No 10 rule breaking gatherings during 2020.

[Cdd89]

It must be horrible being Sue Grey. Imagine all the ”can’t you just give us a clue!?” questions when friends visit, and all the “old friends” conveniently getting in touch for a “catch up”.

 

[GusB]

It must be horrible being Sue Grey. Imagine all the ”can’t you just give us a clue!?” questions when friends visit, and all the “old friends” conveniently getting in touch for a “catch up”.

Oh, I don't know - she's potentially sitting on a best-seller!

 

[D6130]

Oh, I don't know - she's potentially sitting on a best-seller!

....but will she be constrained by the Official Secrets Act?

 

[greyman42]

Oh, I don't know - she's potentially sitting on a best-seller!

I would not waste my money on Downing Street tittle-tattle.

 

[bramling]

Sue Gray has been stitched up like a kipper by a combination of Boris Johnson, Cressida Dick, the Cabinet Office, probably Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all. The puzzlement in Jonathan Sumption's expression on Newsnight last night when the latest developments were being discussed was a sight to behold. Diane Abbott proved she can cut to the chase when she puts her mind to it too, and even Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown spoke some sense for a change.They all agreed there is absolutely no reason why Sue Gray should be prevented from producing the report she wants, and it being published in full with no redactions. The only possible reason not to do this, from a legal point of view, would be if potential jurors in a forthcoming by criminal trial could be 'prejudiced' by the report/evidence, and we know from the Met's own statements that only coronavirus breaches are being looked at, so no jury trial!

If Sue Gray doesn't take 'early retirement', or whatever form of weasel words are stitched together, after this then I'm the Prime Minister.

I think what is going in is Johnson is buying time.

There’s a couple of benefits served by that:

* hope the story fizzles out - perhaps becoming overshadowed by other news, not least Ukraine, cost of living, etc

* ALLOWS TIME TO BUY OFF MORE AND MORE BACKBENCHERS

* shift the focus of the story from Johnson towards the Met Police

I’d say the second of those in particular could prove quite valuable to Johnson.

The report will come out, it will be comparatively factual (a bit like the Cummings garden statement about Barnard Castle), a couple of staff will be thrown under the bus, Johnson will declare “matter closed”, and off we go until the next Johnson car-crash.

If Labour had a heavyweight like Blair at the helm then they would pursue the lies to Parliament aspect, which for me is the biggest issue, but Starmer is too bull-in-china-shop to capitalise on it.

We might have to wait till the local elections, where I predict the Lib Dems will do well. Much as I’m not keen on them, and don’t particularly like the idea of falling into the “Lib Dem protest vote” fallacy, I have a feeling that’s where my vote may go just this once.

There is of course the possibility that people will see through all this, and it could backfire against Johnson, with people instead deciding “enough’s enough”. I guess we’ll know next week, if indeed he doesn’t find another way to delay the report.

 

[brad465]

I think what is going in is Johnson is buying time.

There’s a couple of benefits served by that:

* hope the story fizzles out - perhaps becoming overshadowed by other news, not least Ukraine, cost of living, etc

* ALLOWS TIME TO BUY OFF MORE AND MORE BACKBENCHERS

* shift the focus of the story from Johnson towards the Met Police

I’d say the second of those in particular could prove quite valuable to Johnson.

The Met have been suspected by many of those opposed to Johnson, and the Tories generally, of bowing to the latter long before partygate emerged. What this row has done is not only confirm that, but allowed a far wider audience to come to the conclusion. Even die-hard Tory MP Christopher Chope said earlier that he didn't like what the Met were up to.

The report will come out, it will be comparatively factual (a bit like the Cummings garden statement about Barnard Castle), a couple of staff will be thrown under the bus, Johnson will declare “matter closed”, and off we go until the next Johnson car-crash.

If Labour had a heavyweight like Blair at the helm then they would pursue the lies to Parliament aspect, which for me is the biggest issue, but Starmer is too bull-in-china-shop to capitalise on it.

We might have to wait till the local elections, where I predict the Lib Dems will do well. Much as I’m not keen on them, and don’t particularly like the idea of falling into the “Lib Dem protest vote” fallacy, I have a feeling that’s where my vote may go just this once.

