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Caledonian Sleeper

yorkie

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Indeed!

Just a reminder to all that this thread is to discuss the Caledonian Sleeper.

The forum has plenty of capacity for additional threads to discuss any other matters; there is no need to pack many different topics into one unwieldy thread ;)

Thanks!
 
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side effect

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Well last night's London Euston (EUS) to Edinburgh (EDB) is the last time we use the seated section.

Felt like I was sitting on a vibro plate. Most uncomfy seats ever. One was stretched out on the floor.
 
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route101

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Well last night's London Euston (EUS) to Edinburgh (EDB) is the last time we use the seated section.

Felt like I was sitting on a vibro plate. Most uncomfy seats ever. One was stretched out on the floor.

Seen a few lying on the floor and in the luggage/bike bit when i used seated in September
 

jagardner1984

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Seen a few lying on the floor and in the luggage/bike bit when i used seated in September

The passengers have worked out how to make a temporary couchette, even if it’s beyond the wit of the great National Rail system to provide the permanent one for which there is such an obvious market ....
 

Kite159

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Seen a few lying on the floor and in the luggage/bike bit when i used seated in September

The wheelchair area is quite popular for sleeping on the floor (when it is not being used by a wheelchair user)

---------

Is the AC still set to height of Spanish Summer mode or have they turned the heating up a bit to cope with the cold nights?
 

Struner

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You would see this on ferries as well. Proper hikers - i.e. those with lightweight camping equipment &c, would simply roll out their mats & sleeping bags.
Nowadays you’re obliged to get a cabin on the North Sea crossings.
 

Jude99

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You would see this on ferries as well. Proper hikers - i.e. those with lightweight camping equipment &c, would simply roll out their mats & sleeping bags.
Nowadays you’re obliged to get a cabin on the North Sea crossings.
Indeed, I'd've been quite content to kip on my rollmat on a bench seat during my recent Hull Rotterdam trip but had to pay for a cabin. It was cheaper than my upcoming Crewe - Fort William sleeper cabin, though!
 

xotGD

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Perhaps they should remove half of the seats from the seated coaches and offer 'floor class'?
 
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Perhaps they should remove half of the seats from the seated coaches and offer 'floor class'?

It would be a damn site more comfortable than the current offering. Although unless the air conditioning is changed I'd recommend a minimum of a three season sleeping bag for comfort.
 

side effect

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Got kicked out at Edinburgh last night 00:24. They wouldn't let us even go out the Jury's Inn entrance, so we had to walk under the station to get there. That messes tonight's plan up unless you can ask for permission but I wouldn't hold my breadth.

What a contrast to Carlisle who opened a waiting room for us.
 
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ejstubbs

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The wouldnt let us even go out the Jurys inn entrance so we had to walk under the station to get there.

Under the station? Do you mean you were sent out the Calton Road exit and walked down to New Street, which talks you under the approach tracks to the east of the station? I can't think of any other route that could possibly be described as "under" the station.

(Would surely have been quicker to go up the ramp and left along Waverley Bridge to get to Market Street. Or even up to Princes Street and over North Bridge then down the Scotsman Steps - or up to the High Street and then left down to Chalmers Close if you're feeling adventurous.)
 

leightonbd

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Got kicked out at Edi last night 12 24. The wouldnt let us even go out the Jurys inn entrance so we had to walk under the station to get there. That messes tonight's plan up unless you can ask for permission but I wouldnt hold my breadth.

What a contrast to Carlisle who opened a waiting room for us.


Why were you hanging round Edinburgh at 12.24? The sleeper left on time.

Edinburgh is known to close overnight (I know people who begged a favour to get the highland sleeper from Euston and alight at Edinburgh, on grounds of urgent travel - a funeral - and they had to climb over a gate to get out at 4am).
 

bobbyrail

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Got kicked out at Edi last night 12 24. The wouldnt let us even go out the Jurys inn entrance so we had to walk under the station to get there. That messes tonight's plan up unless you can ask for permission but I wouldnt hold my breadth.

What a contrast to Carlisle who opened a waiting room for us.

Sorry please forgive me i am a little confused with this post, what service were you on and why were you "kicked out at Edi"
 

6Z09

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Got kicked out at Edi last night 12 24. The wouldnt let us even go out the Jurys inn entrance so we had to walk under the station to get there. That messes tonight's plan up unless you can ask for permission but I wouldnt hold my breadth.

