Least successful new stations

[notadriver]

Pudding mill lane (DLR)

 

[dk1]

From the end of October 2021, virtually no air services are scheduled to use Southend Airport. Its railway station might as well be mothballed after this date, or left open with a "parliamentary" service.

A similar comment could be made about Prestwick International Airport railway station, opened in 1994.

I suppose nearer London & the South East will see Southend through. Also it’s Stobarts responsibility to run the station.

 

[Ianno87]

Pudding mill lane (DLR)

A few on light rail:
-Royal Albert (DLR) with very little development having occurred around the station
-Pomona (Metrolink) ditto
-Herdings Park (Supertram - still only a half-hourly service?)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Cottingley - on the grounds of being perhaps the first post-1980 "permanent" station to become proposed for closure (to be replaced by White Rose)

Not really a reflection of Cottingley "failing" though: for the first 20 years it only had housing on one side... then "Churwell New Village" was built right next door just as fast trains increased in frequency meaning only 1tph rather than 2.

Then Leeds City Council embarked on a foolish errand to reduce an entirely car-oriented (both the mall and the business park) development's dependency on cars whilst simultaneously undermining Leeds city centre's enviable status as one of the country's leading retail destinations... and that railway line that was full will still be full.

To paraphrase Betjeman, come friendly bombs, and fall on the WRC.

 

[Journeyman]

Edinburgh Gateway. Due to scaling back the E&G electrification, it's perennially deserted.

 

[alistairlees]

Altofts is probably a good example.

[edit]: perhaps not - I though it has closed and then reopened on a different site in the 1970s, but not according to Wikipedia

 

[70014IronDuke]

What about the original 1980s Corby reopening? That ended up closing a few years later, not sure why it was such a disaster given it's been reopened (again) since and now warrants a half-hourly electric service to London.

Maybe the DMU shuttle had bad connection times at Kettering into IC services?

I think there were some reliability issues with the units, and it was only a shuttle, unlike when Corby opened again in 2009, with through trains to London.

And it was the 80s, a time of less regular travel, probably.

It's also a question of history and 'culture'. Corby was rather self-contained historically, based on steel, and the service in BR days prior to closure was surprisingly poor, I believe. So there would have been practical pressure in the 50s and early 60s on anyone who wanted to travel to get a car ASAP, which in turn, would have meant restricted demand for a better rail service.

 

[Ken H]

I think there were some reliability issues with the units, and it was only a shuttle, unlike when Corby opened again in 2009, with through trains to London.

And it was the 80s, a time of less regular travel, probably.

It's also a question of history and 'culture'. Corby was rather self-contained historically, based on steel, and the service in BR days prior to closure was surprisingly poor, I believe. So there would have been practical pressure in the 50s and early 60s on anyone who wanted to travel to get a car ASAP, which in turn, would have meant restricted demand for a better rail service.

Wasnt there a plan to build Eurodisney in Corby, but they decided to build in Paris instead? Part of the justification for the BR era Corby was traffic to the theme park.

 

[PTR 444]

I'm sure we'll be adding Reston to this list in a few years time!

And Soham - until it gets a direct service to Cambridge!

 

[Ianno87]

And Soham - until it gets a direct service to Cambridge!

Or at least until it gets an hourly service.

 

[PTR 444]

Or at least until it gets an hourly service.

Fair point, same goes for Reston. Why anyone decided to let that go ahead before the ECML could sustain an hourly stopping service between Edinburgh and Newcastle is beyond me.

 

[scrapy]

So that line must have had very few stations before the late 1970s/80s? IIRC it's Belle Vue, Ryder Brow, Brinnington, Bredbury. So Bredbury was the first station on the line before then? Is Ashburys also a newish station? (I had the feeling it was).

Belle Vue wasn't a new one, there is also Reddish North on that line which wasn't new both opened 1875 according to Wikipedia.

 

[Doomotron]

I'm going to be speculative here, but what about Thanet Parkway? Like the Manchester stations mentioned earlier, having new houses built nearby doesn't guarantee success. And since it's going to be unmanned, it's likely going to be a place for undesirable types to hang around...

Also, could the Eurostar platforms at Stratford and Ashford count? Stratford's were built but never used for their intended purpose and now seemingly exist solely for ECS movements to let other trains by. Ashford has had a major decrease in the amount of Eurostar trains stopping there (and I think during COVID there were none) and it makes me wonder why they bother - Southeastern being able to use those platforms could help the capacity issues on P5 and 6.

