Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[dk1]

On another note, what will the line speed be when Gipsy Lane is closed?

Just back to 100mph as it was prior to the fatality in 2011.

 

[Railperf]

A spent 19 dull minutes just dwelling at stations the other Sunday. Its soul destroying.

Equally for us as passengers - but i prefer a spirited run in between stops. Four to five min wait at Ipswich used to (pre Covid-19) allow time to jump off and grab a Greggs coffee and cake.

 

[Bald Rick]

You'd like to think so but I can't see anything changing before December 2021.

No chance before then. It also has to be done at a different time to the WA recast, which has to tie in with the ECML recast, and I’ll leave it there for the speculators.

 

[Abbo]

As is the case for any ToC, only the necessary drivers and crew will be trained for a particular traction. I e-mailed GA about the Lowestofts and they said only when the timetable is recast following all rolling stock being introduced will those services restart. Somehow I don't think a 755 will ever carry a passenger south of Marks Tey.
Assuming they do run the 4tpd (I assume two up trains and two down) only Crown Point drivers will need to sign them if both are evening down trains that won't require London drivers.

It might be urban myth but I am told that the reason 755s can not work South of Marks Tey is that the power pack modules are wider than the coaches and therefore ( might be ) out of gauge approaching London.

 

[dk1]

It might be urban myth but I am told that the reason 755s can not work South of Marks Tey is that the power pack modules are wider than the coaches and therefore ( might be ) out of gauge approaching London.

It's a myth. They are already working the route, just not cleared in passenger service.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Even with the London - Norwich services dropping to hourly the loadings are not exactly huge. I cannot foresee there being any need for the Norwich in 90 services for a long time to come. I doubt there will be much need for a half-hourly service unless loadings pick up drastically. I don't think anyone can predict what is going to happen going forward but you can be pretty sure that the previous plans will not be needed for a while yet. Even the main source of passengers for the entire GEML, the GE suburbs, still are seeing nowhere near the original numbers of passengers.

Makes me think. Most likely the drop in demand for Stanstead (i.e. flights) will be so dramatic that there will be plenty of 745s for the normal Norwich service.

 

[Bald Rick]

Makes me think. Most likely the drop in demand for Stanstead (i.e. flights) will be so dramatic that there will be plenty of 745s for the normal Norwich service.

I’d be very surprised if the Stansted express went lower than 4 / hour when this is over. It serves commuters from Harlow and Stortford as well, don’t forget.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I’d be very surprised if the Stansted express went lower than 4 / hour when this is over. It serves commuters from Harlow and Stortford as well, don’t forget.

Mmm, thats true. Can only think that the commuters will get 720s instead !.

Overall I think the most likely is that 20 x 745s was the minimum quantity required to make Stadler's effort to bid for the 755s worthwhile. It then follows that the bid team then hoped that was not too many for Norwich and then realised they could add Stanstead in as well.

My alternative theory is that 720s are to be used on the heavier loaded services from Norwich. That is at times when capacity requirements trump attractiveness.

 

[Bald Rick]

Mmm, thats true. Can only think that the commuters will get 720s instead !.

Overall I think the most likely is that 20 x 745s was the minimum quantity required to make Stadler's effort to bid for the 755s worthwhile. It then follows that the bid team then hoped that was not too many for Norwich and then realised they could add Stanstead in as well.

My alternative theory is that 720s are to be used on the heavier loaded services from Norwich. That is at times when capacity requirements trump attractiveness.

As has been described elsewhere on these pages at length, the 20 were bought as that is what is needed to operate the service proposed in the franchise bid. 9 in circuit on the Stansteds, with one spare, and 9 in circuit on the Norwich service with one spare. This assumed reduced journey times for both, particularly for the latter. The ‘third’ Norwich service an hour was always going to be a 720.

 

[dk1]

Just to clear something up after some confusion. The 745/1s do have seat back tables.

 

[samuelmorris]

Oh that's totally fine then - common sense prevails!

 

[Rick1984]

Though still strange they don't have half tables in the bay seating

I do like the slot in the seat back table for your phone or tablet to rest on

 

[py_megapixel]

Though still strange they don't have half tables in the bay seating

I wonder if the rationale is that since these are the Stansted Airport units people seated in the bays will want to put bags and cases in that area?

 

[Abbo]

Are the 755s cleared to run in multiple now? I'm a bit out of touch with them

I believe they (might ) be now but understand not permitted South of Marks Tey ?

 

[TRAX]

I believe they (might ) be now but understand not permitted South of Marks Tey ?

Look at post #1445.

 

[Abbo]

Not passed to work South of Mark's Tey in passenger traffic or in multiple yet.

Sorry DK1 hadn't seem this post before posting mine. But yousr confirms things.

 

[dk1]

I believe they (might ) be now but understand not permitted South of Marks Tey ?

Still not cleared to work in multiple in passenger service or ECS.

 

[Railperf]

I wonder if the rationale is that since these are the Stansted Airport units people seated in the bays will want to put bags and cases in that area?

people try doing that on the stansted 755's and because of the tables in the way - their luggage ends up in the walkway - blocking it.

 

[Railperf]

Still not cleared to work in multiple in passenger service or ECS.

wasn't there a report of a 755 deputising for a 745 all the way to Liverpool Street? I note a pair of 755's stabled at Orient Way now.

