Rail Freight Flows and News UK

[furnessvale]

There seems to have been a trial run today of a potential Tees Dock to Daventry service but I have no further details.

 

[Freightmaster]

I didn't realise that Maritime operate the Castle Donnington site, in that case it should have a bright future. When I wrote my post I was actually thinking of the M&S siding.

You are correct that the original Castle Donnington terminal was nothing more than a
planning permission 'box ticking exercise', but the new Railfreight hub which furnessvale
referred to in his post (official name East Midlands Gateway) is a completely different
kettle of fish!



MARK

 

[Aictos]

Thanks all for getting this thread off to a good start. I look forward to many more interesting posts.

On 1st November, a post appeared on GBRf's fb page:
''GBRf are delighted to announce a seven-year deal with Hanson UK for rail freight services from Ketton cement works in Rutland and Ribblesdale cement works in Lancashire, to terminals at London King’s Cross, Avonmouth and Mossend.

This new deal will see GBRf operate on average nine trains a week transporting cement in tank wagons to support major construction projects in London as well as the development of Hinkley Point C Nuclear Power Station.''

I think this a contract renewal, as GBRf have been operating trains from Ketton and Ribblesdale for a while already.
https://www.facebook.com/GBRailfreight

I’m confused, what terminal at Kings Cross?

Do they not mean Churchyard Sidings outside St Pancras?

 

[pmb]

I’m confused, what terminal at Kings Cross?

Do they not mean Churchyard Sidings outside St Pancras?

Yeah, that's a more precise location. I guess they say it's at King's Cross because it's so close to King's Cross.

 

[Aictos]

Yeah, that's a more precise location. I guess they say it's at King's Cross because it's so close to King's Cross.

I’m sure there’s something in the area between Kings Cross and St Pancras that you see as you come off the HS1 route that looks like a terminal, is that the one I mentioned?

 

[3973EXL]

Churchyard sidings, downside from St P are recent. The terminal is separate, located to the east. Trains used to run into the old Kings Cross Goods until all the redevelopment.

 

[72C]

Hi, I've noticed the sand/clay waste traffic from St Blazey, Cornwall to London appears to be nolonger running although it still shows on RTT.
Does anybody know what the future holds please?

 

[pmb]

Hi, I've noticed the sand/clay waste traffic from St Blazey, Cornwall to London appears to be nolonger running although it still shows on RTT.
Does anybody know what the future holds please?

There is a current DB Cargo driver named Adrian Nicholls who has a Flickr site. A few months ago, replying to comments to one of his photos he said that the traffic was expected to ramp up to possibly 12 trains a week, and apparently this was one of the reasons why DB was retaining staff at Westbury even though they had lost the Mendip contract. I guess we'll just have to see what happens. Maybe it's just a temporary lull in traffic...

 

[Peter Bonner]

May I ask why the majority of freight services at York pass through the usually busy station rather than use the avoiding lines?

 

[72C]

There is a current DB Cargo driver named Adrian Nicholls who has a Flickr site. A few months ago, replying to comments to one of his photos he said that the traffic was expected to ramp up to possibly 12 trains a week, and apparently this was one of the reasons why DB was retaining staff at Westbury even though they had lost the Mendip contract. I guess we'll just have to see what happens. Maybe it's just a temporary lull in traffic...

Many thanks, lets hope so.

 

[Freightmaster]

May I ask why the majority of freight services at York pass through the usually busy station rather than use the avoiding lines?

It's common for southbound freight to do that because the Up Slow swaps over from the
east to the west side of the ECML fast lines at Skelton Bridge Junction, and a loaded freight
train which has been brought to a stand can block all running lines in the area for several
minutes while it snakes over from one side to the other.

Because of this it's normally easier to let a heavy, southbound freight run via the station;
most northbound freight services are empty/class 4 these days, so some of those can be
pathed via the station too without causing any conflicts.




MARK

 

[furnessvale]

There seems to have been a trial run today of a potential Tees Dock to Daventry service but I have no further details.