There is of course the possibility that people will see through all this, and it could backfire against Johnson, with people instead deciding “enough’s enough”. I guess we’ll know next week, if indeed he doesn’t find another way to delay the report.

Starmer has pursued the lying to Parliament regularly in PMQs, but the issue with him lies in trying to push it even harder and/or more widely, such as in TV interviews. What also doesn't help is how Johnson has some cunning ability to trash every code/institution and somehow get away with it, including lying to Parliament without having to resign, and allowing his ****-licking Cabinet to break the ministerial code many times and not force them to resign. Some of this is beyond the control of any opposition, especially when the mainstream media either bat for Johnson and/or just don't care (because celebrity gossip and whatnot is more interesting to read). A constitution (or lack of) based on good morals doesn't work anymore.

Once Johnson is gone, he will be viewed very negatively, every bad leader always is in hindsight. We just have to hope his departure doesn't involve a bunch of conspiracy theorists and white supremacists charging their way into Downing Street to try and restrain those trying to make him physically leave No.10.

In terms of who to vote for in the local elections if in protest at the current lot, I'd recommend looking up whichever party is in your council ward/seat and if they're not Conservative, vote for the incumbent, but if they are, vote for the best challenger. That might be the Lib Dems, it might be someone else, but if the Lib Dems were 3rd or 4th in the seat, and voting patterns don't swing heavily towards them generally, then all voting Lib Dem does is enable a Tory incumbent even more, and who wants to vote for someone they not only don't really want, but doesn't make an iota of difference anyway.

 

[21C101]

Are the Met a disinterested party on this. There is a six month statute of limitation on coronavirus offences. However there is an exemption allowing up to three years if the matter had not come to the polices attention (intended for situations like someone uploading a year old lockdown party footage to Youtube).

Thing is, 10 Downing Street is riddled with police officers. Personal Protection and the like. So it might be difficult to claim it didn't come to their attention at the time.

Worse, if the Gray report mentions any of them or posts photos of them suggesting or proving they were aware of said illicit event and did not think it necessary to report it at the time, then such officers (and the Met) could be in big trouble.

It is rarely wise to bring the law enforcement agencies into day to day political matters. It usually backfires.

 

[island]

The time limit for prosecuting Coronavirus offences is 3 years.

Coronavirus: Criminal penalties - Liberty

www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk

That is not the same as issuing fixed penalty notices.

 

[brad465]

Senior Tories are now demanding the report be published in full, including Christopher Chope, Tobias Elwood and Adam Holloway. Meanwhile Tom Tugendhat has become the first party MP to publicly say they were considering going for the leadership when available:

Downing Street parties: Senior Tories demand full Sue Gray report

One MP accuses the police of an "abuse of power", amid concerns crucial findings will be left out.

www.bbc.co.uk

Senior Tories have joined opposition MPs in demanding the report on No 10 lockdown parties be published in full.
MP Sir Christopher Chope accused the Met Police of an "abuse of power", amid concerns senior civil servant Sue Gray will leave out crucial findings.
Doubts over how complete the report will be came after the Met asked her to make "minimal reference" to events they are looking at.
A version of the report is yet to be handed to Downing Street.
While no exact timeframe for the report's submission has been given, Ms Gray is expected to submit her report before the Met finishes its investigations.
The force is investigating alleged parties and gatherings at Downing Street and other locations in Whitehall during coronavirus restrictions, and has received evidence from Ms Gray's team.
No 10 has pledged to publish Ms Gray's report "as they receive it".

Sir Christopher, the Conservative MP for Christchurch, accused the police of interfering with Ms Gray's investigation.
"They're not right [to ask for changes] this is not sub judice," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme, referring to active legal proceedings that prohibit public discussion.
"If they had brought charges about individuals... then it would obviously be sub judice.
"That's why I think this is an abuse of power by the Metropolitan Police."

