SWR December 2022 Timetable Consultation

[infobleep]

I've not has a chance to digest it but I will be disappointed if no fast trains from Guildford stop at Clapham Junction. Currently, the two fast trains each hour don't stop there.

Of course, if fewer trains are running it must be possible to add in Clapham Junction as an additional stop. I mean off-peak, although peak would be great.

Again it may be possible to stop more semi-fast trains to Alton and Basingstoke at Surbiton in the evening if fewer trains run.

I do hope stakeholders factor all of this in, given they don't want to talk to Joe Public at all.

 

[Kite159]

All comes down to cost I suspect, and I would expect more of such "top-up" services from other than the established operator on a route to be dropped across the country, unless they provide useful diversionary routes in times of disruption.

Makes sense

 

[thecouncillor]

I notice this is about an emphasis on PPM, particularly off-peak.

Why then don't they run a half-hourly fast Portsmouth via Guildford, and overlay it with a half-hourly Woking bay starter to Haslemere (hourly to Pompey); and get people to just change trains? Add your half-hourly Weymouth, half-hourly West of England, half-hourly Basingstoke, half-hourly Alton, half-hourly Soton / Pompey via Eastleigh and it's not a hardship. If you want to save resource, it's just as effective to have Woking starters for the Direct line every 30 mins than an hourly through service. And it cuts more pressure out of Waterloo.

 

[Goldfish62]

I've not has a chance to digest it but I will be disappointed if no fast trains from Guildford stop at Clapham Junction. Currently, the two fast trains each hour don't stop there.

Of course, if fewer trains are running it must be possible to add in Clapham Junction as an additional stop. I mean off-peak, although peak would be great.

Again it may be possible to stop more semi-fast trains to Alton and Basingstoke at Surbiton in the evening if fewer trains run.

I do hope stakeholders factor all of this in, given they don't want to talk to Joe Public at all.

Given that Claire Mann comes from TfL, which pretty much bends over backwards to try to ensure that absolutely everyone is given the opportunity to respond to consultations I'm surprised that individuals are specifically excluded from responding to this. But then I suspect the dead hand of the DfT at work.

Best thing to do if you have concerns is to contact your councillor. Fortunately mine is the Transport lead on the council.

I also note that unlike the consultation on the fantasy Dec 2019 timetable there is to be no further consultation prior to publication of the timetables. A great pity as the Dec 2019 consultation resulted in some worthwhile changes to the proposals.

 

[miklcct]

Very disappointed to see the scrapping of Bristol services. I am a regular user of the through service to London and have seen some very generous loadings in the past few weeks on these services

What's the value of these services and what stops you from changing at Salisbury?

 

[davews]

Quick read come to same conclusion as others, somewhat underwhelming and more or less no change on the Waterloo to Reading line. It will see what demand is like over the next six months and whether their pessimistic forecasts prove wrong. Overall philosophy, run few trains and we can do it more reliably, eliminates any chance of improving the network to change that...

 

[tommy2215]

I don't quite get why post pandemic TOCs like LNER and EMR will be running significantly more trains but it seems with SWR its going to be the opposite

 

[Chiltern006]

swr don't have enough trains. simple as that lol

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I don't quite get why post pandemic TOCs like LNER and EMR will be running a significantly more trains but it seems with SWR its going to be the opposite

LNER is far less commuter orientated than SWR.

 

[Goldfish62]

swr don't have enough trains. simple as that lol

You might change your mind if you look at Clapham yard pretty much any time of day.

What's the value of these services and what stops you from changing at Salisbury?

Interchange anxiety.

 

[TXMISTA]

What's the value of these services and what stops you from changing at Salisbury?

Cheaper and more convenient than travelling to Paddington as I live in South West London. A Class 158/9 is also a lot more comfortable than a 165/6 or even a GWR IET. Why would I change at Salisbury when I can travel on a direct train?

