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Weather disruption Friday 26 November onwards - Storm Arwen

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30907

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According to Real time Trains the 1218 Leeds - Morecambe is running, albeit 10 late. 1318 to Carlisle looks cancelled. Maybe they cant get staff to Blea Moor.
Belatedly: the 1218 got to Skipton, I imagine because the crew were finishing their duty, and terminated.
Yes, and we had a possible recurance a couple of weeks ago when a fairly narrow swathe of the country from Dorset to Lincolnshire experienced servere linear winds, it was either a sting jet or derecho (different causes similar end result...). Small (on a meteorological) scale events are very difficult to forecast and there is still a lot to learn.
That was the one that caused massive localised issues on the WCML (when the chainsaw gang were expecting trouble further north where there was a warning out), the ECML and to a lesser extent the MML... and, reportedly at least, in the vicinity of Tunnel Junction Salisbury. See numerous threads!
 
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Merseysider

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Errrmmm forgive me, but staff got off and went to the supermarket??? Like there was a supermarket nearby??? No way i owuld have sat on that train for 17 hours, air BnB and booking.com and i would of [sic] been off the train.........
Tesco and Asda superstores just on the other side of town.

Easy to say that about Airbnb/booking.com, but given there are no large chain hotels in Huntly & at the time of writing, for tonight, there is only one establishment left with any vacancies, I strongly suspect there were no rooms available whatsoever when the night set in.
 

Nova1

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My daughter, Manina, is texting me from Leamington Spa. Apparently the situation is causing a fair amount of confusion for her. Looks like I'm taking the old Jeep out for a spin tonight. Watch out ladies and gents... prunes is on the road haha
yes, from what I've heard from people on the ground it's not being communicated clearly what's happening to all the lost XC customers trying to get towards coventry or birmingham international. Amusingly WMR passengers are not really affected since WMR were running buses anyway. XC say buses are running to get customers from leamington spa to coventry (although, if you haven't got a not via birmingham ticket you should probably just go into birmingham and change)
 

david1212

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My daughter, Manina, is texting me from Leamington Spa. Apparently the situation is causing a fair amount of confusion for her. Looks like I'm taking the old Jeep out for a spin tonight. Watch out ladies and gents... prunes is on the road haha

Of course much depends on her destination / direction of travel plus number of passengers vs train capacity but Chiltern looked to be running with delays of no more than 30 minutes and as reported XC running via Solihull although longer delays.
Either though ought to be better than you setting off from London ( your stated profile location ).
 

Prunes

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Of course much depends on her destination / direction of travel plus number of passengers vs train capacity but Chiltern looked to be running with delays of no more than 30 minutes and as reported XC running via Solihull although longer delays.
Either though ought to be better than you setting off from London ( your stated profile location ).
Haha! Well half the time I'm not in London, but I'll spare you the details :) and luckily she's on her way now. Bad night to be travelling!
 

CHAPS2034

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My daughter, Manina, is texting me from Leamington Spa. Apparently the situation is causing a fair amount of confusion for her. Looks like I'm taking the old Jeep out for a spin tonight. Watch out ladies and gents... prunes is on the road haha

If you do have to go out in your Jeep, with a user name like that I'm sure the wind will be behind you... o_O

Hope it all gets sorted out.
 

Jurg

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Amusingly WMR passengers are not really affected since WMR were running buses anyway.
I had arrived at Leamington in good time expecting to get the 18:02 WMR service to Bermuda Park, which I found was cancelled. Station staff told me the next rail replacement bus was 18:40. I didn't fancy waiting that long so agreed with the station staff that it was probably better to get the 18:15 Manchester train and change in Brum. Thankfully I made the (quite tight) change at New Street for the XC train to Nuneaton. Not quite my intended destination, but close enough and only about an hour late home.

Not catastrophic for me, but a bit of a stretch to say WMR passengers weren't affected. Glad to hear the XC driver is OK, looked a nasty smash.
 

