Island Line Upgrade updates

[Chris125]

I

I hadn’t actually realised it’s a footpath crossing as well. Apparently the original plan was to close it and use another crossing further down the line, but they changed the plans? Maybe the signallers will monitor footpath users as well, which raises the obvious question about the period overnight...

That's what I struggle to understand - if that's the plan then fair enough, but surely they need to re-route the footpath and I've not seen any indication of that.

 

[hermit]

I

That's what I struggle to understand - if that's the plan then fair enough, but surely they need to re-route the footpath and I've not seen any indication of that.

I can’t see how the footpath could be re-routed, except along the platform and over the footbridge - an elegant solution, but one I suspect the railway would not accept. Otherwise the options would seem to be to leave it where it is or close it altogether.

I’m not sure that I see the problem with shared use. Surely the railway‘s obligation to monitor the crossing and ensure that it is fit for the disabled, mobility scooters etc would only apply to passengers and others using the station. Others using the crossing simply as a public footpath will do so in the normal way without special protection, as they do with the other foot crossings on the line.

 

[alf]

I can’t see how the footpath could be re-routed, except along the platform and over the footbridge - an elegant solution, but one I suspect the railway would not accept. Otherwise the options would seem to be to leave it where it is or close it altogether.

I’m not sure that I see the problem with shared use. Surely the railway‘s obligation to monitor the crossing and ensure that it is fit for the disabled, mobility scooters etc would only apply to passengers and others using the station. Others using the crossing simply as a public footpath will do so in the normal way without special protection, as they do with the other foot crossings on the line.

The railway- then Network South East - implemented the diversion of a public footpath five yards south of Lingfield platform on the East Grinstead line.
It was diverted exactly as Hermit, 782, suggested onto the down platform, over the footbridge & back along the up platform to pick up where it crossed the railway.
It works perfectly.
The same simple solution could have been used at this IOW station. But maybe the scheme’s planners had/have objectives other than saving public money.

 

[swt_passenger]

The railway- then Network South East - implemented the diversion of a public footpath five yards south of Lingfield platform on the East Grinstead line.
It was diverted exactly as Hermit, 782, suggested onto the down platform, over the footbridge & back along the up platform to pick up where it crossed the railway.
It works perfectly.
The same simple solution could have been used at this IOW station. But maybe the scheme’s planners had/have objectives other than saving public money.

They have to provide PRM access to the new platform. If not a crossing it would have to be lifts.

 

[Chris125]

It seems most stations are now more-or-less complete, Brading is the exception unfortunately and still looks weeks away but it's hard to get a decent photo.


Lake by Chris, on Flickr


Shanklin by Chris, on Flickr

 

[swt_passenger]

I’m surprised there’s no fences or gates at the squared off ends of the Lake overlay platform? Normally at newly built “squared off“ platforms there‘s ant-trespass tiles on the floor at the platform edge as well. Maybe it isn’t quite finished…

 

[Gloster]

A lot of passengers with luggage at Ryde Esplanade this afternoon. I don’t know whether they were all being taxied down the pier or trundling along on foot, or whether there was anyone giving assistance and advice at the Pier Head. There was a staff shortage at Esplanade and the booking office was closed. As the rail replacement bus is down the end of the bus station, a lot were trying to get on the Southern Vectis bus. Some were clearly not pleased to be told that, after queuing in the sun to get on, this wasn’t their bus. Not a good example of organisation by the railway.

 

[Goldfish62]

A lot of passengers with luggage at Ryde Esplanade this afternoon. I don’t know whether they were all being taxied down the pier or trundling along on foot, or whether there was anyone giving assistance and advice at the Pier Head. There was a staff shortage at Esplanade and the booking office was closed. As the rail replacement bus is down the end of the bus station, a lot were trying to get on the Southern Vectis bus. Some were clearly not pleased to be told that, after queuing in the sun to get on, this wasn’t their bus. Not a good example of organisation by the railway.