Senior Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood, who has been critical of the prime minister's handling of the issue, also warned that any redacted or watered down report would not "go down well with colleagues" and the public wanted to see the government was on the "road to change".
Another Tory MP Adam Holloway, who said he backs Boris Johnson but is willing to "run with" Ms Gray's findings, told Today: "If I was Boris I would be really quite desperate for the truth to get out."
It followed calls from Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Scottish National Party for the report to be published without omissions.
Lord Morris of Aberavon, a former attorney general under ex-Labour PM Tony Blair, said he was dismayed with the police, telling the BBC: "Any prejudice which might result in fines would be a disproportionate concern."
But criminal barrister Matthew Scott, from Pump Court Chambers, said: "Given that they are investigating possible criminal offences I think they are absolutely right to do what they have done and ask.
"They have no power to enforce, but they can ask and they have done, that the relevant parts of the report not be made public before they have completed their inquiry."

'Proportionately'​

In a statement on Friday night, the Met defended its request for the Cabinet Office to minimise reference to certain events in Ms Gray's report as being fair to those subject to investigation.
Commander Catherine Roper, who leads the Met's Central Specialist Crime Command, added: "This will only be necessary until these matters are concluded, and is to give detectives the most reliable picture of what happened at these events.
"We intend to complete our investigations promptly, fairly and proportionately.
"We have not delayed this report and the timing of its release is a matter for the Cabinet Office inquiry team."
Commander Roper said the offences under investigation would normally be dealt with by fixed penalty notice.
During the pandemic, fixed penalty notices ordered people to either pay a penalty - between £200 and £10,000 - or opt to face a criminal prosecution, usually at magistrate's court, for alleged breaches of Covid regulations.
Mr Johnson has said he welcomes the Met investigation and that it will "give the public the clarity it needs" over the allegations.
His spokesman said the prime minister did not believe he had broken the law.
At least 13 separate events are reported to have taken place at Downing Street or other buildings in Westminster when London, or the UK, were under tough restrictions.
Meanwhile, senior Conservative MP Tom Tugendhat has become the first MP to publicly say he would consider running for Tory leader if a contest was triggered.
Mr Tugendhat, who chairs Parliament's foreign affairs select committee, told Times Radio "it's up to all of us to put ourselves forward" but he added there was "not a vacancy at the moment" and said he had not been canvassing support.

 

[nw1]

While I don't like the man, it is of note that Chope is a right-winger and Brexiter so it's quite something for him to be going for Johnson, given that Johnson gave him what he wanted. Also Christchurch is a safe seat so unlikely to change hands if Labour get into power, so he's unlikely to feel threatened.

 

[21C101]

Mr Hitchens column worth quoting again. My Bold.

Worth remember that he is normally an excoriating critic of Alexander "Boris" Johnson.

Now at last we can see what the whole shutdown frenzy has really been about. The BBC last week interviewed the Chief Commissar of the Welsh People's Republic (I think this is his title), Mark Drakeford.

They asked him about the sharp difference between Welsh Covid policy and England's currently more relaxed view under Johnson.

He replied: 'In Wales we still have a greater attachment to collective ways of doing things... We don't have the same attraction that you see Conservative politicians having for that sense of individual freedom trumping everything else.'

I thought this was pretty remarkable language – but that might be because I am a teeny bit prejudiced against zealots like Mr Drakeford.

Yet it wasn't just me. The broadly Left-wing and pro-lockdown commentator Janice Turner said of the outburst (for such it was): 'What struck me was the way he spat out 'individual freedom' – like the very concept was unconscionable, even repellent. The pandemic's political axis is hardening.'

How right she is. I have seen this from the start as part of a decisive and possibly final battle between collective authoritarianism and freedom under the law. And the current attempt to overthrow Johnson is a key part of that battle. His enemies are also the enemies of freedom as we have known it.

All these things run together – the sour restriction of free speech at universities, the cancellation of authors for breaking rules they didn't even know existed, the growing police involvement in patrolling the boundaries of speech (I'll come to the police), the use of the law to bludgeon the law-abiding rather than punish the wrongdoer.

It's been seething just beneath the surface of our national life for years now. But in March 2020 it went nuclear.

And Johnson's belated decision to prefer common sense to collective bossing and nosey-parker regulation has badly scared the Covid Hezbollah.