 

[py_megapixel]

people try doing that on the stansted 755's and because of the tables in the way - their luggage ends up in the walkway - blocking it.

That's what I was thinking - possibly this is why the Stansted Express units have been built without tables?

 

[Railperf]

Mmm, thats true. Can only think that the commuters will get 720s instead !.

Overall I think the most likely is that 20 x 745s was the minimum quantity required to make Stadler's effort to bid for the 755s worthwhile. It then follows that the bid team then hoped that was not too many for Norwich and then realised they could add Stanstead in as well.

My alternative theory is that 720s are to be used on the heavier loaded services from Norwich. That is at times when capacity requirements trump attractiveness.

Can anyone realistically see a third Norwich service post Covid? Or even a business case for half hourly services?

I'm told some insurance firms are saving millions with staff working from home. Why would they want people commuting into offices if they can save money letting staff work from home?
If and when a Covid vaccine is found - and we do not know when that will be - how many people working happily from home will want to commute into an office again?

 

[samuelmorris]

Can anyone realistically see a third Norwich service post Covid? Or even a business case for half hourly services?

I'm told some insurance firms are saving millions with staff working from home. Why would they want people commuting into offices if they can save money letting staff work from home?
If and when a Covid vaccine is found - and we do not know when that will be - how many people working happily from home will want to commute into an office again?

I see Covid bringing a respite from the increasing demand, but when things are back to normal the growth will resume once again, I'm confident about that. It'll essentially be just like going back in time a decade or two in terms of demand, but within the lifetime of the new fleet, I suspect demand will be back to as it was in 2019 eventually.

If anything this gets GA out of a hole as there wasn't really enough new stock ordered originally, and now there probably will be.

 

[trebor79]

Can anyone realistically see a third Norwich service post Covid? Or even a business case for half hourly services?

I'm not sure there was a need for the third Norwich service. Certainly not post COVID.
I'd keep the half hourly pattern as dropping to hourly will just encourage further migration to other modes of transport. The demand will return, and probably sooner than everyone is assuming. Keeping a decent service pattern will encourage that recovery.

 

[Railperf]

I'm not sure there was a need for the third Norwich service. Certainly not post COVID.
I'd keep the half hourly pattern as dropping to hourly will just encourage further migration to other modes of transport. The demand will return, and probably sooner than everyone is assuming. Keeping a decent service pattern will encourage that recovery.

Demand will grow as soon as the Government and Rail industry allow journeys other than essential for a start - combined with more people having to return to work in London offices.
It will be very difficult for companies to force people to start commuting in again - when they can adequately do the job from home.

 

[trebor79]

Demand will grow as soon as the Government and Rail industry allow journeys other than essential for a start - combined with more people having to return to work in London offices.
It will be very difficult for companies to force people to start commuting in again - when they can adequately do the job from home.

Well I'm heading into Norwich at the weekend for leisure purposes and intending to take the train. From what I've seen a train in the Breckland line is that last place I'm going to catch a disease.
Working from home is far less productive than in an office. Some won't return but a lot will.

 

[dk1]

wasn't there a report of a 755 deputising for a 745 all the way to Liverpool Street? I note a pair of 755's stabled at Orient Way now.

755s are running to Liverpool Street but are not passed to do this in passenger service. Units are also being stabled at Orient Way for training purposes as well as running in multiple on test but still not agreed in passenger or ECS workings. Has to be a test train with the few drivers who have been used to test them all along and with Stadler tech bods.

 

[Railperf]

Well I'm heading into Norwich at the weekend for leisure purposes and intending to take the train. From what I've seen a train in the Breckland line is that last place I'm going to catch a disease.
Working from home is far less productive than in an office. Some won't return but a lot will.

Slightly OT, but i'm sure there was a study done some years ago- that claimed people were more productive working from home than at the office. I'll have to try and dig it out.
Enjoy your journey to Norwich.

 

[Rick1984]

Though still strange they don't have half tables in the bay seating

I wonder if the rationale is that since these are the Stansted Airport units people seated in the bays will want to put bags and cases in that area?

Yes that seems why put you think they might have still had a small ledge table while still allowing you to sit with your luggage

 

[Bald Rick]

Slightly OT, but i'm sure there was a study done some years ago- that claimed people were more productive working from home than at the office. I'll have to try and dig it out.
Enjoy your journey to Norwich.

The studies I’ve seen show exactly the opposite. And that is certainly my experience of the last three months.

 

[Class 170101]

There was / is no room for 3 an hour all day anyway from Ipswich, once beynd Diss, the signal spacing can handle 2 an hour easily, but when they shove an ECS or the N. Walsham tanks, it can get very tight !

I disagree. Where all trains are a similar speed / acceleration 3tph is possible. Where the problem comes is with the North Walsham Tanks taking up the half hour between one Intercity and the next because of its slow speed.

755s are running to Liverpool Street but are not passed to do this in passenger service. Units are also being stabled at Orient Way for training purposes as well as running in multiple on test but still not agreed in passenger or ECS workings. Has to be a test train with the few drivers who have been used to test them all along and with Stadler tech bods.

Who has been training on them at Orient Way CS if Class 755s are unlikely to go there?