Yes, that's pretty useless. You would think that there'd be a staff presence at Esplanade directing passengers now that the tourist season is under way.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yes, that's pretty useless. You would think that there'd be a staff presence at Esplanade directing passengers now that the tourist season is under way.

A-boards ('Stand Z for the rail replacement bus') might play a part as well.

 

[Gloster]

Just to add to the fun, Southern Vectis have started using the end bus bay for the Downs Tour, so the rail replacement buses now go from further along the Esplanade. There was one railway Special Notice at the (far/east) end of the bus station, but I think it was the the one that had been used at the old stand when the rail replacement went off that. It could be interpreted as saying ‘wait here’, rather than ‘continue for another fifty yards along the road for your bus’. However, you’ve got to find the notice first, as it is beyond all the Southern Vectis vehicles and I could not see anything else to advise.

 

[Neo9320]

So glad we’re taking the car next month!

 

[A0]

So glad we’re taking the car next month!

Given the railway only covers Ryde - Shanklin it would be pretty limiting on the island if you were going to rely on the train.

For many years (even before the closures in the 60s) the Southern Vectis bus network has been a *far* better way to see the island than the railway.

 

[ScottGallagher]

It seems most stations are now more-or-less complete, Brading is the exception unfortunately and still looks weeks away but it's hard to get a decent photo.


Lake by Chris, on Flickr


Shanklin by Chris, on Flickr

Looking good here, I thought they would have painted the lamposts grey and blue the same as SWR seeing as the 484s are painted blue and white but I guess there's a good reason.

 

[Chris125]

Their retaining the faux-historical signage and dreary green and cream unfortunately.

 

[30909]

Given the railway only covers Ryde - Shanklin it would be pretty limiting on the island if you were going to rely on the train.

For many years (even before the closures in the 60s) the Southern Vectis bus network has been a *far* better way to see the island than the railway.

A point of difference, agreed Southern Vectis is a better way "to see the island" but not very convenient for moving quite large "peak flows" of holidaymakers with a week's luggage to the main centres of holiday accommodation between Sandown and Shanklin is where the railway wins and always did. Let's hope the disruption to this service is not reflected in both the future numbers of passengers and attraction of holidaymakers, the Island's economy is reliant upon them.

 

[A0]

Given the railway only covers Ryde - Shanklin it would be pretty limiting on the island if you were going to rely on the train.

A point of difference, agreed Southern Vectis is a better way "to see the island" but not very convenient for moving quite large "peak flows" of holidaymakers with a week's luggage to the main centres of holiday accommodation between Sandown and Shanklin is where the railway wins and always did. Let's hope the disruption to this service is not reflected in both the future numbers of passengers and attraction of holidaymakers, the Island's economy is reliant upon them.

Except a chunk of said holidaymakers arrive on the Island at Cowes or Freshwater.

The fact the Island Line has, for the last 20 years or more managed to shift the holidaymakers arriving at Ryde with 2 car trains running 2 services an hour kind of tells you how small that demand now is.

 

[Gloster]

Except a chunk of said holidaymakers arrive on the Island at Cowes or Freshwater.

The fact the Island Line has, for the last 20 years or more managed to shift the holidaymakers arriving at Ryde with 2 car trains running 2 services an hour kind of tells you how small that demand now is.

Observation is that the majority of visitors arriving on foot do so via Ryde. The Lymington route is mainly for cars, while few holiday makers without cars use the two Cowes ones. Visitors in cars spread all over the island, but those without them are far more likely to be heading for the hotels, B&Bs, etc., of Sandown and Shanklin (and good luck to ‘em).

 

[A0]

Observation is that the majority of visitors arriving on foot do so via Ryde. The Lymington route is mainly for cars, while few holiday makers without cars use the two Cowes ones. Visitors in cars spread all over the island, but those without them are far more likely to be heading for the hotels, B&Bs, etc., of Sandown and Shanklin (and good luck to ‘em).

