Greg Wetzel
Member
Back in the days of steam, how was rubbish conveyed? For example, were the bags loaded into open wagons, and then covered with tarpaulins to ensure the bags didn't fly out?
Did they have much rubbish to convey (well at least before the 1950s and early 60s)? It's an interesting thought. Before the consumer society got fully going there was a lot less rubbish to deal with, and more of it was organic - food waste trimmings type stuff. Far less wrapping paper or containers etc., esp before the rise of plastics. People burned stuff at home on the fireplace often so the rubbish became ash , or buried other stuff in the garden, food bottles / jars etc would often be returnable, for money - those Victorian medicine bottles you dig up for example - tho obv not in dense city housing with no gardens.Back in the days of steam, how was rubbish conveyed? For example, were the bags loaded into open wagons, and then covered with tarpaulins to ensure the bags didn't fly out?
In general, refuse disposal would historically have been a much more local affair - aided by the fact that, as you say, there was a lot less of it. The conveyance of containerised rubbish by train (what became known as the "binliners") started in the UK in 1977. I doubt rail had been involved at all in the carriage of domestic waste (as opposed to the industrial variety) before then.Did they have much rubbish to convey (well at least before the 1950s and early 60s)? It's an interesting thought. Before the consumer society got fully going there was a lot less rubbish to deal with, and more of it was organic - food waste trimmings type stuff. Far less wrapping paper or containers etc., esp before the rise of plastics. People burned stuff at home on the fireplace often so the rubbish became ash , or buried other stuff in the garden, food bottles / jars etc would often be returnable, for money - those Victorian medicine bottles you dig up for example - tho obv not in dense city housing with no gardens.
I got a sense of what this might have been like when as a student I went to Poland in 1991. Stuff you got in shops was just handed to you unwrapped on many cases, there was no litter on the streets on the whole as there was nothing to drop as litter (there was lots of dust and grit against the kerbs but not western European style litter of wrapping, cans etc etc), I got beer from the local shop for I think about 20p a bottle, but c10p was refundable with the bottle I think ! I assume the costs of bottle production was greater than the cost of beer production so the bottle was of high proportionate value to the brewer.
Having said all this, there must have been some rubbish to convey, but towns were smaller so tips may have been not very far away etc?
A thought provoking post!
Back in the days of steam, how was rubbish conveyed? For example, were the bags loaded into open wagons, and then covered with tarpaulins to ensure the bags didn't fly out?
The idea that the "black bin bag" existed in the days of steam has made me chuckle.
When I was a kid the dustbin never had a liner and it was only dust and tin cans inside it, everything else went on the "back of the fire".
Good point - before my own time however.In terms of the "urban waste scene", (i.e. litter) - it wasn't so much the rise of the consumer society in the 50s and 60s but the fast food boom of the last couple of decades. Remember the days when the majority of "litter" was fag ends and used bus tickets?
Yes, even into the early 1980s (and well before wheelie bin systems) I think our 4 person household had 2 metal dustbins. I don't think we filled them both each week, for the weekly collection. Bin liners were not really used in our household (not sure why). Volume of those 2 bins would I reckon be no more than 50% of one modern std sized wheelie bin.The idea that the "black bin bag" existed in the days of steam has made me chuckle.
When I was a kid the dustbin never had a liner and it was only dust and tin cans inside it, everything else went on the "back of the fire".
Bin liners were not really used in our household (not sure why).
Good point.In our house it was because the hot ashes would have gone straight through the bottom, (we only ever had galvanised bins).
That's why you get 'No Hot Ashes' signs, I assume.In our house it was because the hot ashes would have gone straight through the bottom, (we only ever had galvanised bins).
Later it was taken in ships down the Manchester Ship Canal and maybe dumped at sea?I'm sure I remember reading that one of the initial Victorian era traffic flows on the Lymm line from Skelton Junction towards Warrington was "night soil" (human excrement and urine, maybe mixed with coal fire ash?) from densely-populated Manchester, to be spread as fertiliser on Cheshire fields. This was discontinued, perhaps as evidence of the toxic contents of unprocessed human waste became apparent.
That roadside litter is caused by motorists discarding it is commonly overstated. Much is actually from insecured rubbish vehicles, rubbish bags attacked by foxes, debris from accidents, poor practice by the dustbin truck crew, and other such sources.In terms of litter spread around the countryside, it's the modern habit of eating and drinking on the move that does the damage. We do an annual litter sweep along the main road through our village. We typically collect about twenty large bags per mile. 95%+ of the items are plastic food wrappings of various kinds and plastic drink bottles. You can expect a few bits of car and a sprinkling of farmers' fertiliser bags as well. Most of the bottles are empty but some not - and if not, the instructions are to stay well clear of the contents!
Tend to disagree with that broadbrush assertion.That roadside litter is caused by motorists discarding it is commonly overstated. Much is actually from insecured rubbish vehicles, rubbish bags attacked by foxes, debris from accidents, poor practice by the dustbin truck crew, and other such sources.
Tend to disagree with that broadbrush assertion.
Roadside litter is particularly noticeable near to temporary traffic lights where the occupants have taken the opportunity, during the time held at the lights, to dispose of any and all litter out of the vehicle's nearest window.
Believe the practice had more-or-less been discontinued by the mid-1930s when the need for Manchester Corporation to arrange for the regular emptying of the accumulated contents (these contents sometimes euphemistically referred to as "night soil") of its residents' "pail closets" and its transportation to out-of-town places such as Chat Moss and Carrington Moss for use as a fertiliser, was eventually obviated by the more widespread use of water closets (flush toilets).I'm sure I remember reading that one of the initial Victorian era traffic flows on the Lymm line from Skelton Junction towards Warrington was "night soil" (human excrement and urine, maybe mixed with coal fire ash?) from densely-populated Manchester, to be spread as fertiliser on Cheshire fields. This was discontinued, perhaps as evidence of the toxic contents of unprocessed human waste became apparent.
Tour de France cyclists do or did discard their drinking bottles with a good conscience, for adoring fans gathered them as souvenirs.Ditto light controlled roundabouts. Get a red - chuck out your crap. The evidence is everywhere. Anyway - way off topic.
Victorian landau drivers and mail carts were more genteel , but Victorians chucking bottles etc out of excursion trains was a well known thing.
Suddenly brings back memories of lining the kitchen bin with newspaper (in the days of broadsheets). Mid 70s onwards.Good point.
For us in the 1970s etc we had galv bins but no open fire (central heating from 1968) so that was not an issue. IIRC food waste / off cuttings would get wrapped in newspaper or a plastic shopping bag, and then placed in that in the kitchen bin, with no bin liner in it, which would then get periodically emptied into the galv bin outside. Maybe by late 70s / early 80s my parents discovered the benefits of a kitchen bin liner.
Tend to disagree with that broadbrush assertion.
Roadside litter is particularly noticeable near to temporary traffic lights where the occupants have taken the opportunity, during the time held at the lights, to dispose of any and all litter out of the vehicle's windows.
The last traditional rubbish trains appear to have been the ones from Ashburton Grove and Kings Cross Goods to Blackbridge Sidings east of Wheathampstead on the old Welwyn-Luton line