What a contrast to Carlisle who opened a waiting room for us.
Need to give a bit of background to this post, why were you kicked out? Why were you there? Same for Carlisle!
 

Kite159

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Why were you hanging round Edinburgh at 12.24? The sleeper left on time.

Edinburgh is known to close overnight (I know people who begged a favour to get the highland sleeper from Euston and alight at Edinburgh, on grounds of urgent travel - a funeral - and they had to climb over a gate to get out at 4am).

Which seems strange as surely the station is opened to allow the rare passenger who is travelling towards Dalmuir & beyond access so they can board the Fort William seats.

Although I would imagine the number of passengers boarding the Fort William sleeper at Edinburgh will be minimal
 

TimboM

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Which seems strange as surely the station is opened to allow the rare passenger who is travelling towards Dalmuir & beyond access so they can board the Fort William seats.
Waverley opens again at 04:00. FTW northbound (1Y11) scheduled to leave at 04:50
 

Bletchleyite

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Why were you hanging round Edinburgh at 12.24? The sleeper left on time.

Edinburgh is known to close overnight (I know people who begged a favour to get the highland sleeper from Euston and alight at Edinburgh, on grounds of urgent travel - a funeral - and they had to climb over a gate to get out at 4am).

Which is a *bit* bizarre as the seated coach is a day train from there at 04whatever. So the station should be open in some form to let such passengers in - but I too have heard of it not being.
 

Bletchleyite

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H&S would never allow that, far too sensible a suggestion...

You *might* actually get away with "Alpine bunks" (basically a continuous shelf with pads on it) with some dividers, as people would sleep sideways. Doubt it'd sell in the UK though. The sort of thing you get on some Indonesian ferries.

If people just kipped on the floor they'd take up the same amount of space as sleeper bunks if you think about it.
 

alistairlees

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Which is a *bit* bizarre as the seated coach is a day train from there at 04whatever. So the station should be open in some form to let such passengers in - but I too have heard of it not being.

the station opens at 04.00 as TimboM has already said:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/passengers/our-stations/edinburgh-waverley

The people who climbed over the gate at 04.00 should probably just have waited for ... oh 30 seconds. Probably makes for a good dinner party story though.
 

MrEd

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Got kicked out at Edi last night 12 24. The wouldnt let us even go out the Jurys inn entrance so we had to walk under the station to get there. That messes tonight's plan up unless you can ask for permission but I wouldnt hold my breadth.

What a contrast to Carlisle who opened a waiting room for us.

Were you caught up in some disruption of some kind? I’m struggling to understand how you ended up at Waverley (or Carlisle) at that time of night with no onward travel plans (or accommodation), unless you got stuck somehow? Had you missed the Edinburgh-Euston sleeper (and were you perhaps looking to see if they’d let you on the Highlander?)
 

TimboM

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Were you caught up in some disruption of some kind? I’m struggling to understand how you ended up at Waverley (or Carlisle) at that time of night with no onward travel plans (or accommodation), unless you got stuck somehow? Had you missed the Edinburgh-Euston sleeper (and were you perhaps looking to see if they’d let you on the Highlander?)
If I were to make an educated guess, Side Effect (and Side Effect Jnr) were visiting the station to watch the Sleepers, not travel on them - I'm assuming in the hope of seeing the whole southbound shunting operation until their plan was interrupted by the closure of the station.

There's a few of us strange folk who hang around stations at odd times just to watch the sleeper. Trick is finding one that's open (and lit) at the times they pass through.
 

InOban

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Which seems strange as surely the station is opened to allow the rare passenger who is travelling towards Dalmuir & beyond access so they can board the Fort William seats.

Although I would imagine the number of passengers boarding the Fort William sleeper at Edinburgh will be minimal
It's not unknown for hillwalkers to catch the FW portion for a day's munro-bagging from crianlarich, Bridge of Orchy or Corrour
 

MrEd

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If I were to make an educated guess, Side Effect (and Side Effect Jnr) were visiting the station to watch the Sleepers, not travel on them - I'm assuming in the hope of seeing the whole southbound shunting operation until their plan was interrupted by the closure of the station.