Since one of the Cowes routes is foot passenger only, I think you're wrong.

 

[hermit]

Since one of the Cowes routes is foot passenger only, I think you're wrong.

It is indeed for foot passengers, but my impression from frequent use of both routes is that the Redjet to/from Cowes is predominantly used by commuters and people from either side of the Solent going about their normal business. The awkwardness of getting from Southampton Central to the ferry by bus or taxi, and the lack of connection on the island side other than the bus to Newport would make this a less attractive option for many of the (much reduced) traditional non-car holidaymakers. They do tend to use Portsmouth.

 

[Gloster]

Since one of the Cowes routes is foot passenger only, I think you're wrong.

Well, yes, as an island resident I am aware of that, but I simplified things a bit. It is my opinion, based on observation, that most of those who travel on the Red Jets to West Cowes are either island residents, people who work on the island or those who have business (of one sort or other) on the island. Tourists travelling without cars are definitely a small minority.

 

[IanXC]

Their retaining the faux-historical signage and dreary green and cream unfortunately.

Sorry who's what now?

 

[Journeyman]

Certainly the heavy tourist traffic that required practically every vehicle in service on summer Saturdays is long gone. It was what justified electrification in the first place, but numbers nosedived pretty quickly, and cuts in the fleet and infrastructure followed.

By the mid-seventies, the scissors crossover at Pier Head had gone, reducing the pier to a single track for through services and another for the pier shuttle. The second track at Shanklin had gone, and several of the vehicles in worst condition, or damaged by accidents, had gone without replacement.

Obviously later on, the Brading to Sandown singling reduced capacity further, but the planned 20-minute interval service that allowed again only lasted a few years.

 

[lancastrian]

The main reason that the numbers nosed dived was the stupid decision to close the line to Ventnor, many of the holiday makers went on to Ventnor and as with other lines to Holiday Places being closed in all or part no one asked the travelling public what they wanted. The one thing they DIDN'T want was to change from a train to a bus just two stops short of the destination they wanted to go to. All because of a point that needed replacing at Wroxall. Yet again the problem of 'short sightedness' at the DaFT.

 

[A0]

The main reason that the numbers nosed dived was the stupid decision to close the line to Ventnor, many of the holiday makers went on to Ventnor and as with other lines to Holiday Places being closed in all or part no one asked the travelling public what they wanted. The one thing they DIDN'T want was to change from a train to a bus just two stops short of the destination they wanted to go to. All because of a point that needed replacing at Wroxall. Yet again the problem of 'short sightedness' at the DaFT.

Sorry, but that's utter twaddle.

Ventnor, whilst an attractive destination is relatively small even now. The bulk of holiday accommodation is still around the Ryde, Brading, Sandown area with some at Shanklin.

I'd be surprised if even 10% of the Island's visitors either before closure or since even went to Ventnor, let alone stayed there.

 

[hermit]

Sorry, but that's utter twaddle.

Ventnor, whilst an attractive destination is relatively small even now. The bulk of holiday accommodation is still around the Ryde, Brading, Sandown area with some at Shanklin.

I'd be surprised if even 10% of the Island's visitors either before closure or since even went to Ventnor, let alone stayed there.

Agreed. And any tourist who did arrive at Ventnor expecting to walk round the corner to his hotel would have been sorely disappointed, given that the station was situated remotely at the back of the town, about 300 feet of steep climb up from the town centre. That’s why buses always had the advantage at Ventnor for both locals and visitors.

 

[Stroud Valleys]

Is there anything left to do with the IOW's infrastructure?

If most of the upgrade work to the stations and line itself is now complete, is there any reason why the new units cannot be used to start testing on the IOW, especially given the units on the mainland have been used quite a bit recently for testing and 001 has already been used on the IOW.