If he gets away with this, their whole achievement – getting the country to give away real freedom in return for an illusion of safety – will crumble.

Mail Online - Peter Hitchens blog

 

[John Luxton]

Mr Hitchens column worth quoting again. My Bold.

Worth remember that he is normally an excoriating critic of Alexander "Boris" Johnson.

Mail Online - Peter Hitchens blog

Read this earlier on the Mail web site.

As someone who has been a big critic of Boris and was hoping for his demise in recent months - now I am not so sure and Hitchens certainly hits the nail on the head with this article.

Personally I am getting to the point of giving BoJo one more chance providing he doesn't lose is bottle when the next "Scariant" appears.

I would cut him even more slack if he would bin the current green agenda for a more realistic energy policy as I think that once Covid recedes energy strategy will become the next big issue.

 

[21C101]

Read this earlier on the Mail web site.

As someone who has been a big critic of Boris and was hoping for his demise in recent months - now I am not so sure and Hitchens certainly hits the nail on the head with this article.

Personally I am getting to the point of giving BoJo one more chance providing he doesn't lose is bottle when the next "Scariant" appears.

I would cut him even more slack if he would bin the current green agenda for a more realistic energy policy as I think that once Covid recedes energy strategy will become the next big issue.

I'm wondering how much of his previous stances was down to his previous wife. Certianly Nut Nut seems a very poor influence.

I agree on the green issues, but suspect and fesr that if he is deposed, whoever replaces him will be a green, remainer, authoritarian locktivist wet, suported by the people who suuport the likes of May and Tugendhat. For now I think it is better to hold on to nurse for fear of something worse.

And even if a better candidate succeeds him, it would be very dangerous for his pro lockdown enemies to succeed in getting rid of him. They need to be discredited and be seen to be discredited.

 

[brad465]

Read this earlier on the Mail web site.

As someone who has been a big critic of Boris and was hoping for his demise in recent months - now I am not so sure and Hitchens certainly hits the nail on the head with this article.

Personally I am getting to the point of giving BoJo one more chance providing he doesn't lose is bottle when the next "Scariant" appears.

I would cut him even more slack if he would bin the current green agenda for a more realistic energy policy as I think that once Covid recedes energy strategy will become the next big issue.

I suspect partygate has actually helped prevent more serious restrictions, as backbenchers against them have capitalised on his weakened authority to get their way. Johnson needs to be deposed in the eyes of his party, but so they can put all the blame on him and give his successor a clean slate. Right now is too early, but later this year, once the cost of living has run deeper, would be more likely.

On the green issues I'm afraid we need to change our energy supply, even without climate change, a combination of nuclear and renewables is essential to stop being so beholden to Russia and the Middle East for energy.

 

[21C101]

On the green issues I'm afraid we need to change our energy supply, even without climate change, a combination of nuclear and renewables is essential to stop being so beholden to Russia and the Middle East for energy.

I agree that there is a strategic case for renewables due to gas security of supply issues. However we have plenty of coal left in the UK and renewables are not the large scale answer until a way of cheap mass storage of electricity to fill the gaps when the wind isn't blowing and stops renewable power sources having to be 100% duplicated.

 

[greyman42]

Some of this is beyond the control of any opposition, especially when the mainstream media either bat for Johnson and/or just don't care (because celebrity gossip and whatnot is more interesting to read). A constitution (or lack of) based on good morals doesn't work anymore.

I would say that BBC News are obsessed with Johnson and the "parties".
There are more important things going on at home and further afield.

 

[brad465]

I would say that BBC News are obsessed with Johnson and the "parties".
There are more important things going on at home and further afield.

Are you writing in complaints to the BBC? Are you not watching their shows and/or avoiding their website? If you are then fair enough, but if not then until you do you're complicit in them reporting in such a way.

What is also not helping is the recent interventions and delaying tactics of releasing the report, these in themselves are creating more headlines and dragging it all on.

 

[bramling]

I suspect partygate has actually helped prevent more serious restrictions, as backbenchers against them have capitalised on his weakened authority to get their way. Johnson needs to be deposed in the eyes of his party, but so they can put all the blame on him and give his successor a clean slate. Right now is too early, but later this year, once the cost of living has run deeper, would be more likely.