Also, the connection time between WoE and Pompey trains at Salisbury is often an hour or longer…

 

[swt_passenger]

swr don't have enough trains. simple as that lol

Please show your calculations. The train fleet was already sized for the proposed 2020 increases in services that never happened and are now being withdrawn.

 

[philosopher]

What's the value of these services and what stops you from changing at Salisbury?

For those living on the line between Clapham Junction and Woking they are considerably more convenient then heading to Paddington and getting the train to Bristol from there.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Cheaper and more convenient than travelling to Paddington as I live in South West London. A Class 158/9 is also a lot more comfortable than a 165/6 or even a GWR IET. Why would I change at Salisbury when I can travel on a direct train?

Also, the connection time between WoE and Pompey trains at Salisbury is often an hour or longer…

Bearing in mind this says Waterloo to Salisbury is going back to half-hourly, how on a half-hourly service on one of the legs can you end up with an hours connection at Salisbury (yes I appreciate the Pompey/Cardiff’s are only every hour but you pick the WoE which best connects)

 

[Chiltern006]

Please show your calculations. The train fleet was already sized for the proposed 2020 increases in services that never happened and are now being withdrawn.

the proposed 2020 increases with the 442s

 

[pompeyfan]

Bearing in mind this says Waterloo to Salisbury is going back to half-hourly, how on a half-hourly service on one of the legs can you end up with an hours connection at Salisbury (yes I appreciate the Pompey/Cardiff’s are only every hour but you pick the WoE which best connects)

to be fair the Exeter and cardiff depart Salisbury around the same time, SWR control are reluctant to hold the down Exeter due to the single line and and GWR just don’t tend to hold their trains full stop for SWR

 

[HamworthyGoods]

the proposed 2020 increases with the 442s

Which also replaced the 458s by 701s which themselves have been retained to replace the 442s….

 

[Western Sunset]

If the direct services to Shepperton via Twickenham are withdrawn, will closure notices have to be posted for the Strawberry Hill - Fulwell curve?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If the direct services to Shepperton via Twickenham are withdrawn, will closure notices have to be posted for the Strawberry Hill - Fulwell curve?

Where have you got that from, certainly not from the consultation document that’s linked; look at page 25 (the Section Titled Waterloo to Shepperton via Twickenham) - it’s says 3 AM and 3 PM peak services will still run on that route as per pre-Covid.

 

[swt_passenger]

the proposed 2020 increases with the 442s

But the 458s that are now being retained already account for the 442s.

However we’re getting off-topic, this discussion is supposed to be about the timetable.

 

[PTR 444]

Good to hear that the two fast Weymouths are being retained with the same stopping pattern, although one change I would make is to have the Southampton - Bournemouth stopper split from the xx35 ex Waterloo all day rather than just the peaks. That way, New Forest local stations maintain their through link to London, while it would also allow the Weymouth portion to be sped up by skipping Brockenhurst.

Although this would mean 5 fewer fast cars to Bournemouth, it could be made up for by making XC 10-car all day. If the pre-Covid timings are retained, XC would depart less than 10 minutes before the 5-car SWR fast anyway, therefore Bournemouth capacity wouldn’t be so much of an issue.

 

[Western Sunset]

Where have you got that from, certainly not from the consultation document that’s linked; look at page 25 (the Section Titled Waterloo to Shepperton via Twickenham) - it’s says 3 AM and 3 PM peak services will still run on that route as per pre-Covid.

It was mentioned in the second post on this thread...

 

[infobleep]

Given that Claire Mann comes from TfL, which pretty much bends over backwards to try to ensure that absolutely everyone is given the opportunity to respond to consultations I'm surprised that individuals are specifically excluded from responding to this. But then I suspect the dead hand of the DfT at work.

Best thing to do if you have concerns is to contact your councillor. Fortunately mine is the Transport lead on the council.

I also note that unlike the consultation on the fantasy Dec 2019 timetable there is to be no further consultation prior to publication of the timetables. A great pity as the Dec 2019 consultation resulted in some worthwhile changes to the proposals.

