ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[PaulMc7]

Probably not haha. Feels pretty pointless to me tbh. As plenty of people have pointed out already in this thread I don't think there's much of an appetite from any of the parties involved to resolve this thing.

I still think that's why the strikes happened to be honest. Anyone with a working brain could probably have worked out from the beginning what was gonna happen. RMT are stubborn but the staff get a Sunday rest, Abellio won't want to lose more money and the government will want the train expenses to be as cheap as possible for when Abellio leave. I don't blame them either. Other than two trains that I've been on the rest have been incredibly quiet. I also wouldn't be surprised if more trains were cut going into 2023 either.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

I work trains every day and off peak trains are busy, as busy as they were pre pandemic from my experience. Saturday's are bedlam.

 

[43066]

Certainly in the bus industry it's always been a general practice to run a bit under establishment because some drivers like to top up their wages with overtime, eg if saving for a holiday. From experience I can tell you that full staffing doesn't go down well. Unfortunately at the moment the complete opposite problem is the case.

Unlike the railways, however, there's never been the issue of Sundays being reliant on overtime.

Both major rail unions have zero overtime/full complement as their stated objectives (a la LU). If that actually came to fruition it would get a mixed reception - there are certainly a few drivers who seem to be reliant on it (it’s possible to near enough double the basic salary) who would be in for a nasty shock if it came to an end. Equally there are many who do none at all, with most somewhere between the two. There’s such an ingrained culture of overtime dating back to BR that it’s difficult to imagine it ever really changing. As the saying goes: “the railway runs on tea and overtime”!

 

[John Bishop]

I still think that's why the strikes happened to be honest. Anyone with a working brain could probably have worked out from the beginning what was gonna happen. RMT are stubborn but the staff get a Sunday rest, Abellio won't want to lose more money and the government will want the train expenses to be as cheap as possible for when Abellio leave. I don't blame them either. Other than two trains that I've been on the rest have been incredibly quiet. I also wouldn't be surprised if more trains were cut going into 2023 either.

That is not representative of the reality of rail travel uptake recently. Sometimes it’s hard to believe there ever was a lockdown. Quite a number of daily services full and standing.

 

[Goldfish62]

That is not representative of the reality of rail travel uptake recently. Sometimes it’s hard to believe there ever was a lockdown. Quite a number of daily services full and standing.

Yes, my train into London in yesterday's AM peak was at crush capacity and I had to queue for the Waterloo and City line. All the long distance services I've been on recently have been at least as busy as pre-Covid.

It may of course be a different matter in Scotland.

 

[wobman]

I work trains every day and off peak trains are busy, as busy as they were pre pandemic from my experience. Saturday's are bedlam.

I have the same experience with train services but all the doom and gloom people want huge service cuts, then there would be even more chaos than we have now.

 

[wobman]

That is not representative of the reality of rail travel uptake recently. Sometimes it’s hard to believe there ever was a lockdown. Quite a number of daily services full and standing.

I agree 1000%

 

[PaulMc7]

That is not representative of the reality of rail travel uptake recently. Sometimes it’s hard to believe there ever was a lockdown. Quite a number of daily services full and standing.

I've only used trains on Saturdays and one Sunday I think since before lockdown and other than one Balloch train, a Largs train when Troon was still affected and a train into Glasgow Central from Motherwell they've been incredibly quiet. I don't use the train that often but I'd say 3 out of 9-10 trains I've used were busy. I don't doubt that other times are busier but that's my experience personally.

 

[Starmill]

There are are a handful of trains at certain times of day on certain routes which are over capacity, but the overall quantum of travellers remains significantly below what it was in 2019, and the revenue trails that. Running no trains whatsoever for a couple of weeks would still be a net saving. Not that that's the point, obviously, but there it is.

 

[wobman]

There are are a handful of trains at certain times of day on certain routes which are over capacity, but the overall quantum of travellers remains significantly below what it was in 2019, and the revenue trails that. Running no trains whatsoever for a couple of weeks would still be a net saving. Not that that's the point, obviously, but there it is.

The experience I have on a daily basis is that commutter numbers are still down but rising, but leisure travel is higher than previous years and still that way. Running less trains but strengthening them maybe a short term solution, but the government need to get people back on public transport.
So cancelling trains won't incentivise people to use public transport...

 

[John Bishop]

The railways in Scotland have never been a revenue earner. The E and G was the only route that made a profit. We will never be in a position where vast profit is made from the railways and a certain amount of public subsidy is required to provide that public service. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing as I suspect most Rail networks require government funding to some degree.

 

[Starmill]

The railways in Scotland have never been a revenue earner. The E and G was the only route that made a profit. We will never be in a position where vast profit is made from the railways and a certain amount of public subsidy is required to provide that public service. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing as I suspect most Rail networks require government funding to some degree.

It's not a question of turning a profit, or indeed of even covering substantially all of the costs commercially. It's just a question of justifying that the operational subsidy is value for money i.e. it shouldn't be spent somewhere else instead.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

The experience I have on a daily basis is that commutter numbers are still down but rising, but leisure travel is higher than previous years and still that way. Running less trains but strengthening them maybe a short term solution, but the government need to get people back on public transport.
So cancelling trains won't incentivise people to use public transport...