 

[DanNCL]

British Steel Redcar - opened in 1978, never sustained more than 2,000 entries and exits per year even when the steelworks was open, and hasn't had any train stop there since December 2019.

 

[172007]

Tyseley Warwick Road. Can't be used now due to being blocked by the ORR for some reason I believe; stand to be corrected. Never reached its full potential.

 

[nw1]

Belle Vue wasn't a new one, there is also Reddish North on that line which wasn't new both opened 1875 according to Wikipedia.

Ah right, ISTR Belle Vue and Ryder Brow being very similar in design (as well as very close) which led me to believe that they were built at the same time.

(Haven't used that line in a while, so memory is a bit vague, frequented it quite a bit in the late 90s when it was largely 101s still, with Pacers on some of the longer distance services to Sheffield)

 

[PaulJ]

I'm going to be speculative here, but what about Thanet Parkway? Like the Manchester stations mentioned earlier, having new houses built nearby doesn't guarantee success. And since it's going to be unmanned, it's likely going to be a place for undesirable types to hang around...

Also, could the Eurostar platforms at Stratford and Ashford count? Stratford's were built but never used for their intended purpose and now seemingly exist solely for ECS movements to let other trains by. Ashford has had a major decrease in the amount of Eurostar trains stopping there (and I think during COVID there were none) and it makes me wonder why they bother - Southeastern being able to use those platforms could help the capacity issues on P5 and 6.

I don’t think Thanet Parkway will have any more undesirables than any other station in East Kent. The success (or not) will be dependent on the service offering - we’ll see! The car parks at other stations relatively close by are hardly large, so perhaps Parkway will provide new journey opportunities.

 

[joncombe]

A possibly controversial suggestion, but perhaps pre Chiltern Evergreen, the Oxford to Bicester line. I think it was half a dozen largely empty trains each way. Reopened on the late 80s I think. Successful now it's a through route but certainly wasn't when just a branch.

 

[Ianno87]

A possibly controversial suggestion, but perhaps pre Chiltern Evergreen, the Oxford to Bicester line. I think it was half a dozen largely empty trains each way. Reopened on the late 80s I think. Successful now it's a through route but certainly wasn't when just a branch.

I recall it having dirt cheap fares too - £2 day return from Oxford to Bicester (for example)

 

[tbtc]

I'd recommend page twenty of this document >> https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/3932/demand-forecasting-report.pdf

The benchmarks for most stations seem fairly realistic (in that broadly half are below par, half are above expectations)

Imperial Wharf, Chandlers Ford, Liverpool South Parkway, Newcraighall, Merryton, Aylesbury Vale are on the "naughty list", but that's to be expected given that not everything is going to meet its benchmark - however much some people may want to focus only on Ebbw Vale (which was approved based on lower numbers of demand but then the steel works closed and significantly more people needed to leave Ebbw Vale for work each morning, compared to having a local steelworks that employed huge numbers - I'm not knocking Ebbw Vale - it's clearly a success - but I do get tired when people bring up it's significantly above expectations numbers to suggest that there's a problems with the methodology for other projects - one outlier for specific reasons isn't indicative of a problem with the BCR criteria)

Of course some stations get the green light regardless of any business case - e.g. we didn't open the line to Tweedbank because of amazing passenger expectations, we built it because of good old fashioned political horse-trading

Also, when reading the graph, bear in mind that a station that got half the expected numbers shows at -50% whilst a station that got double the expected numbers shows at +100% on there, so anything above average seems a bit skewed - basic statistics and all that, but it can make some stations look significantly better than they are!

I would agree with the above poster. EMT Parkway seems a bit of a pointless station, especially when many already existing settlements seem to have no station.