On the green issues I'm afraid we need to change our energy supply, even without climate change, a combination of nuclear and renewables is essential to stop being so beholden to Russia and the Middle East for energy.

I suspect partygate has actually helped prevent more serious restrictions, as backbenchers against them have capitalised on his weakened authority to get their way. Johnson needs to be deposed in the eyes of his party, but so they can put all the blame on him and give his successor a clean slate. Right now is too early, but later this year, once the cost of living has run deeper, would be more likely.

On the green issues I'm afraid we need to change our energy supply, even without climate change, a combination of nuclear and renewables is essential to stop being so beholden to Russia and the Middle East for energy.

I can see the argument that the affair is being used by some to pursue an anti-Johnson objective.

However in my view it doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny.

Firstly, the idea that Johnson is somehow the protector of individual liberty is, I think, wide of the mark. Johnson hasn’t shown himself to be particularly strongly in favour of *any* particular position, beyond being afraid to make a positive decision, and doing whatever suits his own political posturing. The only reason we avoided restrictions this time round, I think, is because of the backbenchers. Likewise were Johnson to be replaced, like him or otherwise the odds-on replacement appears to be Sunak, so doubtful if this would lead to more restrictions based on what we know, if anything the opposite. Thirdly I think the public mood is likely to be against now in any case. Obviously there could be more risk were Gove to get the leadership.

Then we have the position that Labour remain in a dire state, and getting rid of Johnson doesn’t change this. Note that the recent by-elections were just as much a disaster for Labour as the Conservatives, if anything more as we’d normally be expecting the opposition to capitalise on an unpopular government, they actually made no headway at all.

The reason Johnson is in trouble is because Conservatives are increasingly seeing him as a liability. Polls are already showing potential seat losses, and it’s already happened at by-elections. Remember this all started with Johnson’s injudicious handling of Owen Paterson.

It may well be that the “left-wing conspiracy” is a narrative put out by Johnson to persuade people to give him one last chance. I’m not swayed by this, his history shows it won’t be long before another shambles which traces back to his poor judgement and arrogant attitude, and I think this is ultimately what the Conservative MPs will think too.

 

[david1212]

Read this earlier on the Mail web site.

As someone who has been a big critic of Boris and was hoping for his demise in recent months - now I am not so sure and Hitchens certainly hits the nail on the head with this article.

Personally I am getting to the point of giving BoJo one more chance providing he doesn't lose is bottle when the next "Scariant" appears.

I would cut him even more slack if he would bin the current green agenda for a more realistic energy policy as I think that once Covid recedes energy strategy will become the next big issue.

I suspect partygate has actually helped prevent more serious restrictions, as backbenchers against them have capitalised on his weakened authority to get their way. Johnson needs to be deposed in the eyes of his party, but so they can put all the blame on him and give his successor a clean slate. Right now is too early, but later this year, once the cost of living has run deeper, would be more likely.

On the green issues I'm afraid we need to change our energy supply, even without climate change, a combination of nuclear and renewables is essential to stop being so beholden to Russia and the Middle East for energy.

Compared with the other constituent countries of the ' United ' Kingdom and around the world the restrictions in England have been more lenient. Without so much pressure from SAGE and heath care bosses they may well have been even less restrictive. As to Partygate being a factor I'm not so sure. Rather I do think Bojo has realised the effect on business and the economy, the cost and maybe long term mental well-being too. Even if not announced by him I'm sure he doesn't want to be remembered as being a tory PM when taxation increased.

At the risk of being ' drawn over the coals ' by the Railforum mods I think long ago he understood that in most circumstances a m*sk lesser than FFP3 was of little benefit but again succumbed to pressure with m*sk regulations.

The difference in restrictions if Mrs May had still been PM or one of the other current front runners would be a debate for a different thread.

 

[Cowley]

At the risk of being ' drawn over the coals ' by the Railforum mods I think long ago he understood that in most circumstances a m*sk lesser than FFP3 was of little benefit but again succumbed to pressure with m*sk regulations.

