Scotrail service not allowed to sit in "vestibule"?

[Deltic1961]

Went for the 16:26 Aberdeen to Inverurie service. Struggling to get to the carraige due to mobility issues which as usual was parked quite a distance from the barriers. Conductor barked at me "you'd better hurry up as you're going to miss the train" so I got on at the end of a class 158. Sat down in the corridor beside the doors at the end of the carraige as I have done many times before then he told me "you can't sit there, it's the vestibule. You have to sit in the cabin". Only issue is that there were no spare seats in the cabin so I ended up standing in the next vestibule between both carraiges.

I've seen a few jobsworths in my time but I'm still struggling to think of a single reason that could stop me sitting in the fold down seat I've sat in hundreds of tmes before with no issues whatsoever?

Any ideas?

 

[skyhigh]

I've seen a few jobsworths in my time but I'm still struggling to think of a single reason that could stop me sitting in the fold down seat I've sat in hundreds of tmes before with no issues whatsoever?

The vestibule on a 158 is quite a confined space and it could be that the guard wishes to have a safe space to work, especially now with a new variant about.

I'm not suggesting that's the right approach to take, but that's a potential reason.

 

[paul1609]

The vestibule on a 158 is quite a confined space and it could be that the guard wishes to have a safe space to work, especially now with a new variant about.

I'm not suggesting that's the right approach to take, but that's a potential reason.

All the tip up seats by the doors on 171s on Marshlink have stickers on saying not for public use. The conductors have to operate the doors in the saloon because of the door select system and the short platforms.

 

[lachlan]

Went for the 16:26 Aberdeen to Inverurie service. Struggling to get to the carraige due to mobility issues which as usual was parked quite a distance from the barriers. Conductor barked at me "you'd better hurry up as you're going to miss the train" so I got on at the end of a class 158. Sat down in the corridor beside the doors at the end of the carraige as I have done many times before then he told me "you can't sit there, it's the vestibule. You have to sit in the cabin". Only issue is that there were no spare seats in the cabin so I ended up standing in the next vestibule between both carraiges.

I've seen a few jobsworths in my time but I'm still struggling to think of a single reason that could stop me sitting in the fold down seat I've sat in hundreds of tmes before with no issues whatsoever?

Any ideas?

Platform 6N? Bit offtopic but I share your frustration with trains running past the empty 6S and stopping so far away from the ticket barriers! Would be really nice to have another set of barriers at that side of the station.

 

[Deltic1961]

Was 7N. Same issue. No idea why the trains are so far away when it's a totally empty platform. Sure they do it just to pee people off.

This is a photo from a couple of weeks ago. I've teweeted Scotrail about this several times but they won't reply.

 

[Donny_m]

I think if covid was the issue a simple

‘Hi mate with the pandemic n all I’d rather passengers sat in the main areas so Staff aren’t sharing a confined space with everyone hope you don’t mind’

would have sufficed and been fully understandable with passengers willing to ablige. Quoting made up policy to account for personal preference always leaves customers baffled and annoyed.

 

[Parallel]

Was 7N. Same issue. No idea why the trains are so far away when it's a totally empty platform. Sure they do it just to pee people off.

This is a photo from a couple of weeks ago. I've teweeted Scotrail about this several times but they won't reply.

Is this not just a case of if the trains are heading north, they'll generally stop at the north end of the platform? Similar happens (in the direction of travel) at Bristol Temple Meads, Cardiff Central, Reading etc.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Am I right in thinking that the vestibule in a Class 158 is not really ventilated (in terms of the air conditioning)? If that is the case it doesn't really match the expectations for social distancing, etc.

 

[Deltic1961]

No problem sitting in there when the train is packed though!

 

[AlterEgo]

All the tip up seats by the doors on 171s on Marshlink have stickers on saying not for public use. The conductors have to operate the doors in the saloon because of the door select system and the short platforms.

Still a ridiculous piece of theatre.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I've sat in the end vestibule fold down seats many times on EMR 158s before covid. Often actually chose these seats just to get away from crowded noisy main carriage seating. I can only presume that you were asked to move as a covid precaution/social distance issue.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Was 7N. Same issue. No idea why the trains are so far away when it's a totally empty platform. Sure they do it just to pee people off.

