Trains told to get rid of torrent of 'Tannoy spam'

[tommy2215]

Reducing auto announcements has been pledged time and time again by the DfT and right now we have more announcements than ever. Likely this review, if it happens at all, will come to nothing.

 

[akm]

I'm disappointed that the forum has not yet managed an Alan Partridge-esque comment on the use of the word "Tannoy"

 

[Cdd89]

It's a key piece of reassurance to occasional passengers, and is probably the announcement of the highest value other than the end destination.

The vast majority of passengers can look at the screens if they want this information.

I fully agree that visually or literacy impaired passengers should be given the information too, but a balance needs to be struck between this, and not blighting the journeys of everyone on the train.

Giving the full destination list audibly on the platform, and the final destination/via point and next stop on the train itself, seems like a reasonable compromise to me. (Though final destinations are obviously less useful on loop lines).

 

[Falcon1200]

Can they please get rid of the "please take care on the stairs" announcements. I don't see who those can possibly benefit, apart from insurers

At Oxford they also tell you to use the handrails - Post-Covid, not a chance !

 

[AM9]

Yes please! I don’t need to be told “This is an Avanti West Coast service to London Euston” 5 times before leaving Manchester Piccadilly.

That's because those who didn't hear it the first time probably weren't on the train yet. The fix for that is to unlock the doors just before leaving ans play the announcement just before closing them, i.e. have the same dwell limit as an en route stop. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Superb to see the Government are dealing with the “People’s Priorities” with zeal and full focus.

It’s not like there‘s an energy costs crisis, allegations of blackmail in the Commons, cost of living crisis, hefty fare rises, supply chain issues, massive queues outside Dover, etc. etc.

I salute our overlords for keeping the eye on the ball and sorting out the most important thing first.

 

[swt_passenger]

“Trains told” - I suppose the BBC must think trains can receive as well as transmit…

 

[AM9]

For me it's listing every single stop after each station . On an IET leaving Penzance for Paddington, you get all 15 stops (or however many it is) listed every few minutes whilst the train makes its way through Cornwall. How many people really need to hear this over and over?

No you don't. take the next train today, the 12:15 to Paddington. It stops at 15 stations plaus it's ultimate destination Paddinghton. By the time the trains exits Cornwall and stops at Plymouth the announcement is for 6 stops plus Paddington. At Exeter it is only three plus Pad.
The other issue is that sometimes, stops can be added or additional stops are made. How does a blind person get to know that? Remember that each station may have passengers boarding who didn't hear whatever was announced at Penzance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other issue is that sometimes, stops can be added or additional stops are made. How does a blind person get to know that? Remember that each station may have passengers boarding who didn't hear whatever was announced at Penzance.

"This is an InterCity GW1 service via Plymouth to London Paddington. This train will call additionally at Dawlish Warren today."

or

"This is an InterCity GW1 service via Plymouth to London Paddington. This train will not call at Exeter St. David's today. This is due to a fire evacuation. Passengers for Exeter St. David's should leave the train at X for alternative transport."

It does require a consistent Takt to work, though.

 

[Welly]

I "love" the auto-Tannoy-spam announcement, "If you see anything suspicious, please report it to a member of the station staff" being played at a station that was unstaffed for over 50 years!

 

[31160]

Superb to see the Government are dealing with the “People’s Priorities” with zeal and full focus.

It’s not like there‘s an energy costs crisis, allegations of blackmail in the Commons, cost of living crisis, hefty fare rises, supply chain issues, massive queues outside Dover, etc. etc.

I salute our overlords for keeping the eye on the ball and sorting out the most important thing first.

You should be a MP sir

 

[Western Sunset]

They'll probably have a new announcement saying they're going to reduce announcements...

 

[Kite159]

Shame it won't include the Welsh trains with the minute long 'safety' messages played after every station. First in Welsh then in English. Add on the bonus of a generic security announcement about keeping your luggage with you at all times after every few stops.

I was on a Coryton service in October and the announcements were nonstop due to the short gaps between stations on that line!

 

[Western Sunset]

See it
Say it
Sort it
Shove it

 

[Lewlew]

See it
Say it
Sort it
Shove it

That's proof that the message is useless. The third phrase is "Sorted"

 

[Western Sunset]

I know, but I wanted to have a certain symmetry to the post...

 

[nr758123]

Excellent response from the leader of Leeds City Council, Cllr James Lewis https://twitter.com/JamesLewisLab/status/1484472461995483138

Given Leeds - Manchester electrification has been ‘announced’ in 2011, 2015, 2018 and 2021 but not expected until the early 2030s I know how frustrating banal railway announcements can be …

 

[dm1]

Whilst I agree that there are far bigger problems on the railways and the country at the moment, I do think too many announcements are a real problem.