Nova1

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I had arrived at Leamington in good time expecting to get the 18:02 WMR service to Bermuda Park, which I found was cancelled.
Strangely it appeared this train was planned to be cancelled between Coventry and Nuneaton (shortage of train crew) but was then cancelled throughout because of the line being blocked.

Surely it would have made more sense for you to wait for the bus (which is scheduled to get to Bermuda Park at 1949)
 

miklcct

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I'm on the delayed CrossCountry service departing 21:52 at Reading to Bournemouth. This train will additionally call at Winchester because of the preceding and the following SWR trains have both been cancelled.
 

Jurg

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Strangely it appeared this train was planned to be cancelled between Coventry and Nuneaton (shortage of train crew) but was then cancelled throughout because of the line being blocked.

Surely it would have made more sense for you to wait for the bus (which is scheduled to get to Bermuda Park at 1949)
I was home by 19:49, I think I made the right call.
 
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Let's be clear - yesterday we had RED weather warnings.

We did indeed in north-east England and the east coast of Scotland, although my query was about people stuck at Liverpool Central where I believe an amber or yellow warning was in force - certainly not something to be taken lightly but not a red warning if we're being careful with the details here.

What would you do if, having already worked more hours than you're contracted to do, you got home and then received a phone call asking you to come back in to work and drive a high-sided vehicle in winds potentially gusting up to 100mph? I know what my response would be!

The risk to people being blown about in high-sided vehicles should be taken seriously, but has to be balanced against the risk to people stuck in the street overnight in a storm, which according to what I was told included at least one group of teenage girls and at least one very confused man with a mental issue that meant he didn't know where he was going when his train was cancelled. (These particular passengers really should have been packed off home in taxis.)

Unless the winds were so high that it was obviously too dangerous to be out on the roads - not quite the case in Liverpool last night since I believe there were buses running and other vehicles moving around - then my response to being asked to come back into work to help shift stranded passengers would be "yes, for a decent rate of overtime, for which you can send the bill to the train operating companies."

The TOCs who left vulnerable passengers stranded last night are private businesses making a profit from their provision of paid-for services on the railway. If the line is physically blocked and people have bought tickets, and were relying on the trains to get them home, it is reasonable to expect the TOCs to attempt the following:

  • activate contingency plans thought up in advance to prioritise getting the most vulnerable passengers home, instead of turning them out on the street
  • fork out for replacement bus services to the extent it's possible to bring these into service (which I fully accept might be limited)
  • failing that, fork out for taxis (again to the extent possible, again I accept they can't be conjured out of thin air)
  • failing that, put people who have no means of going anywhere until morning in hotels
  • ensure passengers are not left out of pocket
  • proactively inform passengers of their rights to refunds, compensation etc, instead of leaving all this totally opaque
This really should not be considered too much for passengers to ask. Expecting a magic fleet of buses to appear and whisk you away to your warm bed with no delay is not a reasonable expectation, but there is a happy medium between that and, to quote from Merseyrail's Twitter last night:

No further train services run across the Northern Line this evening. Passengers are advised to make their own alternative travel arrangements.
 

Dai Corner

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Were the service buses running in Merseyside last night? Do Merseyrail serve any areas that the buses don't?
 

jkkne

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Looking like the Tyne and Wear Metro hope to run South Shields to St James tomorrow but other line to Sunderland remains suspended, guessing they are waiting on network rail
 

507020

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No injuries apparently, but that’s one sorry looking voyager (that’s also blocking the single line between Coventry and Leamington Spa)
Was the tree not already blocking it before the Voyager hit it?
 

Bald Rick

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The TOCs who left vulnerable passengers stranded last night are private businesses making a profit from their provision of paid-for services on the railway.

Private businesses, yes, but they wouldn’t be making a profit from not providing services home. Indeed, as businesses on cost plus contracts, they would make more profit from providing them.
 