There's a few of us strange folk who hang around stations at odd times just to watch the sleeper. Trick is finding one that's open (and lit) at the times they pass through.

Ah I get it now. That makes sense. Yes it is good fun watching the sleeper!
 

Jude99

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You *might* actually get away with "Alpine bunks" (basically a continuous shelf with pads on it) with some dividers, as people would sleep sideways. Doubt it'd sell in the UK though.
I'd be happy with a sleeping shelf. I'd probably be heading to the Highlands for a camping / bothy trip, so laying out my sleeping bag in a shared space is fine. However, it doesn't fit with the current marketing of a "luxury" service.
I've used the seated sleeper once, pre Serco, and it was very uncomfortable until a double-seat became free and I got a couple of hours kip in my sleeping bag. I think an opportunistic approach to making the best of the seated coach is probably best.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'd be happy with a sleeping shelf. I'd probably be heading to the Highlands for a camping / bothy trip, so laying out my sleeping bag in a shared space is fine. However, it doesn't fit with the current marketing of a "luxury" service.
I've used the seated sleeper once, pre Serco, and it was very uncomfortable until a double-seat became free and I got a couple of hours kip in my sleeping bag. I think an opportunistic approach to making the best of the seated coach is probably best.

FWIW between the Night Riviera's 2+2 seating and the old Mk2s I'd go for the Riviera any day, I can sort of contort myself across two seats (it's never full) and got far more kip on that than on one seat on the old Mk2 stock on the Cally. I suspect I'd find Fainsa seating (even 1st) even worse; I declined to upgrade to Weekend First on those seats on GWR as it just wasn't worth the money, and went back to Standard.
 

megabusser

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I'd be happy with a sleeping shelf. I'd probably be heading to the Highlands for a camping / bothy trip, so laying out my sleeping bag in a shared space is fine. However, it doesn't fit with the current marketing of a "luxury" service.
I've used the seated sleeper once, pre Serco, and it was very uncomfortable until a double-seat became free and I got a couple of hours kip in my sleeping bag. I think an opportunistic approach to making the best of the seated coach is probably best.

I did the Riga to Moscow sleeper in the lowest class about 18 months ago, something like a ‘sleeping shelf’ would be a good way of describing it. The benches were so hard that it was really difficult to sleep, but solve that problem and it’d be fine. Open plan, like a big dorm room in a hostel.

As flying (especially short haul) becomes less and less socially acceptable, especially among young people, a cheap option on the sleeper to target students/young people would be great.

Right now, I guess most are on budget airlines, with the rest on cheap-ish advances on day trains and Megabus/Nat Express. There are multiple coaches every night leaving Victoria for Glasgow/Edinburgh; the idea the sleeper couldn’t grab some of that market with a targeted offering seems absurd. I’d be first in line!
 

Bald Rick

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Right now, I guess most are on budget airlines, with the rest on cheap-ish advances on day trains and Megabus/Nat Express. There are multiple coaches every night leaving Victoria for Glasgow/Edinburgh; the idea the sleeper couldn’t grab some of that market with a targeted offering seems absurd. I’d be first in line!

Isn’t that the purpose of the seats on the sleeper?
 

JonathanH

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There are multiple coaches every night leaving Victoria for Glasgow/Edinburgh; the idea the sleeper couldn’t grab some of that market with a targeted offering seems absurd. I’d be first in line!

It is not absurd at all - the coach will always have lower fixed costs than the train - it can divert easily if the Motorway is shut - it provides adequate accommodation at an affordable price and you simply sit there, shut your eyes and sleep.

There aren't that many overnight coaches either - Megabus run a fast and a slow M11 service to Glasgow and M20 to Edinburgh. National Express run 588 and 592 to Glasgow and 594 to Edinburgh. (The fast M11 and 592 go on to Aberdeen.) You can choose which one you want to take on cost, time of departure and time / location of arrival.

At least some of the passengers on the slow M11 are for Birmingham / Manchester / Preston and on the M20 are for Newcastle.

The demand for London to Scotland on overnight coaches is probably about 200 people on a reasonably busy night. That is not a material market and it is catered for by the coaches.

66713 and 73970 on 1S25 to inverness this morning back to a 66/73 combo.

With six 73s in Scotland, it seems a bit odd to go back to a 66/73 combo although it is reported as running again this morning. Have they broken the 73s?
 

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