Totally agree. We're still in a situation where people are being encouraged to work from home too so that's worth baring in mind.

 

[dk1]

Totally agree. We're still in a situation where people are being encouraged to work from home too so that's worth baring in mind.

Are they still advising that in Scotland?

 

[LoogaBarooga]

As far as I'm aware.

 

[dk1]

As far as I'm aware.

That has surprised me. So much difference between various parts of the UK.

 

[Berliner]

Are they still advising that in Scotland?

Yes there doesn't appear to be an end in sight to WFH being the official line, although there are people in offices now anyway. There are still lots of posters around on trains advising not to travel at peak times and with scotrail still having no onboard catering (are they the only TOC in the UK who had a service before to not have reintroduced it yet?) There doesn't seem to be much effort being made to get people back on trains.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes there doesn't appear to be an end in sight to WFH being the official line, although there are people in offices now anyway. There are still lots of posters around on trains advising not to travel at peak times and with scotrail still having no onboard catering (are they the only TOC in the UK who had a service before to not have reintroduced it yet?) There doesn't seem to be much effort being made to get people back on trains.

Extraordinary situation. What on earth is the Scottish government playing at?!

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Yes there doesn't appear to be an end in sight to WFH being the official line, although there are people in offices now anyway. There are still lots of posters around on trains advising not to travel at peak times and with scotrail still having no onboard catering (are they the only TOC in the UK who had a service before to not have reintroduced it yet?) There doesn't seem to be much effort being made to get people back on trains.

Aye the "5 rules for safer travel" don't really feel applicable any more.

They should just scrap peak period anyway. Total waste of time now.

 

[43066]

Extraordinary situation. What on earth is the Scottish government playing at?!

The dominant party in Scotland is fixated on Scottish independence, to the exclusion of everything else. It is therefore desperate to do anything to differentiate itself from Westminster, however stupid and damaging to the wider Scottish economy this action may be. There are parallels with the idiot London Mayor’s futile obsession with masks.

 

[Carlisle]

scotrail still having no onboard catering (are they the only TOC in the UK who had a service before to not have reintroduced it yet?)

SWR ?

 

[Starmill]

SWR ?

Transport for Wales have only reintroduced it on two services per day, with general catering coming "soon".

As far as I'm aware.

It's a little bit nuanced - from the front page of the government website:

It's important to remember that coronavirus hasn't gone away.

We all need to follow the rules in place and continue to be careful.

To stay safe you should:

• get the vaccine when you are offered it
• wear a face covering where required
• wash your hands regularly, and cover your nose and mouth if coughing or sneezing
• self isolate and take a PCR test if you have symptoms
• take regular tests if you don’t have symptoms to reduce the risk of spreading the virus
• meet outside if you can, and open windows when indoors
• keep your distance from people not in your group
• work from home, or do a mixture of home and office working if possible
• use the Protect Scotland and Check-in Scotland apps

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in Scotland

There are no covid rules or restrictions in Scotland. Find out what to do if you have symptoms, about testing, and how to stay well.

www.gov.scot

 

[Blindtraveler]

Let's be honest here, if a little cynical

The less promotion of and incentive to travel by rail in Scotland the better as far as ScotRail and transport Scotland are concerned. As if they haven't got the numbers back they can more easily justify their new "death of a thousand cuts" 80s or 90s timewarp timetable next spring

 

[dk1]

Yes there doesn't appear to be an end in sight to WFH being the official line, although there are people in offices now anyway. There are still lots of posters around on trains advising not to travel at peak times and with scotrail still having no onboard catering (are they the only TOC in the UK who had a service before to not have reintroduced it yet?) There doesn't seem to be much effort being made to get people back on trains.

It does come across as a very poor show all round. To not have catering on some of those longer routes too must be very off putting.

SWR ?

Didn’t SWR cancel their catering contract with Elior last year?

 

[InOban]

I don't know about other routes but there is catering on several WHL services.

The absence of Sunday trains is awful to Oban trains because, particularly out of summer, Sunday is the busiest day of the week. Alit of weekend travel.

 

[snookertam]

I’d be interested to see how ScotRail manage to talk their way out of the potential strike action for COP26. I’m struggling to see how they’d manage to prevent a strike and talk them round, even by ceding to the RMTs demands.

 

[Carlisle]

Transport for Wales have only reintroduced it on two services per day, with general catering coming "soon".

Oh yes , sorry forgot TFW

 

[sannox]

For the commonwealth games wasn't there an enhanced payment made to prevent disruption during that period? Presume the same would happen for COP26 if the Scottish Government want it.

 

[Deltic1961]

So put on a show for the dignitaries but screw the customers who actually try to use the train every Sunday. Sounds about right.

 

[Carlisle]

For the commonwealth games wasn't there an enhanced payment made to prevent disruption during that period?

You really shouldn’t need to offer an enhanced payment to staff already widely recognised as relatively well rewarded just to preform their normal duties , minimum wage hospitality cleaning & security roles etc yes by all means do .