It's been a disappointment - I think that part of the problem is that it was imposed on a TOC that weren't able to accommodate it very well

If it was being built right now then it could open at the EMR recast where the additional capacity on the new 810s would allow a half hourly "fast" to Sheffield/ Derby and Nottingham and four "fast" to Leicester/ London (plus the Ivanhoe stoppers) - that'd be good enough to attract a lot of people off the M1 and be confident of a short wait for the next service

Instead, the cramped 222s meant that there was only scope for a minimal one "fast" to Sheffield/ Derby and Nottingham and a badly spaced two "fast" to Leicester/ London (plus the Ivanhoe stoppers) - but with horrendous 15/45 splits on the "fast" Leicester/London services

Someone from somewhere like Rotherham/ Mansfield/ Matlock might be attracted to drive to a station where there was a minimum fifteen minute wait for the next London train, but not for a forty five minute wait

So, if it was in the pipeline now then I think there'd be good days ahead - but Stagecoach had to try to take on the complication of the Corby services and trying to squeeze a stop at EM Parkways into the timetable - it was always going to be a struggle (especially given the lack of spare seats on 222s, so limited scope for cheap advanced tickets)

It had 343,000 passengers in 2019/20. Is that really a disaster?

How many trains does it have an hour, its at 6tph now, what was it pre COVID? its 950 pax a day. Around 110 trains a day, so 8 passengers per train. For a facility like that its not brilliant.

The numbers aren't brilliant but it feels indicative that a station with hundreds of thousands of passengers per annum is regularly brought up as a failure on here whilst a station with a hundred passengers per annum will be defended as providing a vital social service giving unquantifiable public benefits

(same with people complaining about the White Rose Parkway station that's expected to get "only" a six figure number of passengers!)

-Herdings Park (Supertram - still only a half-hourly service?)

Herdings Park had five trams an hour in the early days of Supertram, back when Meadowhall had a shuttle as far as the city centre, and the Halfway branch was being opened in instalments

For those who don't know the area, Herdings Park is next to the high rise flats which suggests a market where public transport should do well - unfortunately it's also slap bang next to the terminus for the 11/11A buses (formerly 47/48) which provide a high frequency bus service into the city centre, so I think that Hedings Park would work well with five trams per hour, but you'll struggle to get many people to wait for a half hourly tram when there's a several buses per hour (same goes for Darnall in Sheffield = how many people are going to wait for an hourly train service at a station a stone's throw from a five minute bus service?)

Middlewood terminus is next to a number of low rise flats but the ten minute tram service killed off the five/ten minute bus service that used to run that way - I feel that if Herdings Park had had a ten/twelve minute service then passenger numbers would have been significantly higher

 

[Ken H]

I'd recommend page twenty of this document >> https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/3932/demand-forecasting-report.pdf

The benchmarks for most stations seem fairly realistic (in that broadly half are below par, half are above expectations)

Imperial Wharf, Chandlers Ford, Liverpool South Parkway, Newcraighall, Merryton, Aylesbury Vale are on the "naughty list", but that's to be expected given that not everything is going to meet its benchmark - however much some people may want to focus only on Ebbw Vale (which was approved based on lower numbers of demand but then the steel works closed and significantly more people needed to leave Ebbw Vale for work each morning, compared to having a local steelworks that employed huge numbers - I'm not knocking Ebbw Vale - it's clearly a success - but I do get tired when people bring up it's significantly above expectations numbers to suggest that there's a problems with the methodology for other projects - one outlier for specific reasons isn't indicative of a problem with the BCR criteria)

Of course some stations get the green light regardless of any business case - e.g. we didn't open the line to Tweedbank because of amazing passenger expectations, we built it because of good old fashioned political horse-trading

Also, when reading the graph, bear in mind that a station that got half the expected numbers shows at -50% whilst a station that got double the expected numbers shows at +100% on there, so anything above average seems a bit skewed - basic statistics and all that, but it can make some stations look significantly better than they are!



It's been a disappointment - I think that part of the problem is that it was imposed on a TOC that weren't able to accommodate it very well

If it was being built right now then it could open at the EMR recast where the additional capacity on the new 810s would allow a half hourly "fast" to Sheffield/ Derby and Nottingham and four "fast" to Leicester/ London (plus the Ivanhoe stoppers) - that'd be good enough to attract a lot of people off the M1 and be confident of a short wait for the next service

Instead, the cramped 222s meant that there was only scope for a minimal one "fast" to Sheffield/ Derby and Nottingham and a badly spaced two "fast" to Leicester/ London (plus the Ivanhoe stoppers) - but with horrendous 15/45 splits on the "fast" Leicester/London services

Someone from somewhere like Rotherham/ Mansfield/ Matlock might be attracted to drive to a station where there was a minimum fifteen minute wait for the next London train, but not for a forty five minute wait

So, if it was in the pipeline now then I think there'd be good days ahead - but Stagecoach had to try to take on the complication of the Corby services and trying to squeeze a stop at EM Parkways into the timetable - it was always going to be a struggle (especially given the lack of spare seats on 222s, so limited scope for cheap advanced tickets)





The numbers aren't brilliant but it feels indicative that a station with hundreds of thousands of passengers per annum is regularly brought up as a failure on here whilst a station with a hundred passengers per annum will be defended as providing a vital social service giving unquantifiable public benefits

(same with people complaining about the White Rose Parkway station that's expected to get "only" a six figure number of passengers!)



