WMR 350’s

[The Fox 4846]

Have WMR swapped over their 350’s so that their is now a sub fleet of 350/2 for the Walsall and Rugeley’s? Before the timetable change different 350’s have been used but today I noticed all were 350/2 so are they now kept as a sub-fleet for WMR?

 

[221101 Voyager]

Have WMR swapped over their 350’s so that their is now a sub fleet of 350/2 for the Walsall and Rugeley’s? Before the timetable change different 350’s have been used but today I noticed all were 350/2 so are they now kept as a sub-fleet for WMR?

I don't believe for a minute that WMR would have a subclass of 350's because they are all based at either Northampton or Bletchley and are for services that are primarily LNR with only the occasional WMR service using them. They would not have a subclass of 37 (350/2s) to themselves. I've seen plenty of /2s on the southern WCML at Wolverton today so they aren't just for WMR.

Besides, the 350's all belong to LNR not WMR.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Besides, the 350's all belong to LNR not WMR.

It's one TOC - West Midlands Trains Ltd - operating under two brands (LNR and WMR).

In answer to the original question I suspect they've just rediagrammed so only /2s end up on the locals, which probably does make sense. They've got a bit better at avoiding the "random unit generator" due to having to diagram 100mph and 110mph units separately, even though they've all been converted to 110 now.

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

The 350s are on not specific to one route today I had a 350/4 on a Wolverhampton Birmingham a 350/4 on Wolverhampton Walsall a pair of 350/2s on a Birmingham Northampton and a 350/2paired with a 350/1 on a Liverpool Birmingham lucky dip time were 350s are concerned

 

[Andy Pacer]

The 350s are on not specific to one route today I had a 350/4 on a Wolverhampton Birmingham a 350/4 on Wolverhampton Walsall a pair of 350/2s on a Birmingham Northampton and a 350/2paired with a 350/1 on a Liverpool Birmingham lucky dip time were 350s are concerned

Agreed. I spent today on a Daytripper ticket and was quite surprised how many 350/4s I got, but they were on a mix of services arriving into the area from London, a Liverpool service and a Walsall.

 

[221101 Voyager]

It's one TOC - West Midlands Trains Ltd - operating under two brands (LNR and WMR).

The original poster said WMR NOT WMT and aren't most 350's on LNR services? The fact I and others in this thread have seen several of all the subclases in different places answers the question of the 1st question with a resounding no.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Also to note that several of the 350/4s I saw today were coupled with 350/2s

 

[Class 170101]

The advantage of Class 350/2s on 'locals' is the extra seats (3+2) vice 350/1s (and 3s and 4s?) being 2+2 seating.

 

[The Fox 4846]

Thanks for the reply’s obviously it was just my luck I only saw 4/5 350/2’s. However I did notice that there seems to be a lot of inter working going on at new street between every other Walsall, Wolverhampton, Rugeley, Intl and the Crewe, Liverpool, And two through Coventry to Northampton. Anyone know the reasoning to this rather than standard cross-routing such as Wolvo-Walsall, Rugeley-Intl, Liverpool-Euston and such?

 

[450.emu]

I rode one of the 350s to Watford Junction and back. They could do with a wash! Very quick trains though!

 

[221101 Voyager]

I rode one of the 350s to Watford Junction and back. They could do with a wash! Very quick trains though!

The 350/1s are almost fully refurbished now see this thread for more on this - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-350-1-refurbishment.178890/

350/2s (the scruffy 350's that need a wash! ) are going to be off leased and replaced by 730s in 2021/22.

350/3s I believe are having a refurb later on down the line

350/4s are also having a refurb at some point

350/3s & /4's are unlikely to be done until at least all of the /1s are done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

350/4s are of course getting a downgrade, from First Class to Third Class which is inferior to Standard

 

[221101 Voyager]

350/4s are of course getting a downgrade, from First Class to Third Class which is inferior to Standard

Are they removing the plush looking armchairs on them then and replacing them with a seat that's only a slight upgrade from an ironing board? Like all the other 350s 1st class are.

