Guardian article: SWR leaves passengers stranded

[D1537]

Not the greatest optics here, it has to be said.

South Western left my 16-year-old son stranded at a locked, unstaffed station

The company’s failings expose discrepancies in consumer protection between air and rail travel

www.theguardian.com

A storm was raging when South Western Railway ordered all passengers to alight. The delayed 18.27 London to Exeter service was an hour from its destination, and torrential rain had prompted the company to abandon the journey.

An announcement promised that coaches would relay travellers onwards but, when the train terminated at Yeovil Junction, no coaches could be found. Travellers would need to find taxis but none were available either.

The conductor reboarded the train and it drove off into the night leaving a couple of dozen people, including an unaccompanied minor, stranded on the platform of a locked, unstaffed station in the middle of the countryside.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Where to start.

Oh, it's the miserablist Guardian and a person in a privileged position (as a national journalist) pursuing a personal story (her own son). Easy copy or what!

Everything seems to have been resolved, fares refunded, extra costs re-imbursed and an apology issued.

There is an issue about people not being provided with onward transport.

A locked station. We had one of those a short while back. In that case (Blackburn) it was physically impossible to leave the premises. Here the passengers were not physically prevented from leaving railway premises, it was the station building which was locked.

Detail on the actual time that the abandonment took place is vague, references to 2300 (but that was after time had elapsed) and near to midnight (when they finally arrived at a hotel). 1820 from Waterloo (December 2021 timetable) arrives at Yeovil Junction at 2040, no mention of what the train delay was on the day. What happened to all the subsequent trains scheduled to call at Yoevil Junction that day - including ones reversing to Yeovil Pen Mill (much closer to the town centre)?

The 16 year old was not alone - there were other adults present - but that is not a guarantee of assistance nor safety. He was considered sensible enough to travel on his own even if put onto the train in person and met in person at the other end (not stated in the article).

The issue I would have is of detraining passengers, into the cold and dark with minimal shelter and people not necessarily fully equipped for such circumstances. My view would be that passengers should not be detrained until the onward transport is confirmed, preferably present on-site. Better for them to sit on the train and wait - and if that means having to pay overtime to the driver and guard, or even leave the train in the platform until another can rescue it, so be it.

Edit
The reversing trains, are they a feature added with the timetable change this weekend?

 

[allotments]

also reminds me of thread 216890

west-midlands-trains-duty-of-care-lnr-passengers-abandoned-on-platform

Reading this forum, it seems that abandoning passengers, failure in duty of care and non-existent promised onward transport happens regularly enough that one day it will happen to each and every one of us.

This is inconvenient and uncomfortable enough for most of us but particularly bad news for vulnerable passengers.

If a station is locked and there's nowhere staffed, warm, dry and safe for passengers to await rescue surely passengers should not be disembarked until safety is assured. I mean for example not until until replacement road transport has actually arrived or station waiting facilities are powered up and unlocked.

 

[robbeech]

Glad we got a “overreaction, lot of fuss over nothing, railway can down no wrong” post in nice and early anyway. Can sometimes be left hanging until at least page 2 for one of those.

SWR also kicked about 40 people off a train and ran it empty last night letting them all fend for themselves despite being staffed. Seems to be absolutely normal and expected of the railway today.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Discussion point. Was there a genuine attempt made to procure replacement road transport or was this just a pretext to get the passengers off the train?

 

[Western Sunset]

I think that's what Barty Simpson would say is "ironing"...

 

[James H]

I do think it's unacceptable that some TOC's help points connect you to NRE or some other outsourced contact centre, rather than someone working directly for the TOC with some degree of local knowledge and awareness of current operational conditions, and the ability to resolve things.

I have had bad experiences with help points on Southern and FGW (as it was then) in the past - and these were in the daytime with plenty of time to work around the issue.

I could forgive SWR most of the rest, if they made sure it was always possible to speak to a representative of the company from any help point at any time when the company's trains are operating (and slightly beyond)

 

[seagull]

Glad we got a “overreaction, lot of fuss over nothing, railway can down no wrong” post in nice and early anyway. Can sometimes be left hanging until at least page 2 for one of those.

SWR also kicked about 40 people off a train and ran it empty last night letting them all fend for themselves despite being staffed. Seems to be absolutely normal and expected of the railway today.

Well, we also didn't have to wait until page 2 before we got the overreaction in the other extreme, either, did we?

 

[Factotum]

Glad we got a “overreaction, lot of fuss over nothing, railway can down no wrong” post in nice and early anyway. Can sometimes be left hanging until at least page 2 for one of those.

SWR also kicked about 40 people off a train and ran it empty last night letting them all fend for themselves despite being staffed. Seems to be absolutely normal and expected of the railway today.

So many questions. How do you "kick people off a train" . Are rail staff entitled to use force on a passenger who refuses to disembark? What would the crew have done if the passengers insisted on staying on the train. If the train was able to leave the station why couldn't it take the passengers

 

[robbeech]

Well, we also didn't have to wait until page 2 before we got the overreaction in the other extreme, either, did we?