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Having travelled from York to Edinburgh today by way of Leeds, Blackburn, Preston, Carlisle, a bus to Glasgow, and then finally over to Edinburgh (9.5h total), I have to comment on how well members of staff handled everything today but god was it awful at times
 

Pseudonym

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No trains going anywhere in North Wales this morning. Trees down everywhere. No buses available.
Possible very stupid question....
Given that the pictured train in the post is a freight - presumably with a mass of an awful lot - could it not just be driven very very slowly to push the tree (which appears relatively small) out of the way?
I have seen a tractor (with presumably much less oomph than a Class 66) push a tree from a road.
(Refers to post 197 - not sure how to/if possible to copy the photo)
 

ashkeba

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Apology if already posted but a tree took out overhead wires north of Royston. Lots of Great Northern and Thameslink services cancelled, creative scheduling and turning at Cambridge to run something like the normal service north of there and London passengers directed to Liverpool Street. A few people who missed the last trains to places like Ipswich and March as a result were put into grouped taxis. Very well handled, but probably a lot of delay repay claims to come!
 

Bald Rick

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Possible very stupid question....
Given that the pictured train in the post is a freight - presumably with a mass of an awful lot - could it not just be driven very very slowly to push the tree (which appears relatively small) out of the way?
I have seen a tractor (with presumably much less oomph than a Class 66) push a tree from a road.
(Refers to post 197 - not sure how to/if possible to copy the photo)

It would be more than likely to ride up over the tree leading to risk of derailment.
 

johnnychips

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Following on from your post @Bald Rick and #289, again what might seem a daft question. How do fallen trees get removed? Does a gang arrive on a slowly driven train then pull it off with ropes (with or without the train’s power), or is it all cut up into bits with chainsaws and cast to the side?
 

Cowley

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Following on from your post @Bald Rick and #289, again what might seem a daft question. How do fallen trees get removed? Does a gang arrive on a slowly driven train then pull it off with ropes (with or without the train’s power), or is it all cut up into bits with chainsaws and cast to the side?

I’d think definitely the latter, which obviously includes having trained chainsaw operatives in the area.
I’ve got a chainsaw myself and I’ve used it to clear local roads a few times over the years.
It can be quick removing a tree once it’s chopped up into small sections if you have the correct equipment.
 

M60lad

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I know it will probably take time but will both the 170 and the Voyager be repaired? If so where will they both go to be repaired?
 

Andy Pacer

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I had arrived at Leamington in good time expecting to get the 18:02 WMR service to Bermuda Park, which I found was cancelled. Station staff told me the next rail replacement bus was 18:40. I didn't fancy waiting that long so agreed with the station staff that it was probably better to get the 18:15 Manchester train and change in Brum. Thankfully I made the (quite tight) change at New Street for the XC train to Nuneaton. Not quite my intended destination, but close enough and only about an hour late home.

Not catastrophic for me, but a bit of a stretch to say WMR passengers weren't affected. Glad to hear the XC driver is OK, looked a nasty smash.
Presumably the 18:15 Manchester diverted between Leamington Spa and Birmingham to avoid Coventry?
 

2392

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One contributory problem the rail network has, be it the national intercity or local like the T & W Metro. Is that much of it has become a linear woodland. Speaking of the Metro, the management were hoping to run a skeleton service of sorts from 9am +/- yesterday, but no on account of the amount of timber and other debris etc on the track. They have already cancelled all services today too. You only need to look at photos from as recently as the eighties to see what I mean about turning into a woodland. There'd be the odd tree inside the fence and landowners adjoining would tend to keep trees away from the adjoining land on their side of the fence too.
 
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TPO

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One contributory problem the rail network has, be it the national intercity or local like the T & W Metro. Is that much of it has become a linear woodland. Speaking of the Metro, the management were hopoing to run a skeleton service of sorts from 9am +/- yesterday, but no on account of the amount of timber and other debris etc on the track. They have already cancelled all services today too. You only need to look at photos from as recently as the eighties to see what I mean about turning into a woodland. There'd be the odd tree inside the fence and landowners adjoining would tend to keep trees away from the adjoining land on their side of the fence too.