This is a photo from a couple of weeks ago. I've teweeted Scotrail about this several times but they won't reply.


View attachment 106940

Seen many situations with that in Edinburgh Waverley, with a Tweedbank or North Berwick service going off the very end of Platform 7. I think it's because of where the markers are placed.

 

[Egg Centric]

I have read on the 159s darn sarf they seal off the vestibule due to a paranoid fear that passengers will jump out/fall onto the ballast should the driver have to open the doors to use a signal post telephone, could this be a similar reason? Was it front or rear vestibule?

 

[Deltic1961]

Was rear, but as stated I've sat there many times before with no issues.

 

[John Bishop]

I have read on the 159s darn sarf they seal off the vestibule due to a paranoid fear that passengers will jump out/fall onto the ballast should the driver have to open the doors to use a signal post telephone, could this be a similar reason? Was it front or rear vestibule?

No, no such policy with Scotrail.

 

[swt_passenger]

I have read on the 159s darn sarf they seal off the vestibule due to a paranoid fear that passengers will jump out/fall onto the ballast should the driver have to open the doors to use a signal post telephone, could this be a similar reason? Was it front or rear vestibule?

Only SWT (now SWR), but both their 159s and 158s have the modifications which switch the vestibule behind the cab out of use for the reason you mention. But the risks assessed apparently included them running on a four track relatively high speed third rail DC mainline. The 442s had the same feature for the same reasons.

 

[John Bishop]

Was 7N. Same issue. No idea why the trains are so far away when it's a totally empty platform. Sure they do it just to pee people off.

This is a photo from a couple of weeks ago. I've teweeted Scotrail about this several times but they won't reply.


View attachment 106940

That’s not the normal stopping position for 7N. That unit has probably come in on the back of something from the north and been split off hence the position far up the platform. Where your stood is normally where the back of the unit is heading north. Doesn’t happen very often.

 

[Carlisle]

Only SWT (now SWR), but both their 159s and 158s have the modifications which switch the vestibule behind the cab out of use for the reason you mention. But the risks assessed apparently included them running on a four track relatively high speed third rail DC mainline. The 442s had the same feature for the same reasons.

That’s really just an extension of the age old process where drivers locked the vestibule saloon door immediately behind them on the old slammers

 

[Egg Centric]

Was rear, but as stated I've sat there many times before with no issues.

Ta. Maybe he just had his customer service training in a Strathclyde depot then

 

[adamello]

Am I right in thinking that the vestibule in a Class 158 is not really ventilated (in terms of the air conditioning)? If that is the case it doesn't really match the expectations for social distancing, etc.

You are correct in my experience of the SWR stock. I used to jump on one from Southampton Central for five mins just two stops down, almost always stood / sat in vestibule (with no guard concerns). Then one day decided to sit in the cabin for one reason or another and discovered that on this hot sweaty day, that the old trains were indeed air-con'd in the cabin!

 

[reb0118]

The rear vestibule area of the I58s were (& possibly will be again very shortly) the conductor's safe zone.

Some conductors enforced this & some didn't and I can understand why that would send out a mixed message.

At present there is no automatic safe working zone but if the train becomes too busy then the conductor can implement the safe working requirements & impose one. Again some conductors have a different conception of what constitutes busy.

Historically many "modern" DMUs had signage in the vestibules advising passengers that they must vacate the area when required to by the train crew.

 

[Deltic1961]

No bother, thanks for the reply. Was more his attitude that was the issue rather than the fact I couldn't sit there.

 

[fraser158]

Am I right in thinking that the vestibule in a Class 158 is not really ventilated (in terms of the air conditioning)? If that is the case it doesn't really match the expectations for social distancing, etc.

I think it’s probably better ventilated than the rest of the carriage because of gaps in the gangway. Especially on a 158.

 

[Chew Chew]

That’s not the normal stopping position for 7N. That unit has probably come in on the back of something from the north and been split off hence the position far up the platform. Where your stood is normally where the back of the unit is heading north. Doesn’t happen very often.

I travel into Aberdeen from Portlethen and there are plenty of times when the train stops there on 7N, likewise on 6N.