I think SBB's solution to accessiblity is quite elegant. There is an app called SBB Inclusive. It works using GPS and bluetooth beacons and duplicates all information on station platform screens and on the trains themselves. This includes train type, destination, next station information and stopping patterns, as well as information about accessiblity of the trains and stations. It can also send notifications for each announcement on a train.

It is designed to be compatible with screen readers and other smartphone accessiblity features, meaning it is much more accessible and inclusive to everyone, whilst inconveniencing and annoying other passengers far less.

That way, you can reduce other announcements to the absolute minimum - next station and destination only. Of course the Takt helps as well, but announcing the next ~40 stations after every stop, as I recently had to experience on Thameslink is ridiculous and unnecessary.

This isn't just about passenger comfort either. There are passengers for whom constant announcements make using the railways much more difficult, such as those with autism or hearing issues as described above. Adding more announcements does not always improve accessbility or safety, and can make it worse.

We could broaden the discussion further, about some of the operational practices which lead to the need for so many announcements in the first place. Platform allocations at termini would be a prime example. If level boarding were a thing, then all the "Mind the gap" announcements wouldn't be needed either...

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's proof that the message is useless. The third phrase is "Sorted"

I sort of quite like the way ever-a-bit-posh Chiltern have gentrified it to "If you see it, say it and we'll sort it". Can't have incomplete sentences and chavvy terms like "sorted, innit" in leafy Buckinghamshire!

 

[Deepgreen]

Superb to see the Government are dealing with the “People’s Priorities” with zeal and full focus.

It’s not like there‘s an energy costs crisis, allegations of blackmail in the Commons, cost of living crisis, hefty fare rises, supply chain issues, massive queues outside Dover, etc. etc.

I salute our overlords for keeping the eye on the ball and sorting out the most important thing first

So anything to with details of day-to-day issues should be abandoned? Do you really think that things like this deflect what little attention the government has away from other things? It's an issue that has been alive for years and needs to be tackled. As for the government's current state - 'see it, say it - sordid'!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was amused to see two stories on the BBC News homepage this morning both pertaining to public address systems on board trains...

One was this story. The other was an apparent incident on SWR where something inappropriate was played over the PA system on board a train!

 

[Deepgreen]

I sort of quite like the way ever-a-bit-posh Chiltern have gentrified it to "If you see it, say it and we'll sort it". Can't have incomplete sentences and chavvy terms like "sorted, innit" in leafy Buckinghamshire!

'If you observe it, ask your butler to report it and we will resolve the matter'.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2022 ==

There are options for the message - in icy weather; 'see it, say it, salt it', and so on.

 

[tbtc]

Superb to see the Government are dealing with the “People’s Priorities” with zeal and full focus.

It’s not like there‘s an energy costs crisis, allegations of blackmail in the Commons, cost of living crisis, hefty fare rises, supply chain issues, massive queues outside Dover, etc. etc.

I salute our overlords for keeping the eye on the ball and sorting out the most important thing first.

I was coming on here to mention the Dover queues - Shapps is a canny operator who knows how to divert media attention - and announcements is a great bugbear of a lot of people, I'm sure there are a few local radio stations where today's phone in topic is the proliferation of announcements - he seems to have done a good job in re-announcing this yet again, even though it doesn't seem that much has changed since last time (in fact, given the "tactile" announcements about paving, things have got worse in the eyes of many people?)

I wonder in fact whether Shapps has a diary with "re-announce Beeching reinstatements" and "pledge to reduce tannoy announcements" scheduled every few months to keep re-stirring these particular pots, as they are a wonderful distraction from things like the problems on motorways (lack of hard shoulders, insufficient lorry drivers meaning some have to work punishing shifts that affect tiredness, long queues to get to ferry ports now that we are "Third Country" in the eyes of the EU etc)

I don't mind the announcements so much, because I appreciate that there's a cost to *not* having them. The quote generally attributed to the Easy Jet guy (Stelios) that "if you think Health & Safety is expensive, try an accident" feels appropriate here. Rightly or wrongly we live in a country where the cost of someone slipping down a stairwell or tripping on a pavement can cost organisations several thousand pounds even if they don't end up in court. So by having some "warnings", you can show that appropriate messages were made, in the way that a coffee cup will have a disclaimer printed to remind you that the contents may be hot - it's a bit dumbed down but the alternative is someone claiming that they were an innocent party carrying a hot cup of coffee down a slippery staircase before their accident. If you feel that there's not enough personal responsibility for such matters then, fine, but that's something that you need to raise with politicians (like Shapps!) - the railways are just trying to cope with the legislation and the cost of something going wrong.