Indeed not, but the ‘extreme’ you’re complaining about is passengers wanting to exercise their rights they’ve paid for and not be left stranded on a cold station platform. The extremes I’m talking about are railway staff thinking it’s acceptable to ignore regulations, ignore any form of duty of care, and wipe their hands of their contracted responsibility, something that is happening with an alarming increase in frequency.

if it weren’t for those pesky passengers eh.

So many questions. How do you "kick people off a train" . Are rail staff entitled to use force on a passenger who refuses to disembark? What would the crew have done if the passengers insisted on staying on the train. If the train was able to leave the station why couldn't it take the passengers

You tell them little fibs.
We are terminating the train here, there will be another train, or there will be a replacement bus, or station staff will assist you. They they get off of the train assuming things re in order where as in reality either the staff on the train are making it up so to minimise conflict so they can get on their way ECS or MUCH more likely, they’re just passing on the information that they’ve been given so are just doing what they think is the right thing. Operators absolutely lie through their teeth on some of these occasions, most people left in this incident (and last nights incident I used as another example from the same toc) will be fine. Annoyed but fine, they won’t know you can claim anything, but just incase they do, rest assured the operator will reject everything unless threatened.

we have these threads every few weeks if not more frequent. We get the same nonsense from the anti passenger brigade and the same Nonsense from the anti railway brigade and nothing is learnt from it. The tax payer foots the bill providing zero incentive for the toc to even talk about it over a coffee.

 

[Wychwood93]

Just a thought - was this 'one of those days' when the Met Office and assorted TOC's suggested that travelling, rail, road etc. was not a good idea? You travel on 'one of those days' and you, as per assorted other posts, expect magic buses and magic taxis to suddenly appear? Hmmm! I do agree that something better than being 'dumped' at Yeovil Jn. should have been possible. Middle of somewhere in the middle of nowhere - Sherborne would have been a better option. Still no better chance of a 'magic bus/taxi', but a better chance than Yeovil.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where did the train go to once "out of service"? Back towards Salisbury?

 

[Clayton]

I thought this was a terrible story, though obviously there could have been information that wasn’t given.

Silly question maybe, but where did the train go off to? Couldn’t it have taken the passengers, so that their onward transport could have been arranged at the depot? I know that’s not the usual way but being left at a deserted station late at night isn’t acceptable.

 

[dgl]

Or, assuming route knowledge, could the train have gone to Pen Mill for detrainment, much better location than Junction and an easy walk to town.

 

[seagull]

Indeed not, but the ‘extreme’ you’re complaining about is passengers wanting to exercise their rights they’ve paid for and not be left stranded on a cold station platform. The extremes I’m talking about are railway staff thinking it’s acceptable to ignore regulations, ignore any form of duty of care, and wipe their hands of their contracted responsibility, something that is happening with an alarming increase in frequency.

if it weren’t for those pesky passengers eh.

The "extreme" I'm complaining about is actually the generalising going on that seems to lump all railway staff into one category of "can't care, won't care" - something that is happening here with an alarming increase in frequency.

And all that achieves here is to drive away those staff (which are likely a majority in the industry) who very much DO care and do what they can to deliver good service, but get rather sick and tired of the condescension and contempt written here, oft-times unthinkingly.

Now I would be first in line to opine that the railway needs a lot of improving in some areas, but on the other hand, having travelled extensively in other countries and used their railway systems, there is also much here that is done well, not that one would think that reading this forum. Such is life, we only generally feel moved to put pen to paper or finger to keyboard when it's to have a good old rant. Myself included...

 

[Farang]

Anna Timms normally polishes off these case studies in 4 or 5 paragraphs. This one is 18 paragraphs long.

 

[Gloster]

Anna Timms normally polishes off these case studies in 4 or 5 paragraphs. This one is 18 paragraphs long.

Maybe because she has better and fuller access to information about the incident than is usually the case. Normally, when readers write in with problems, a great deal of their letters has to be omitted from the article because of the laws of libel or uncertainties about the accuracy of the details included.

 

[Farang]

Maybe because she has better and fuller access to information about the incident than is usually the case. Normally, when readers write in with problems, a great deal of their letters has to be omitted from the article because of the laws of libel or uncertainties about the accuracy of the details included.

Or maybe she's more motivated. More than once I've seen a BTL comment in response to articles by her or her consumer affairs colleagues on the lines of 'Is that all?'

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Well for one, I now have learnt now not to trust a train crew late at night when they try to detrain me at a station, I will be sticking to my guns to know when the onward transport is going to turn up, and demand that they wait with me on a warm train in the platform until this transport arrives, and that if they don't like it they can call the BTP to remove me who'll take a few hours to arrive in rural Somerset, and when I then get removed forcibly or peacefully if the BTP are reasonable I've then got one or more authority figures who can get things done stood in front of me.
Ultimately use everything in your power as leverage to get a reasonable outcome. There have been too many stories of TOCs doing this and I think too many passengers act like sheep and will be fooled or bullied off a train when standing their ground would get better results

 

[SimplyLlama]

Where did the train go to once "out of service"? Back towards Salisbury?