You’ve trodden an impressively fine line there David and it’s much appreciated.

 

[nw1]

Mr Hitchens column worth quoting again. My Bold.

Worth remember that he is normally an excoriating critic of Alexander "Boris" Johnson.

Mail Online - Peter Hitchens blog

What these kind of arguments forget is how Johnson and co have:

a) introduced some over-the-top restrictions during lockdown (criminalising two people in a bubble having a takeaway coffee together outside in an isolated area, for example, which is hardly going to spread Covid; and making people feel guilty for even visiting the supermarket through that advertising campaign this time last year) and

b) restricted the freedom to move to and from EU countries to and from the UK easily.

It seems right-wing commentators use terms like "freedom" when it suits them, as a weapon to hit the left with - but the people they defend do not always actually believe in freedom and have implemented some pretty strong anti-freedom policies.

 

[dosxuk]

What these kind of arguments forget is how Johnson and co have:

a) introduced some over-the-top restrictions during lockdown (criminalising two people in a bubble having a takeaway coffee together outside in an isolated area, for example, which is hardly going to spread Covid; and making people feel guilty for even visiting the supermarket through that advertising campaign this time last year) and

b) restricted the freedom to move to and from EU countries to and from the UK easily.

It seems right-wing commentators use terms like "freedom" when it suits them, as a weapon to hit the left with - but the people they defend do not always actually believe in freedom and have implemented some pretty strong anti-freedom policies.

I think the biggest thing these commentators are forgetting is that at heart, Johnson is a populist. He will move his views and decisions to where he thinks he will find the most supporters. The lack of restrictions recently is not a reflection of Johnson getting stronger and deciding to ignore the scientists, or a twist to concern for the financial implications of another lockdown, it's a reflection of the general public distaste for another lockdown. Brand Boris would be more damaged by cancelling Christmas for the second year in a row than the alternatives, so he didn't - if the public had turned on him again - as they did when he was dithering about before calling the previous lockdowns - you can be sure he would have been back behind his desk pifflewaffling about how we need to make one more big push to defeat this enemy.

Boris isn't a champion of freedom, he's a champion of Boris.

 

[brad465]

Apparently Johnson has been handed the Sue Gray report (at least what's left of it after the Met got involved), and could be released later today:

Sue Gray: Initial findings of Downing Street lockdown party probe published

Boris Johnson is to address MPs, as an "update" from Sue Gray's inquiry into lockdown parties is published.

www.bbc.co.uk

Boris Johnson handed results of Sue Gray report into Downing Street parties, ahead of expected public release today

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

 

[LOL The Irony]

(at least what's left of it after the Met got involved)

Knew the met getting involved was to hamstring the Gray report. This swamp needs draining.

 

[kristiang85]

Knew the met getting involved was to hamstring the Gray report. This swamp needs draining.

It's just too convenient, isn't it? They really are playing us for fools.

 

[bramling]

Knew the met getting involved was to hamstring the Gray report. This swamp needs draining.

I can’t help but be suspicious at anything involving Cressida Dick. How on earth she could reach her current position after Stockwell is completely beyond me. Even allowing for the difficult atmosphere of the time, that operation was shambolic.

 

[96tommy]

No.10 are now backtracking and are not committing to the full report being released when it does finally come out. They really do take us for fools

 

[Busaholic]

No.10 are now backtracking and are not committing to the full report being released when it does finally come out. They really do take us for fools

You can fool some of the people all of the time, so they have to be discounted in the credibility debate: it's those of us who can only be fooled some of the time who hold the key, including those of us who were never fooled by Johnson for one second.

 

[kristiang85]

Boris is addressing the commons at 3.30pm on the report. Obviously we know the answer to every question will be "We have to wait for the Met Police report..."

 

[LOL The Irony]

It's just too convenient, isn't it? They really are playing us for fools.

Yeah. Never trust the met.

I can’t help but be suspicious at anything involving Cressida Dick. How on earth she could reach her current position after Stockwell is completely beyond me. Even allowing for the difficult atmosphere of the time, that operation was shambolic.

It's shameful how she's still in a job. She should've gone into early retirement