In the past I've contacted Scotrail to ask why the last southbound train starts from 7N when for a less mobile person coming from the main station it means a trip up in a lift, a walk over the bridge, down in another lift and then a walk down the platform. The response was basically "tough luck".

 

[Deltic1961]

I get that impesson too. If you question the staff at the Aberdeen barrier they are totally unhelpful. And that's on a good day.

 

[Chew Chew]

I get that impesson too. If you question the staff at the Aberdeen barrier they are totally unhelpful. And that's on a good day.

I find it very much depends on the individual.

The younger staff are fine but the older staff less so.

I do wonder if my card was marked for a while after Yorkie helped me put in a complaint to Scotrail after a staff member at Aberdeen took my ticket off me and made me buy another when my original was valid?

 

[LowLevel]

I think it’s probably better ventilated than the rest of the carriage because of gaps in the gangway. Especially on a 158.

Far from it. Cram more than a couple of people in and you soon know about it.

The tip up seats on the 158 fleet are only there to allow fiddling of the seat numbers. They're a pain in the arse. Especially when occupied by ignorant fools who don't move when people are trying to get on and off at the door they've plonked themselves at.

I've no objection to them being used when busy but I object to having to stick my backside in someone's face/whack them with my ticket machine when I need to operate the doors because they've chosen to sit there and don't want to move every couple of minutes.

I have also kicked people out of them in the past when I need to operate the doors and they've grouched about moving to allow me access and I make no apology for doing so.

However, I am always outwardly polite about it

 

[wobman]

Far from it. Cram more than a couple of people in and you soon know about it.

The tip up seats on the 158 fleet are only there to allow fiddling of the seat numbers. They're a pain in the arse. Especially when occupied by ignorant fools who don't move when people are trying to get on and off at the door they've plonked themselves at.

I've no objection to them being used when busy but I object to having to stick my backside in someone's face/whack them with my ticket machine when I need to operate the doors because they've chosen to sit there and don't want to move every couple of minutes.

I have also kicked people out of them in the past when I need to operate the doors and they've grouched about moving to allow me access and I make no apology for doing so.

However, I am always outwardly polite about it

Imagine trying to do your job unobstructed and getting grief for doing so, I see it on a daily basis on the railways. Even after you explain the reason why, some people just don't believe you I've found.

From a drivers perspective on a 158 I find trying to keep the cab door access area free very problematic indeed at busy time, especially people with bikes or luggage !

 

[CharlieSpotted]

It sounds like, as is so often the case, that the problem wasn't so much that you couldn't be there but the way in which that was communicated. Some (not all, of course) people on the railway have such a poor way of communicating with passengers that you wonder how on earth they ever ended up in a customer facing role.

Reminds me of a similar experience several years ago (and hence pre covid) where I jumped on a packed (of course!) CrossCountry Voyager at New Street to take me to Wolves. To avoid the overcrowding I went as far along the platform as I could and jumped on a slightly quieter vestibule end, as I had done many times before. Only to be confronted with the growling response "Can't stand there mate!". When I asked why, the almost-predictable response was "Health and Safety, now move". I moved into the carriage, along with the dozens of people standing including crammed into the luggage racks, just the other side of the vestibule doors, safe in the knowledge that this, surely, was much safer...

 

[Rob Gibson]

It sounds like, as is so often the case, that the problem wasn't so much that you couldn't be there but the way in which that was communicated. Some (not all, of course) people on the railway have such a poor way of communicating with passengers that you wonder how on earth they ever ended up in a customer facing role.

Reminds me of a similar experience several years ago (and hence pre covid) where I jumped on a packed (of course!) CrossCountry Voyager at New Street to take me to Wolves. To avoid the overcrowding I went as far along the platform as I could and jumped on a slightly quieter vestibule end, as I had done many times before. Only to be confronted with the growling response "Can't stand there mate!". When I asked why, the almost-predictable response was "Health and Safety, now move". I moved into the carriage, along with the dozens of people standing including crammed into the luggage racks, just the other side of the vestibule doors, safe in the knowledge that this, surely, was much safer...

They may have started out keen and pleasant but years of dealing with rude and uncaring passengers has made them bitter and cynical. They may feel they get the same amount of abuse as someone who does the bare minimum so why bother.