Most likely as Salisbury TMD is the closest depot to Yeovil unless it is full

 

[nanstallon]

Well for one, I now have learnt now not to trust a train crew late at night when they try to detrain me at a station, I will be sticking to my guns to know when the onward transport is going to turn up, and demand that they wait with me on a warm train in the platform until this transport arrives, and that if they don't like it they can call the BTP to remove me who'll take a few hours to arrive in rural Somerset, and when I then get removed forcibly or peacefully if the BTP are reasonable I've then got one or more authority figures who can get things done stood in front of me.
Ultimately use everything in your power as leverage to get a reasonable outcome. There have been too many stories of TOCs doing this and I think too many passengers act like sheep and will be fooled or bullied off a train when standing their ground would get better results

It is hard to avoid being bullied off a train when the police are available to support the bully.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

I will happily be forced off a train by an officer, because I've then got an authority figure stood in front of me with a direct line the TOCs control room. I wouldn't do enough to be arrested and as I said the BTP aren't exactly based locally to 90% of the UK stations so callout times can vary putting pressure on the TOC to fix it rather than hold their crew at a station for 2 hours until the BTP arrive.

 

[nanstallon]

I will happily be forced off a train by an officer, because I've then got an authority figure stood in front of me with a direct line the TOCs control room. I wouldn't do enough to be arrested and as I said the BTP aren't exactly based locally to 90% of the UK stations so callout times can vary putting pressure on the TOC to fix it rather than hold their crew at a station for 2 hours until the BTP arrive.

You don't have to do much to get arrested by police these days, handcuffs and all.

 

[SimplyLlama]

Silly question maybe, but where did the train go off to? Couldn’t it have taken the passengers, so that their onward transport could have been arranged at the depot? I know that’s not the usual way but being left at a deserted station late at night isn’t acceptable.

If it did to go Salisbury, there is a side entrance onto Windsor road although it would be a pain for the train to have to be detrained at the depot and take everybody out into Salisbury but arguably it would better than leaving many passengers at Yeovil but Salisbury could have been full, realtime trains would have given the information on where it went from Yeovil at the time.

 

[Bevan Price]

At the very least, I think the person(s) responsible for terminating the train in this manner is in urgent need of a training course in the basics of customer care.

Whilst the vast majority of rail staff are decent, hard-working people who try to be helpful, their reputation is spoiled by a minority who are arrogant, think they are "god-like", and care sod-all about inconvenienced passengers.

 

[matt_world2004]

If the initial response as quoted in the article from swr customer service that a 16 year old should not be travelling on the train if they cannot book a hotel is accurate that's disgusting.

 

[nanstallon]

If the initial response as quoted in the article from swr customer service that a 16 year old should not be travelling on the train if they cannot book a hotel is accurate that's disgusting.

Blame the victim!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2021 ==

At the very least, I think the person(s) responsible for terminating the train in this manner is in urgent need of a training course in the basics of customer care.

Whilst the vast majority of rail staff are decent, hard-working people who try to be helpful, their reputation is spoiled by a minority who are arrogant, think they are "god-like", and care sod-all about inconvenienced passengers.

Too true. There needs to be a re-balancing of the relationship between staff and customers. Railways are supposed to be for the benefit of the country; not the other way around!

 

[robbeech]

The "extreme" I'm complaining about is actually the generalising going on that seems to lump all railway staff into one category of "can't care, won't care" - something that is happening here with an alarming increase in frequency.

I’m afraid it is much easier and safer to assume railway staff will have insufficient knowledge and will not do everything in their power to ensure passengers get to their destination safely. That way people are prepared to be let down. This is NOT lumping them all together which I agree is a poor way to go about things. I simply will not trust the railway to get me to my destination at any time of day or night. It won’t stop me using it but I assess the risks for each journey. If there is somewhere I need to be and it’s absolutely vital I am there I take the car. We can argue til the cows come home that there can be traffic, or I could breakdown, and of course both of these are only a small percentage of potential road based delays but using previous experience of both methods (including over 300,000 miles of driving ) I know which IS the most reliable. Most (almost all) of the time you’ll get there with the train, even if delayed but I have had to spend hundreds of pounds of my own money to avoid a cold damp platform overnight on several occasions for me or people working for me and the frequency of which this happens is going up disproportionately to the number of delays (although there isn’t huge amounts of data as it is rare).
I’m sad to have to say that anyone who goes out without the means to pay to get home some other way or pay to stay overnight, instead relying solely on the railway who are contractually obliged to get you home is taking a huge risk, a risk that gets bigger all the time as regulation becomes a more distant memory.
Your ticket has considerably less value than it used to have.

If the initial response as quoted in the article from swr customer service that a 16 year old should not be travelling on the train if they cannot book a hotel is accurate that's disgusting.

The railway will do everything to avoid taking responsibility for its actions. Were it not for this news story it’s unlikely the passengers would have got anything back except for possibly delay repay but it’s questionable whether there would need to be a fight for that.

 

[johnnychips]

@robbeech, can you give us an example of how you have been inconvenienced? This is a genuine, not sarcastic, question.

 

[robbeech]

@robbeech , can you give us an example of how you have been inconvenienced? This is a genuine, not sarcastic question.

With what specifically?