When will someone do something about CrossCountry

[Bletchleyite]

View attachment 75510
It’s ok, something has been done...

Crikey, I should (joking) go out and ride one while I have a chance!

 

[gg1]

View attachment 75510
It’s ok, something has been done...

Wow. Out of interest which service was that?

 

[krus_aragon]

I find it surprising that 13 years into the franchise, that internal photo is indistinguishable from a Virgin(Avanti) Voyager, except for three or four window stickers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find it surprising that 13 years into the franchise, that internal photo is indistinguishable from a Virgin(Avanti) Voyager, except for three or four window stickers.

I don't. XC (and Arriva generally) are dross. "Bare minimum" is the standard.

 

[krus_aragon]

I don't. XC (and Arriva generally) are dross. "Bare minimum" is the standard.

It's not just levelled at XC, though. Both fleets still look the same inside.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not just levelled at XC, though. Both fleets still look the same inside.

Avanti have barely had time to do anything with theirs yet. Virgin was maintaining them by e.g. replacing seat covers, they just didn't see the need to change the colour scheme, with which I agree, there was nothing wrong with it.

 

[JonathanH]

I find it surprising that 13 years into the franchise, that internal photo is indistinguishable from a Virgin(Avanti) Voyager, except for three or four window stickers.

Why does the interior need to look different? (It actually is different as the seats were reorganised to reduce the number of table seats.) The seat covers are no doubt replaced on a regular basis, just with exactly the same pattern over and over again as they wear out.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Why does the interior need to look different? (It actually is different as the seats were reorganised to reduce the number of table seats.) The seat covers are no doubt replaced on a regular basis, just with exactly the same pattern over and over again as they wear out.

170s have had their seat covers replaced from the Central Trains one, yet they’re also looking quite worn and haven’t had any replacement for a while...

 

[JonathanH]

170s have had their seat covers replaced from the Central Trains one, yet they’re also looking quite worn and haven’t had any replacement for a while...

At the same time, the XC Voyagers went through a programme of having seat covers changes but they used the same moquette so people didn't necessarily notice.

 

[talltim]

Wow. Out of interest which service was that?

09:03 Chesterfield to Sheffield (08:03 Birmingham-Glasgow) Coach G

There was one girl sitting to the left, you can just see her handbag on the table.
I went and sat next to her

If only there was some way of changing the length of trains to suit traffic...

 

[Mogz]

I was the only person in my carriage this morning.

They’re not bad trains when they’re not packed and standing.

I’d settle for a couple of extra carriages and a couple of inches extra leg-room, DfT.

Final offer!

 

[Jozhua]

Frankly this is unsustainable. We can't continue to rely on the apocalypse to deal with capacity issues in the UK rail sector.

Might actually need to build more stuff...

 

[The Ham]

Frankly this is unsustainable. We can't continue to rely on the apocalypse to deal with capacity issues in the UK rail sector.

Might actually need to build more stuff...

Indeed, and yet on Twitter people are suggesting that we don't by saying that we no longer need HS2.

 

[squizzler]

I was wondering if the opportunity could be taken to slacken timings so that trains other than Voyagers could keep to the schedule. This opens the door to more HSTs or off-the-peg AT300s. When things begin to ramp back up again all the other operators whose territory XC crosses could rejig their own services to suit (As if it would be that easy, LOL).

 

[JonathanH]

I was wondering if the opportunity could be taken to slacken timings so that trains other than Voyagers could keep to the schedule.

No, not without rewriting the timetable for loads of other trains as well. Voyagers can deal with the service at the moment.

This opens the door to more HSTs

Door firmly shut and discussed many times on this forum. They are going for scrap.

off-the-peg AT300s

Hitachi are building the EMR fleet at the moment. They won't be able to just construct 'off-the-peg' AT300s to demand. Building trains isn't essential work.

When things begin to ramp back up again all the other operators whose territory XC crosses could rejig their

It is hardly a priority to rewrite the XC timetable in the current circumstances.

 

[NoMorePacers]

This is all wonderfully cyclic.

"XC capacity is rubbish."
"Agreed."
"Here's an option to increase capacity in the near future (off-lease HSTs)."
"No because xyz."
"Here's another option to increase capacity in the medium-term (surplus Meridians/Voyagers)."
"No because pqr."
"Here's another option to increase capacity for the next few decades (a new build of IETs)."
"No because abc."

Enjoy standing on 4 car Voyagers for several hours for another decade at least everyone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I've noticed about the Forum generally is that there is a tendency in some circles towards naysaying, i.e. finding reasons why the status quo is the only possible option for everything. There have been a lot of examples of this over the years:

No more proper gangways -> Class 350 and Electrostar were developed with proper gangways
No more large overhead luggage racks -> these are massive on 80x and the CAF units
You can only use ironing boards or Fainsa Sophias -> Avanti proposing to use another design
No way to have all seats in Standard aligned with the windows -> Class 397 has all seats in Standard aligned with the windows
No financially viable way to provide good legroom in Standard -> Class 80x has excellent legroom in Standard
Bi-modes are not viable -> Class 80x
Etc.

There are loads of examples.

Something clearly needs to be done and something will be done. I would be very surprised if it didn't involve the 222s.

 

[JonathanH]

there is a tendency in some circles towards naysaying,

Something clearly needs to be done and something will be done. I would be very surprised if it didn't involve the 222s.

Yes, as you say, naysaying about very unlikely options like HSTs, timetable changes, AT300s.

Using 221s or 222s in the timescales that they become available seems much more practical and likely but it still depends on things like government willingness and depot space. It isn't 'just going to happen'.