Just wait until something goes wrong and you'll see the headlines asking "WHY WASN'T SOMETHING DONE" - e.g. the terror threat seems pretty low right now, there aren't bombs being left at train stations, but the minute that there is one that causes devastation you know that there'll be handwringing articles complaining that we should have "done something". So, whilst the "see it..." announcements are a pain, I think that the bigger problem is the culture that the railway has to operate in, whereby it's very risk averse because it knows that it'll be blamed for anything that goes wrong on railway property (whilst a car crash can kill several people but be entirely the fault of the driver with nobody blaming the Highways Agency etc). "Hate the game not the player", as I understand young people say.

It's a bit of an odd topic, in that so many people on here seem to be quite blasé about the need for warnings, yet are very safety focussed on other railway matters, wanting everything to be As Safe As Reasonable Possible (But Not If It Means Temporarily Interrupting My Quiet Journey). People on here can empathise with all sorts of tiny groups of people (someone was recently worrying about the number of people travelling from Llandridnod Wells to Manchester/ Liverpool who'd be inconvenienced by cuts to the Heart Of Wales), but I guess most people on here are very experienced travellers who've forgotten how bewildering things are for occasional passengers who'd value things like knowing that the train was scheduled to stop at their distant station.

Tricky balance, because it's got to be the same announcements for everyone, and there are going to be a lot of intermediate stops at which things need to be repeated (whilst, on planes, there only needs to be one "safety demonstration" at the start of the flight)

I doubt much will change in the next couple of years, I doubt that Shapps expects much to change, he's just regurgitating an old announcement about announcements because it's a cheap way of getting some good publicity "Government Cracks Down On Minor Irritant" (and hopes that you don't notice that there are much bigger problems that he isn't so focussed on, showing either the limitations of what Government can actually achieve or that Government isn't even bothering to pretend that they can fix the bigger stuff, but here's a repeat of something that they throw out every few months to appease their voters, much like constraining the BBC and sending refugees to "camps" far from the UK.. the sad thing is that this works for them and I've taken the bait and joined in the conversation, I know, I know...

(oh, and the "Takt" stuff feels like a distraction here, given that there are so many different calling patterns on long distance services, e.g. Edinburgh to Plymouth looks like a simple hourly service - call it "XC1" but then do you need to have variations for the Aberdeen/ Glasgow/ Newquay/ Paignton/ Penzance extensions, the services later in the day that terminate part route, the stations that don't get a call every hour like Dunbar/ Berwick/ Alrmouth/ Chesterfield/ Burton/ Tamworth... it works fine on "metro" networks where there's a simple route and everything calls everywhere, but trying to impose it onto longer distance trains would cause more confusion than it's worth)

 

[Bletchleyite]

(oh, and the "Takt" stuff feels like a distraction here, given that there are so many different calling patterns on long distance services, e.g. Edinburgh to Plymouth looks like a simple hourly service - call it "XC1" but then do you need to have variations for the Aberdeen/ Glasgow/ Newquay/ Paignton/ Penzance extensions, the services later in the day that terminate part route, the stations that don't get a call every hour like Dunbar/ Berwick/ Alrmouth/ Chesterfield/ Burton/ Tamworth... it works fine on "metro" networks where there's a simple route and everything calls everywhere, but trying to impose it onto longer distance trains would cause more confusion than it's worth)

I didn't intend to start a debate on Takt in this thread as it's an entire other subject - it was more to point out that you can only dispense with "calling at" without confusing people if it is always the same, e.g. Merseyrail (yes, I know, Capenhurst).

 

[greyman42]

I think it's gotten worse now. Only in the past year or so I have noticed the 'this station does not have tactile paving' announcement. I know why it exists but it's still annoying as heck.

Yes, it is repeated constantly at York.

 

[fgwrich]

Travelling back from Clapham Junction on SWR a few weekends ago, the PA system ran out all the stops for the service (correct), then after woking ran out as many announcements as possible until Winchester - Oyster cards, See It etc, RPI's work this train, Guard's work through this train, please remove luggage etc. So I can fully appreciate the sentiment here about removing unnecessary and irritating announcements!

 

[pdeaves]

and announcements is a great bugbear of a lot of people, ...
... - he seems to have done a good job in re-announcing this yet again

Anyone else spot the inadvertent humour here? Announcements are annoying, so let's announce something!

 

[AM9]

I sort of quite like the way ever-a-bit-posh Chiltern have gentrified it to "If you see it, say it and we'll sort it". Can't have incomplete sentences and chavvy terms like "sorted, innit" in leafy Buckinghamshire!

Does it change to the standard version north of Olton and south of South Ruislip?

 

[Deepgreen]

C2C (perhaps) has 'seen it, maffed off, saw'id'.

 

[AM9]

C2C (perhaps) has 'seen it, maffed off, saw'id'.

Maybe there's a case for localising the message. Just imagine a geordie version, changing of course when crossing the Wear.