Very much so.

I had to do a long journey by road yesterday and I noticed there were quite a few trees down...... but they only protruded into the hard shoulder at most.

Equally it's noticeable that for the past 2 or 3 years, Highways England (and similarly the motorway authority in Wales) has been on a concerted campaign to cut back the vegetation alongside motorways and trunk roads, on motorways it's typically cut back a lane width. When they go in, they raze everything and chip it.

Contrast that with the railways where as soon as Network Rail attempted to do the same, the Guardianista/metropolitan tree huggers brigade got it stopped...... it's really about time we stopped listening to these people.

It's about time we should let Network Rail do what the Highways authority is permitted- not only in vegetation management but also in taking total blocks from 8pm until 6am (instead of 01:00 to 04:30) and see how much more reliable they could make the infrastructure..........

TPO
 

DanNCL

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One contributory problem the rail network has, be it the national intercity or local like the T & W Metro. Is that much of it has become a linear woodland. Speaking of the Metro, the management were hopoing to run a skeleton service of sorts from 9am +/- yesterday, but no on account of the amount of timber and other debris etc on the track. They have already cancelled all services today too. You only need to look at photos from as recently as the eighties to see what I mean about turning into a woodland. There'd be the odd tree inside the fence and landowners adjoining would tend to keep trees away from the adjoining land on their side of the fence too.
Looking like the Tyne and Wear Metro hope to run South Shields to St James tomorrow but other line to Sunderland remains suspended, guessing they are waiting on network rail
Metro are resuming service on part of the Yellow line (between North Shields and South Shields via Newcastle) from 10am. The rest of the network will remain shut for the day.

There are multiple issues preventing the Green line from running today. Network Rail haven’t reopened the line to Sunderland preventing Metro access South of Pelaw, meanwhile on Nexus infrastructure a tree came down next to Regent Centre Station, bringing a complex section of wiring down with it (which is yet to be fixed) and trapping units on the Airport branch. There’s the question as to how many of the units stabled at Pelaw over the weekend (because of a planned depot possession) are still fit for service - outstabling at Pelaw is avoided where possible as units stabled there overnight almost always end up vandalised, often to a point where they can’t be used for service. Finally, assuming Howdon depot is not accessible with the Yellow line past it remaining shut, the 20 units stabled there also can’t be used for service today, without them you can’t run both Green and Yellow line services as there aren’t enough units left at Gosforth to do so, especially with some of the units that should have been at Gosforth being trapped on the Airport branch.
 

Annetts key

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Following on from your post @Bald Rick and #289, again what might seem a daft question. How do fallen trees get removed? Does a gang arrive on a slowly driven train then pull it off with ropes (with or without the train’s power), or is it all cut up into bits with chainsaws and cast to the side?
How a tree or branch is dealt with depends on how big it is, where it has fallen and who attends first.
Sometimes a train driver can manage to move a small tree or branch clear of the line just enough so that trains can pass (often at reduced speed).

Obviously this is not practical for larger trees or branches.

Often the on duty P.Way team or the on-call P.Way team will attend first. But a MOM or S&T fault team may also attend. Some of these staff may have hand saws to cut the small and medium tree branches.

Off track staff being sent to deal with the larger trees/branches (off track are the department responsible for vegetation). Off track staff have all the appropriate tools (such as chain saws) to deal with trees and other vegetation.

It’s not normal practice to try to use the train to try to move a fallen tree.

The biggest problem with a large storm, is the sheer number of incidents. Not just trees, but everything else that the wind and weather does. Every report of an obstruction has to be followed up if there is any change of it causing danger to trains. Plus all the other problems, such as debris causing point failures, problems with level crossing equipment (barriers) due to the weather etc.

The number of incidents can quickly exceed the capacity of the number of staff available to deal with these incidents. The on duty staff will be working hard going from one problem to the next. Often experiencing problems on the road network. And having to work in extreme weather conditions.
 
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