Instead fo wasting money replacing perfectly good seats why don't they clean up the /2s a little to last for the next 18-24 (or more) months they will be here for?

It used to be the /1s were the scruffy ones now the /2s have taken their place!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they removing the plush looking armchairs on them then and replacing them with a seat that's only a slight upgrade from an ironing board? Like all the other 350s 1st class are.

Yes, correct. They are removing the excellent TPE First Class (which is worth paying for) and replacing it with the "Electrostar seats" which are inferior to, and have less legroom than[1], the Grammer E3000s in Standard (which isn't worth paying for). With any sense they'd keep it as TPE had it and concentrate those units onto the Crewes.

[1] Except in some of the centre sections where an extra row is crammed in.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Yes, correct. They are removing the excellent TPE First Class (which is worth paying for) and replacing it with the "Electrostar seats" which are inferior to, and have less legroom than[1], the Grammer E3000s in Standard (which isn't worth paying for). With any sense they'd keep it as TPE had it and concentrate those units onto the Crewes.

[1] Except in some of the centre sections where an extra row is crammed in.

Indeed I also wish they would keep them as they are TPE clearly thought about their 1st class passengers! Unlike LNR! Why don't they just do away with 1st on 350's (except /4s) entirely as I've always only seen VERY few people using it and they probably haven't even got a 1st ticket!

I also think /2s need a little spruce up until they leave as they are very scruffy in and out and they'll be here for some time yet until the Aventras come in probably about 2-3 years late based on some other TOCs! I've only seen photos of one WMR 730 and theres no sign of any LNR ones though yet!

 

[Andy Pacer]

Indeed I also wish they would keep them as they are TPE clearly thought about their 1st class passengers! Unlike LNR! Why don't they just do away with 1st on 350's (except /4s) entirely as I've always only seen VERY few people using it and they probably haven't even got a 1st ticket!

And tickets on there are very rarely checked (in my experience) anyway both nowadays and Pre Covid.

 

[221101 Voyager]

And tickets on there are very rarely checked (in my experience) anyway both nowadays and Pre Covid.

Same here! There must be fare evaders on there sometimes laughing about how many free trips they've had without ticket checks and the fare for all of us who pay is getting ever steeper! Why don't guards check them more often (When covid wasn't around)? Just laziness or what, I don't know?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Same here! There must be fare evaders on there sometimes laughing about how many free trips they've had without ticket checks and the fare for all of us who pay is getting ever steeper! Why don't guards check them more often (When covid wasn't around)? Just laziness or what, I don't know?

I recall an instance where my partner and I (along with most of the train) were deposited off a Pendolino at Stafford that wasnt going via the West Mids due to late running. We had 1st class tickets so decided to head for 1st on the LNWR 350 we were instructed onto, and were met with some rather undesirable looking people with a so called 'image dog' snarling away!!

 

[Spirit555]

Before making generalised comments about ticket checking etc. you have to realise that there are a multitude of reasons why tickets are not checked, not only because of Covid, but generally.

Especially these days due to covid there are virtually no ticket checks on trains, only when entering/exiting stations, apart from when barrier staff aren't available.

Labelling all senior conductors as lazy or not caring doesn't mean they don't.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Ticket checks arent the point of the thread anyway so little point in getting into a usual forum style "tit for tat".

It would be interesting to see how a business case for removing 1st accommodation on these trains would stack up. Would it give more standard seats to sell? (Are they sold as counted places or, more likely, mainly off peaks etc with no limit)

 

[221101 Voyager]

I recall an instance where my partner and I (along with most of the train) were deposited off a Pendolino at Stafford that wasnt going via the West Mids due to late running. We had 1st class tickets so decided to head for 1st on the LNWR 350 we were instructed onto, and were met with some rather undesirable looking people with a so called 'image dog' snarling away!!