Herdings Park had five trams an hour in the early days of Supertram, back when Meadowhall had a shuttle as far as the city centre, and the Halfway branch was being opened in instalments

For those who don't know the area, Herdings Park is next to the high rise flats which suggests a market where public transport should do well - unfortunately it's also slap bang next to the terminus for the 11/11A buses (formerly 47/48) which provide a high frequency bus service into the city centre, so I think that Hedings Park would work well with five trams per hour, but you'll struggle to get many people to wait for a half hourly tram when there's a several buses per hour (same goes for Darnall in Sheffield = how many people are going to wait for an hourly train service at a station a stone's throw from a five minute bus service?)

Middlewood terminus is next to a number of low rise flats but the ten minute tram service killed off the five/ten minute bus service that used to run that way - I feel that if Herdings Park had had a ten/twelve minute service then passenger numbers would have been significantly higher

Is the bus cheaper? If people are skint a price differential will matter.

 

[nw1]

I'd recommend page twenty of this document >> https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/3932/demand-forecasting-report.pdf

The benchmarks for most stations seem fairly realistic (in that broadly half are below par, half are above expectations)

Imperial Wharf, Chandlers Ford, Liverpool South Parkway, Newcraighall, Merryton, Aylesbury Vale are on the "naughty list", but that's to be expected given that not everything is going to meet its benchmark -

Chandlers Ford doesn't seem too badly used, but the service pattern is perhaps something of an issue. It focuses on trips into Southampton, when there is also a 15-minute-interval bus service. Perhaps it needs to focus more to longer-distance destinations, such as towards London?

Perhaps electrification Eastleigh-Chandlers Ford-Romsey would allow through services towards London (e.g portion working off the Waterloo xx09 or xx39) for both Chandlers Ford and Romsey. Perhaps this would generate significant traffic?

 

[YorksLad12]

Cottingley - on the grounds of being perhaps the first post-1980 "permanent" station to become proposed for closure (to be replaced by White Rose)

Not really a reflection of Cottingley "failing" though: for the first 20 years it only had housing on one side... then "Churwell New Village" was built right next door just as fast trains increased in frequency meaning only 1tph rather than 2.

Then Leeds City Council embarked on a foolish errand to reduce an entirely car-oriented (both the mall and the business park) development's dependency on cars whilst simultaneously undermining Leeds city centre's enviable status as one of the country's leading retail destinations... and that railway line that was full will still be full.

To paraphrase Betjeman, come friendly bombs, and fall on the WRC.

Cottingley really bugs me, as part of the rationale for closing it is that no-one uses it... so let's replace it with a new station 750m away which is more difficult to reach by the people who do use Cottingley. Ask this question again in five years and we can safely add White Rose Station to the list.

 

[greyman42]

Pomona (Metrolink) ditto

Do a lot of supporters use it on match days?

 

[Trackman]

-Pomona (Metrolink) ditto

To be fair it was built as an interchange station with the Trafford park line extension in mind.

 

[Bald Rick]

East Midlands Parkway surely a prime candidate here? There are towns on the EML without stations, yet we built one in the middle of nowhere instead.

It had 343,000 passengers in 2019/20. Is that really a disaster?

It’s not good for the price it cost.

Wasnt there a plan to build Eurodisney in Corby

It was ‘Fantasyland’ or something similar, but not Disney.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What's the feeling about the recently-opened Worcestershire Parkway and Warrington West?

 

[Djgr]

What about the original 1980s Corby reopening? That ended up closing a few years later, not sure why it was such a disaster given it's been reopened (again) since and now warrants a half-hourly electric service to London.

Maybe the DMU shuttle had bad connection times at Kettering into IC services?

It has a half hour service but does it warrant it?

 

[Ianno87]

It has a half hour service but does it warrant it?

Basically a convenient turnback for the "North Northamptonshire semi-fast" service.

 

[Llandudno]

Fishguard and Goodwick

Bow Street