordindependent.co.uk/east-west-rail-route-must-go-through-midland-road/

Concerns have been raised about three of the proposed routes for the new East West rail line and how they could affect plans for the highly-sought after Wixams train station.

However, the East West Rail Company says that if Wixams gets a train station it will most likely be the ‘Bedford South’ station spoken about in proposed routes: A, B and C.

Read: East West Rail reveal five route options for Bedford to Cambridge line

Bedford’s Mayor, Dave Hodgson, raised concerns while commenting on the consultation of the routes, saying: “A station to the south of Bedford would delay or even threaten the already long-awaited Wixams station altogether.”

But, a spokesperson for the East West Rail company said: “If one of the three routes with a new station to the south of Bedford is chosen as the preferred route and Wixams station goes ahead, there would be a strong case for EWR using this new station…

“If Wixams does not go ahead, we would create a new station somewhere else in the broad area to the south of Bedford. We’ll continue to work closely with Network Rail and Bedford Borough Council as plans for a station at Wixams progress.”

Regardless, all leading political parties in Bedford say they believe the East West route, which will connect Oxford with Cambridge, should come through Bedford’s existing Midland Road Station.

Bedford Mayor, Dave Hodgson (Lib-Dem), maintains that routes D and E are the best options: “This is a passenger railway, so it should stop where passengers are and where passengers can get to…

“Let’s maximise the benefits of this excellent project by having it serve local people and employers, and let’s all support that by speaking up for a route via Bedford.”

Conservative Mayoral Candidate, Cllr Carofano agrees: “The best route for Bedford would be option D which would, with the associated investment, enable us to improve our often gridlocked traffic flows, carry out the revival of the long neglected Midland Road area and generally help boost the Town Centre.

“It is not however the cheapest or most convenient of the three options and we will have to lobby for it very strongly as a Council.

“The point must be made also that the ridiculously prolonged consultation process is not helping the Council formulate a comprehensive transport strategy which is now long overdue.”

Bedford and Kempston MP, Mohammad Yasin (Lab), said he too would prefer the route to go through the existing station on Midland Road: “I’d obviously prefer this new service to run from Bedford Station.

“But I do recognise that a new rail link will bring extra traffic into the town too, and so works should take this into account and include improved facilities for rail users.

“It’s important that as many people as possible respond to the consultation.”

MP for North East Bedfordshire, Alistair Burt (Con), added that it was important everyone takes part in the consultation: “This is an exciting and ambitious project that will link communities and reduce travel costs and journey times between them.

“It will help create opportunities for businesses to grow and create jobs, and support housing growth in the area.”

Five routes are now being consulted on with Bedfordians being encouraged to take part to make sure their voices are heard.

Any Thoughts on the Article?

 

[CptCharlee]

I really hope a Bristol to Cambridge service does come out of this.

Bristol/Swindon to Oxford is very well used. So many people switch to the Oxford service at Didcot. The demand for Oxford from the west is certainly clear.

 

[DarloRich]

MK is ideally placed halfway between Oxford and Cambridge and between London and Birmingham. It's just a shame that E-W road and rail links weren't considered when the town was being planned.

I suggest that at the time MK was being planned the road links were considered. What was not was the way in which society and travel within society has changed. The M1 was the way of the future.

Build a new build rail line around the northern edge of the urban area - just as they plan with Bedford in the options that serve Midland.

If being on a branch is good enough for MK, it's definitely good enough for Bedford. Ideally neither should be, but Bedford South is far from the end of the world.

I think we need to be realistic - you are essentially advocating vast expense for little reward as I suspect you would need an entirely new line between Oxford, Milton Keynes and Bedford.

 

[si404]

I suggest that at the time MK was being planned the road links were considered. What was not was the way in which society and travel within society has changed. The M1 was the way of the future.

Odd then, that they built the New City along the old road (which they built a bypass for), rather than the Motorway - keeping access to the M1 really rather poor (OK, some quality grid roads end up at/near J14, but if they built the A5(D) for N-S traffic, you'd have thought something of a similar quality between it and the M1 if the M1 was really important to the New City).

I think we need to be realistic

Absolutely. You missed the flow of the conversation before that post, including the second line of what you quoted, and thus the point (that of realism vs idealism) that I too was making.

Bedford idealists are demanding that it has to go through Midland, with South being totally absurd. MK is on a branch, yet no one is advocating putting it on a through route - despite the branch being longer and the town much more important. I pointed this out, someone wondered how MK could be put on the through route and could only come up with "a tunnel under H6?" and I gave a much more realistic solution to that unrealistic scenario, and reiterated my point that Bedford South - while not ideal for serving Bedford - isn't the disaster the idealists are suggesting it would be.