Adding to my own post.

This train appears to have run 3 days this week and the terminal at the DIRFT end is Tesco. I wonder if this is the start of the long awaited DIRFT Tesco to the North East service?

 

[Photohunter71]

Does network rail still own the former Portobello freightliner terminal? If so, what are the plans for the site. What about the line to Leith docks,what does the future hold for this line?

 

[pmb]

This train appears to have run 3 days this week

And on it's way to Daventry again today, currently near Alfreton.

 

[Peter Bonner]

It's common for southbound freight to do that because the Up Slow swaps over from the
east to the west side of the ECML fast lines at Skelton Bridge Junction, and a loaded freight
train which has been brought to a stand can block all running lines in the area for several
minutes while it snakes over from one side to the other.

Because of this it's normally easier to let a heavy, southbound freight run via the station;
most northbound freight services are empty/class 4 these days, so some of those can be
pathed via the station too without causing any conflicts.




MARK

It's common for southbound freight to do that because the Up Slow swaps over from the
east to the west side of the ECML fast lines at Skelton Bridge Junction, and a loaded freight
train which has been brought to a stand can block all running lines in the area for several
minutes while it snakes over from one side to the other.

Because of this it's normally easier to let a heavy, southbound freight run via the station;
most northbound freight services are empty/class 4 these days, so some of those can be
pathed via the station too without causing any conflicts.




MARK

Hi

Thanks for ur reply. I had suspected the reason was as you outline. Have to say I was at York about 1100 theee weeks ago when a northbound empty GBRF coal train was trapped in the station by other late running trains and was stuck in platform for 25 mins, thereby blocking other trains. So much easier for it to have gone round the curve!

 

[Donny_m]

Not a flow as such but wondering if anyone has any info as all of Bristol’s freight seems to have dropped off.

- Whats going to happen to Avonmouth BHT owned by DBC? Not been a train in there since a Colas coal trial in 2017. Still staff in the offices now and then what are they doing in there?

- Whats going to happen to the Freightliner terminal in Bedminster now container traffic has moved to Avonmouth Wharf?

- Portbury doesn’t get coal or car trains any more, only new trains deliveries currently, I wonder how long his line will be viable.

- Bristol east depot had a Banbury reservoir flow for a while early in 2019 this seems to have stopped in the summer, I wonder if this yard will see a flow again?

Any info kindly received.

 

[furnessvale]

A second daily iport Doncaster to Felixstowe and return started today. Now 5 trains each way daily. Not bad in 12 months from opening.

 

[pmb]

Portbury doesn’t get coal or car trains any more, only new trains deliveries currently, I wonder how long his line will be viable.

If the line to Portishead is ever reopened, I think the freight line will be upgraded as part of the scheme.

A second daily iport Doncaster to Felixstowe and return started today. Now 5 trains each way daily. Not bad in 12 months from opening.

I found an article with more information on iPort's website: https://www.iportrail.com/iport-rail-launches-fifth-daily-rail-service-to-meet-booming-demand/
'The new route will run five days a week to and from iPort Rail in Doncaster and Felixstowe and is operated by GB Railfreight. The other four existing services at iPort Rail include the terminal’s first Felixstowe route, as well as two daily routes to Teesport and one to Southampton.
The new service operates Monday to Friday, arriving at 23.25 and departing at 02.57.'
The new loops on the Felixstowe line must be being made good use of!

 

[furnessvale]

If the line to Portishead is ever reopened, I think the freight line will be upgraded as part of the scheme.


I found an article with more information on iPort's website: https://www.iportrail.com/iport-rail-launches-fifth-daily-rail-service-to-meet-booming-demand/
'The new route will run five days a week to and from iPort Rail in Doncaster and Felixstowe and is operated by GB Railfreight. The other four existing services at iPort Rail include the terminal’s first Felixstowe route, as well as two daily routes to Teesport and one to Southampton.
The new service operates Monday to Friday, arriving at 23.25 and departing at 02.57.'
The new loops on the Felixstowe line must be being made good use of!