 

[Mogz]

One thing I've noticed about the Forum generally is that there is a tendency in some circles towards naysaying, i.e. finding reasons why the status quo is the only possible option for everything. There have been a lot of examples of this over the years:

No more proper gangways -> Class 350 and Electrostar were developed with proper gangways
No more large overhead luggage racks -> these are massive on 80x and the CAF units
You can only use ironing boards or Fainsa Sophias -> Avanti proposing to use another design
No way to have all seats in Standard aligned with the windows -> Class 397 has all seats in Standard aligned with the windows
No financially viable way to provide good legroom in Standard -> Class 80x has excellent legroom in Standard
Bi-modes are not viable -> Class 80x
Etc.

There are loads of examples.

Something clearly needs to be done and something will be done. I would be very surprised if it didn't involve the 222s.

Hear hear!

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

According to Modern Railways page 15 of the april 2020 edition:

In December 2020, subject to agreement with the DfT, CrossCountry plans to utilise additional HSTs to enable longer trains to operate some services on Mondays to Thursdays on routes from Scotland, the North East and Manchester to the South West and the South Coast. The operator has five HSTs, which are currently utilised most intensively on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. To enable the increase, two additional power cars will join CrossCountry's fleet, with voyagers released by use of HSTs allowing other trains to be lengthened.

later on:

DfT says work is underway on further improvements when more rolling stock is available, especially on long distance routes. This is likely to involve the transfer of Class 221s displaced from Avanti West Coast or Class 222's from East Midlands Railway. Also promised as part of the investment is the expansion of CrossCountry's seat reservation service and cycle reservations as well as improved signage to aid luggage storage.

and finally...

Negotions are underway regarding a further direct award franchise, which is thought likely to be for two years with the option of a further two-year extension.

 

[BigCj34]

According to Modern Railways page 15 of the april 2020 edition:



later on:



and finally...

Does no-one want to bid for the XC? One would think an Intercity franchise (albeit also used for short hop journeys) which attracts high usage might be of interest, but not the case then?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Does no-one want to bid for the XC? One would think an Intercity franchise (albeit also used for short hop journeys) which attracts high usage might be of interest, but not the case then?

The bidding was cancelled in September 2018 due to the Williams Rail Review as the ITT had not been published before the review was commissioned unlike South Eastern, West Coast and East Midlands which all had there bidding process started before Williams Rail Review was comissioned. It seems logical to extend the franchise until 2022 or 2024 to allow the Williams Rail Review to be implemented.

 

[AndrewE]

The bidding was cancelled in September 2018 due to the Williams Rail Review as the ITT had not been published before the review was commissioned unlike South Eastern, West Coast and East Midlands which all had there bidding process started before Williams Rail Review was comissioned. It seems logical to extend the franchise until 2022 or 2024 to allow the Williams Rail Review to be implemented.

If they can ever agree what to recommend. Apparently it has stalled because of irreconcilable differences amongst the members on what to put in the last section... Political dogma trumps logic or common sense, apparently, regardless of the public need.
Time for the politicians to stop hiding behind advisory bodies, take a decision and lead... - but I'm not goinhg to hold my breath on that one. In the current circumstances I would predict maybe 5 years of Management Contracts, by when we might have had a change of government or found a Prime Minister and a Secretary of state with a spine.

 

[Domh245]

I was under the impression that the review had been finished and was sitting on the SoS's desk awaiting release?

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

According to Modern Railways page 15 of the april 2020 edition:



later on:



and finally...

Interesting news here - you've saved me nearly a fiver on one of these magazines !

I'm not sure if my question a while back was answered but wouldn't 222's require extra crew training? If it was me, I'd have the 221's as CrossCountry are the only other operator with these - a member of staff working on an HST told me on the 02/01/20 that we're getting Virgin's Voyagers (Virgin being Avanti West Coast of course).

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Interesting news here - you've saved me nearly a fiver on one of these magazines !

I'm not sure if my question a while back was answered but wouldn't 222's require extra crew training? If it was me, I'd have the 221's as CrossCountry are the only other operator with these - a member of staff working on an HST told me on the 02/01/20 that we're getting Virgin's Voyagers (Virgin being Avanti West Coast of course).

221’s are a good option. 222’s would require modification if you were to work them with the 221’s as they are not compatible. HST’s are going to be in service by the end of the year so expect long trains on some routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

221’s are a good option. 222’s would require modification if you were to work them with the 221’s as they are not compatible. HST’s are going to be in service by the end of the year so expect long trains on some routes.

There is no great need to work them together, they can be diagrammed separately, though they may wish to do the mods for flexibility.

 

[greatvoyager]

According to Modern Railways page 15 of the april 2020 edition:



later on:



and finally...

At least it looks like the capacity on XC is being taken seriously, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[greatvoyager]

Interesting news here - you've saved me nearly a fiver on one of these magazines !

I'm not sure if my question a while back was answered but wouldn't 222's require extra crew training? If it was me, I'd have the 221's as CrossCountry are the only other operator with these - a member of staff working on an HST told me on the 02/01/20 that we're getting Virgin's Voyagers (Virgin being Avanti West Coast of course).

As the 222s are part of the voyager family, perhaps any extra crew training on them would be easy. Easier than say, a completely different type of train.

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting news here - you've saved me nearly a fiver on one of these magazines !

But the three stages of increased capacity are not news, they were announced by DfT in February and discussed in detail in a different thread in this forum:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...at-improvements-would-you-like-to-see.200953/
1. Increased diagramming of existing 170 fleet. As little as one unit per day can provide the number of ”seats per week” mentioned...
2. Increased diagramming of existing HST fleet, which should have started in 2017...
3. Increased capacity for 170 fleet consisting of a few additional centre cars.

Anything else is still completely undecided, AFAICT.