Good point about talking to one's counsellor. I hadn't considered that. I will do that.

I would also like to see some of the minimum connection times altered to but no doubt that us not in scope. For example, Surbiton is 6 minutes I believe but it only has 2 island platforms and in some cases, it's just a cross-platform change.

If fewer people are travelling and costs need to be saved then I'm not entirely against fewer services providing there are connections to other services and when there is demand they run the approach number of services and carriages.

I. E. If they find a particular time of the day is busy, they put on more trains then.

I would also expect longer trains on the services that remain. They may even be able to have some spare stock in case something goes wrong as that too helps with the reliability of the timetable.

One train an hour through Bookham isn't so helpful at times but if not enough others are travelling I can see the point. I don't use that route every day.

I would expect there to be similar exercises on other lines.and TOC groups too, assuming they too are running more services than required.

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't quite get why post pandemic TOCs like LNER and EMR will be running a significantly more trains but it seems with SWR its going to be the opposite

They are in very different markets to SWR.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I don't quite get why post pandemic TOCs like LNER and EMR will be running a significantly more trains but it seems with SWR its going to be the opposite

Indeed and if the inner suburban was being run by LO service frequency would be at least 15 mins as we know thats the way to effect modal transfer. Hourly to Dorking is a joke what is really needed on this route is a limited stop service .

Also another operating area thats going to have too many long fixed formation trains. Of course when they realise they've got too many they will be able to take sets out of use and subdivide them back into 5's!

 

[DelW]

I've not has a chance to digest it but I will be disappointed if no fast trains from Guildford stop at Clapham Junction. Currently, the two fast trains each hour don't stop there.

Of course, if fewer trains are running it must be possible to add in Clapham Junction as an additional stop. I mean off-peak, although peak would be great.

Again it may be possible to stop more semi-fast trains to Alton and Basingstoke at Surbiton in the evening if fewer trains run.

I do hope stakeholders factor all of this in, given they don't want to talk to Joe Public at all.

I don't know if you've seen this thread:

SWML Strategic Study

I just found this document on the network rail website. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/South-West-Main-Line-Strategic-Study.pdf I have not had time to read it all yet but I thought others might be interested in it too. I think it might send me to sleep over the next...

www.railforums.co.uk

but the study that refers to (linked from the first post) includes discussion of the issues involved in stopping fast trains at Clapham Junction (section 6.2.9)

 

[MontyP]

Indeed and if the inner suburban was being run by LO service frequency would be at least 15 mins as we know thats the way to effect modal transfer. Hourly to Dorking is a joke what is really needed on this route is a limited stop service .

Also another operating area thats going to have too many long fixed formation trains. Of course when they realise they've got too many they will be able to take sets out of use and subdivide them back into 5's!

Dorking was limited stop in the pre-2004 timetable - it skipped Raynes Park and Motspur Park I think. I am very surprised that a half-hourly service to Epsom is thought to be sufficient, these trains were all busy during the day pre-pandemic. The quietest suburbans have always been the Chessingtons. What infastructure changes would be required to run Chessington as a shuttle from Motspur Park or Raynes Park?

 

[Bald Rick]

Indeed and if the inner suburban was being run by LO service frequency would be at least 15 mins as we know thats the way to effect modal transfer.

You know better than anyone why you couldn’t have a 15 minute frequency on all the SW Inner suburban branches! Besides, LO don’t do that everywhere - ask the good folk of Enfield and Cheshunt.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It was mentioned in the second post on this thread...

And highlighted as an error in the 4th post….

 

[Horizon22]

Dorking was limited stop in the pre-2004 timetable - it skipped Raynes Park and Motspur Park I think. I am very surprised that a half-hourly service to Epsom is thought to be sufficient, these trains were all busy during the day pre-pandemic. The quietest suburbans have always been the Chessingtons. What infastructure changes would be required to run Chessington as a shuttle from Motspur Park or Raynes Park?

Probably need a new terminating platform, at least. That or some sort of shunt at Raynes Park.