Sadly, the full potential of the new loops on the Felixstowe branch cannot be realised until improvements are made to the line across the Fens to take all the additional trains. I don't think the work on this line has even been authorised yet, let alone started! You couldn't make it up.

 

[pmb]

Sadly, the full potential of the new loops on the Felixstowe branch cannot be realised until improvements are made to the line across the Fens to take all the additional trains. I don't think the work on this line has even been authorised yet, let alone started! You couldn't make it up.

Would that be improvements to signalling mainly? Most, if not all, signals are still semaphores along there.

 

[furnessvale]

Would that be improvements to signalling mainly? Most, if not all, signals are still semaphores along there.

I think signalling will help in the long term, but I understand at least two junctions are single leads at the moment and I think there is some single line as well. No doubt someone from the area will have chapter and verse.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Back in 1974 my dissertation at Salford University was titled "The future of wagonload freight on BR". My analysis was in reaction to the view at the time that BR should concentrate on trainload flows and gradually close-down loss-making wagonload operations. I argued that a slimmed-down, efficient and economical less-than-trainload offer was essential for retaining a vast swathe of traffics, not least defence and nuclear movements. The traditional vacuum- and un-fitted freight network eventually finished in 1985 and its replacement, Speedlink, thrived for a time but eventually succumbed to unfettered road haulage in 1991.

The emergence in the last few years of domestic intermodal services radiating from Daventry raises the prospect of smaller flows being catered-for. If you can attract a new flow loading at Tilbury of Purfleet for example the boxes could be switched at Daventry for connections to Wentloog, Seaforth, Mossend or Tees Dock. The extra traffic could make the economics of less-busy routes more attractive.

 

[Photohunter71]

What are the prospects for "Enterprise" runs returning? Are they just too small and infrequent to consider?

 

[Oxfordblues]

/

What are the prospects for "Enterprise" runs returning? Are they just too small and infrequent to consider?

What killed Speedlink and Enterprise was the huge costs of tripping small numbers of wagons between marshalling yards and a plethora of private sidings and local loading points, plus the expenses involved in shunting and remarshalling trunk trains.

My optimism is based on the recent emergence of a hub at Daventry for intermodal flows in trains radiating to Scotland, Teesside, South Wales and North Thamesside. Already sugar tanks from Silvertown to various Scottish destinations are switched between trains at Daventry and there is scope for more such flows as further spokes are added to the hub. Of course there's no intention to make Daventry into a modern-day marshalling yard, but the additional traffic would surely make the less-busy trains more profitable.

Already Freightliner runs a trip from Wentloog to Barry and back for a flow which doesn't justify a complete train and I imagine a similar arrangement will apply to Highland Spring traffic from Blackford.

 

[furnessvale]

/

My optimism is based on the recent emergence of a hub at Daventry for intermodal flows in trains radiating to Scotland, Teesside, South Wales and North Thamesside. Already sugar tanks from Silvertown to various Scottish destinations are switched between trains at Daventry and there is scope for more such flows as further spokes are added to the hub. Of course there's no intention to make Daventry into a modern-day marshalling yard, but the additional traffic would surely make the less-busy trains more profitable.

Already Freightliner runs a trip from Wentloog to Barry and back for a flow which doesn't justify a complete train and I imagine a similar arrangement will apply to Highland Spring traffic from Blackford.

Is the sugar still on rail? I used to see the tanks regularly but I haven't seen any for 12 months or more. Maybe they are other trains in the middle of the night these days.

 

[Photohunter71]

/

What killed Speedlink and Enterprise was the huge costs of tripping small numbers of wagons between marshalling yards and a plethora of private sidings and local loading points, plus the expenses involved in shunting and remarshalling trunk trains.