As bletchleyite said LNR 1st class is essentially 3rd class so it's not suprising that undesirables are in there, they might as well remove "1st" on all LNR services. As Andy says the potential for more standard class seats that will actually used makes sense especially these days with Social distancing. If you want 1st class travel use AWC not peasant class on LNR!

 

[Bletchleyite]

As bletchleyite said LNR 1st class is essentially 3rd class so it's not suprising that undesirables are in there, they might as well remove "1st" on all LNR services. As Andy says the potential for more standard class seats that will actually used makes sense especially these days with Social distancing. If you want 1st class travel use AWC not peasant class on LNR!

I'd actually be more than willing to pay for "proper" 1st on LNR instead of Standard on AWC, taking a more comfortable but slower journey for a long distance trip. But for me 1st is of no interest unless I can have a seat on the 1 side - to me the whole selling point is a seat that is both window and aisle, and has improved legroom and width.

I'd similarly consider coach if they offered 2+1 and decent legroom. Once you get from "day trippable short journey" to "going away for the weekend" the actual overall journey time gets less important to me and comfort more so.

 

[221101 Voyager]

I'd actually be more than willing to pay for "proper" 1st on LNR instead of Standard on AWC, taking a more comfortable but slower journey for a long distance trip. But for me 1st is of no interest unless I can have a seat on the 1 side - to me the whole selling point is a seat that is both window and aisle, and has improved legroom and width.

I'd similarly consider coach if they offered 2+1 and decent legroom. Once you get from "day trippable short journey" to "going away for the weekend" the actual overall journey time gets less important to me and comfort more so.

For me I want 1st class to be like AWC, fast and comfortable shame it's not cheaper as I would use it more often. As I don't like slow journeys, simply because life is too short to be going slowly!

So never ever use a 350 to go from say Euston to Crewe as you will be say 20 years old when you leave and just turn 22 by the time you get there it takes so long!

 

[Andy Pacer]

For me I want 1st class to be like AWC, fast and comfortable shame it's not cheaper as I would use it more often. As I don't like slow journeys, simply because life is too short to be going slowly!

So never ever use a 350 to go from say Euston to Crewe as you will be say 20 years old when you leave and just turn 22 by the time you get there it takes so long!

And AWC 1st class is widely considered (I await the keyboard warriers) to be the best around at the moment, although mainly due to the catering.

 

[221101 Voyager]

And AWC 1st class is widely considered (I await the keyboard warriers) to be the best around at the moment, although mainly due to the catering.

I would also say that the LNER 1st on the 225 sets is pretty good though.

Back on topic of 350's. What does everyone think about the LNR livery on the 350's? I'm not a big fan personally the Big letter W on the coaches is a bit too overbranded for me.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I would also say that the LNER 1st on the 225 sets is pretty good though.

Back on topic of 350's. What does everyone think about the LNR livery on the 350's? I'm not a big fan personally the Big letter W on the coaches it a bit too overbranded for me.

I like the new livery, I think it looks fresher, although perhaps that is due to the older livery being faded and in need of some TLC.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Back on topic of 350's. What does everyone think about the LNR livery on the 350's? I'm not a big fan personally the Big letter W on the coaches it a bit too overbranded for me.

I think it looks like a tube of Trebor Mints. Too many vertical elements.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I think it looks like a tube of Trebor Mints. Too many vertical elements.

Mints ... refreshing ... you get me? Haha

 

[221101 Voyager]

I think it looks like a tube of Trebor Mints. Too many vertical elements.

Ha ha yes it does! I'd prefer if LNR left the units plain grey and just put black window bands on and added yellow on the fronts.

How about this? Done in 5 minutes.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I'd prefer if LNR left the units plain grey and just put black window bands on and added yellow on the fronts.

How about this? Done in 5 minutes.
View attachment 83271

I like that. And they could still use the WMR branding if required.