 

[D6130]

All because of a point that needed replacing at Wroxall.

The real reason why the decision to cut the line short at Shanklin was made (by BR....not by the then Ministry of Transport), was because extending the electrification to Ventnor would have needed at least one additional seven car (4VEC+3TIS) unit. The 23 minute journey time from Ryde Pierhead to Shanklin fitted in very well with a 15 or 30 minute interval service, but 38 minutes to Ventnor would have rather upset the applecart, diagramming-wise. As has been stated upthread, the extra expenditure on a shoe-string project and the heavy maintenance of Ventnor tunnel would hardly have been justified, given the remoteness of Ventnor station from the town and the good bus services serving the town centre from virtually all parts of the island.

 

[A0]

The real reason why the decision to cut the line short at Shanklin was made (by BR....not by the then Ministry of Transport), was because extending the electrification to Ventnor would have needed at least one additional seven car (4VEC+3TIS) unit. The 23 minute journey time from Ryde Pierhead to Shanklin fitted in very well with a 15 or 30 minute interval service, but 38 minutes to Ventnor would have rather upset the applecart, diagramming-wise. As has been stated upthread, the extra expenditure on a shoe-string project and the heavy maintenance of Ventnor tunnel would hardly have been justified, given the remoteness of Ventnor station from the town and the good bus services serving the town centre from virtually all parts of the island.

It also would have cost circa £ 80,000 to extend the electrification to Ventnor which was costing circa £ 450,000 to cover Ryde to Shanklin.

That road improvements were a similar cost, if not slightly less and offered wider benefits, including better journey times for the buses.

 

[Chris125]

Is there anything left to do with the IOW's infrastructure?

If most of the upgrade work to the stations and line itself is now complete, is there any reason why the new units cannot be used to start testing on the IOW, especially given the units on the mainland have been used quite a bit recently for testing and 001 has already been used on the IOW.

I think there's still work to do before they'd want the power back on, much of it at Brading though the foot crossing below is looking much more advanced now - heras fencing previously in the way had been moved allowing this photo but that probably suggests there's been some trespass, so getting all these access points finished/secure would seem pretty important.

 

[Philip 34002]

It also would have cost circa £ 80,000 to extend the electrification to Ventnor which was costing circa £ 450,000 to cover Ryde to Shanklin.

That road improvements were a similar cost, if not slightly less and offered wider benefits, including better journey times for the buses.

In addition to the extra train that would have been required in 1967, if Ventnor had remained open, as previously mentioned in this thread, it is my understanding that a further sub station would have also been required, and I assume that would have been a significant proportion of the budgeted £80k mentioned.

As also previously mentioned the estimated journey time of 38 minutes or so is not a particularly convenient timing. If the railway to Ventnor was open today and presumably a half hourly regular interval frequency was to be maintained, at least four extra Cl 484 units would be required. I assume in that case the trains would pass at Sandown.

Agreed. And any tourist who did arrive at Ventnor expecting to walk round the corner to his hotel would have been sorely disappointed, given that the station was situated remotely at the back of the town, about 300 feet of steep climb up from the town centre. That’s why buses always had the advantage at Ventnor for both locals and visitors.

I note the inconvenient location of the former main Ventnor station, and arguably the other Island stations are not in the most convenient locations either. Sandown being quite poor in this respect, but the secondary school is nearby, which together with residents local to the railway station, must be useful income generators for the railway. The key useful aspect of the Island line is it's convenient and relatively quick connections with the mainland via the Wightlink ferry with step free access, unlike the Hovercraft service at Ryde, which visitors from the mainland appreciate. These aspects offset the relatively poorer access issues to the centre of the main places served by the railway on the Island. With the closure of Ventnor station in 1966 did result in a significant turndown in business for the town, and in today speak is probably one of those left behind places. I am sure if the railway was reopened to Ventnor the town would gain extra business, but the key 64 dollar question is whether the significant cost is justified.