My optimism is based on the recent emergence of a hub at Daventry for intermodal flows in trains radiating to Scotland, Teesside, South Wales and North Thamesside. Already sugar tanks from Silvertown to various Scottish destinations are switched between trains at Daventry and there is scope for more such flows as further spokes are added to the hub. Of course there's no intention to make Daventry into a modern-day marshalling yard, but the additional traffic would surely make the less-busy trains more profitable.

Already Freightliner runs a trip from Wentloog to Barry and back for a flow which doesn't justify a complete train and I imagine a similar arrangement will apply to Highland Spring traffic from Blackford.

I agree with your optimism! I just wondered if we'd ever see enterprise runs reappearing in the future. Just a pity some marshalling yards now no longer exist (Millerhill for example). I would however like to see renewed rail usage of the Portobello freightliner terminal which has sat derelict for at least 2 decades. One of the container cranes are still extant, however I have no idea if it is still able to operate, given the fact it's been static for 20 or so years, is it still viable, or should it be removed and condemned? My own personal view is, if there are no plans for a freight hub there in the future, then the crane should be scrapped and the land sold off.(not that I would want that)

 

[JKF]

Not a flow as such but wondering if anyone has any info as all of Bristol’s freight seems to have dropped off.

- Whats going to happen to Avonmouth BHT owned by DBC? Not been a train in there since a Colas coal trial in 2017. Still staff in the offices now and then what are they doing in there?

- Whats going to happen to the Freightliner terminal in Bedminster now container traffic has moved to Avonmouth Wharf?

- Portbury doesn’t get coal or car trains any more, only new trains deliveries currently, I wonder how long his line will be viable.

- Bristol east depot had a Banbury reservoir flow for a while early in 2019 this seems to have stopped in the summer, I wonder if this yard will see a flow again?

Any info kindly received.

Wasn’t there some gypsum traffic to Portbury a couple of years ago? I remember seeing a press release about it, did it ever happen and why did it stop? Other than coal which was busy for a long time they don’t seem to have sustained many flows from the port.

Rail vehicle deliveries have been variable in frequency, about once a month earlier in the year, last month was busy sometimes with two a week, but it’s died down again for the last couple of weeks. Highlight was when they sent a pair of 20s down the line on one of those workings a few weeks ago which I managed to view from the suspension bridge! Also getting railhead treatment trains although was cancelled this week.

 

[Donny_m]

Think the Gypsum happened once or twice sounds like one of those PR pipe dream. From what I hear there is stuff over the tracks in Portbury now.

There’s a video of someone doing a bus tour around portbury docks and you can see a load of empty CAF northern shells I assume coming to llanwern but they would be lorry hauled.

 

[pmb]

With the introduction of GWR's new Winter Timetable there's now many additional passenger services on the GWML. This has resulted in some freight flows being relegated to secondary routes. A couple of examples are the 4O57 13:29 from Cardiff Wentloog to Southampton MCT liner and the 6C03 09:33 from Northolt Sdgs to Severnside-SITA binliner, which now run via the B&H instead of the GWML.
Of interest is the fact that the DB operated 'binliner' brings a DB operated service back onto the B&H again after the loss of the Mendips contract.
Does anyone know of any other flows that have been affected by the new Winter Timetables, not just in the west but anywhere in the country?

 

[AndrewE]

With the introduction of GWR's new Winter Timetable there's now many additional passenger services on the GWML. This has resulted in some freight flows being relegated to secondary routes. A couple of examples are the 4O57 13:29 from Cardiff Wentloog to Southampton MCT liner and the 6C03 09:33 from Northolt Sdgs to Severnside-SITA binliner, which now run via the B&H instead of the GWML.
Of interest is the fact that the DB operated 'binliner' brings a DB operated service back onto the B&H again after the loss of the Mendips contract.
Does anyone know of any other flows that have been affected by the new Winter Timetables, not just in the west but anywhere in the country?

Does Bath-Westbury-Salisbury really count as the B&H? I spent ages trying to work out how a Cardiff to Southampton train could use the "direct" line from Reading to Taunton (which is what I thought the B&H was - if you mean Berks and Hants) before looking up its route on RTT.