Local services operated by 'express' stock for operational convenience

[Falcon1200]

Pre-electrification, the 1712 Glasgow C-Ayr was for a while formed of the air-con Nightrider stock. On 19th December 1984 I took it from Glasgow C to Johnstone behind 47453.

 

[nw1]

A few years ago there was a 444 operated Southampton to Portsmouth all stations stopper on the Netley line in the morning peak. Some sort of positioning move. IIRC.

In the past the Southampton-Portsmouth locals used to interwork pretty much all day with the Portsmouth-Eastleigh-Waterloo services, which meant that CIGs (which in this context I'd class as 'express stock') operated most of them.

This changed when the Desiros were introduced, presumably because it would involve 444s working most Southampton-Portsmouth locals which would have platform length issues. Side effect of course is inefficient turn around times at Portsmouth for, AFAIK, both services!

If you‘re classing 158s as express stock, then the Salisbury to Romsey all stations stopper must be an example of a service operated with the wrong type of train. Or the Lymington flyer when 158 operated.

That is very true and in fact a local example for myself; though to be fair (and apologies if this wasn't clear) I was more looking for examples in which local services were formed of stock which operated express services for much of the day as a 'fill in' turn, for operational convenience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They run stoppers all over the place, the interior might not be that suited but the gearbox certainly is compared to the 142s they've replaced!

Indeed. Original Northern ordered them for fast services, but new Northern has correctly realised that they save money and improve punctuality on stopping services and so they run quite a lot of those with e.g. 158s doing some long distance runs.

 

[Dai Corner]

Crosscountry used to start an early morning Bristol-Manchester Voyager at Cardiff Central to carry commuters to Temple Meads. I think there was a late evening service in the opposite direction.

If we're counting 158s and 170s as express stock then TfW's Cambrian lines (all 158) and Cardiff-Ebbw Vale, Newport-Crosskeys and Cardiff- Maesteg (often 170).

Can the 175 operated Manchester-Milford Havens be considered local services west of Swansea?

 

[Class 466]

395s work some all shacks class 2 services between Ashford & Margate at the start and end of service when they’d normally be fast.

 

[High Dyke]

EMR HST's to Skegness?

Not quite in the same context. The stock was providing additional services, but only stopped at core stations. One year they did run in the diagram of a stopping passenger service, but omitted stops at Heckington and Wainfleet (those were served by replacement buses). The oddity of that was for a passenger at Heckington wishing to travel to Boston or Skegness, it was quicker to use the Up service to Sleaford and change to the HST to double-back through Heckington, rather than wait for the bus.

 

[RPI]

Crosscountry used to start an early morning Bristol-Manchester Voyager at Cardiff Central to carry commuters to Temple Meads. I think there was a late evening service in the opposite direction.

If we're counting 158s and 170s as express stock then TfW's Cambrian lines (all 158) and Cardiff-Ebbw Vale, Newport-Crosskeys and Cardiff- Maesteg (often 170).

Can the 175 operated Manchester-Milford Havens be considered local services west of Swansea?

I would put most of the Cambrian (well. Birmingham to Aberystwyth at least) into the Express category, granted, Machynlleth to Pwllheli is very much a "local" service

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The Strood-Tonbridge shuttle via Maidstone West

Has been using 375s which took over from "suburban" 465s.

In the past, 4CEP/VEP/CIG units have worked the lines and prior to that semi-fast/suburban 2Hap/4EPBs have worked it

Is the Sittingbourne-Sheerness shuttle 375 worked?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would put most of the Cambrian (well. Birmingham to Aberystwyth at least) into the Express category, granted, Machynlleth to Pwllheli is very much a "local" service

I think I'd agree with that. Pwllheli is in a way a bit like some South East services - "fast to X then all stations to Y".

I know the Cambrian does call at all stations, but the ones that would be served by a Shrewsbury-Mach stopper have all closed, largely due to being in the middle of a field, they did used to exist.

 

[OliverH68]

I'm surprised with all the mentions of 444s, nobody has mentioned 2F02 0425 Guildford - Waterloo which is usually a 10 444 (though this week it seems to be running with 707s instead).

 

[nw1]

Crosscountry used to start an early morning Bristol-Manchester Voyager at Cardiff Central to carry commuters to Temple Meads. I think there was a late evening service in the opposite direction.

If we're counting 158s and 170s as express stock then TfW's Cambrian lines (all 158) and Cardiff-Ebbw Vale, Newport-Crosskeys and Cardiff- Maesteg (often 170).

Can the 175 operated Manchester-Milford Havens be considered local services west of Swansea?

With this kind of service I'd consider it an express service which turns into a stopper later, was more thinking of services which were Class 2 throughout.

Thanks for all the replies, some interesting workings here. Looks like the most common are services at the start of the day which do commuter workings before beginning their first long-distance journey.

In terms of those I remember myself, I am fairly sure that the occasional Paddington-Oxford local was 50-hauled with Mk-I stock in around 1984, perhaps interworking with Paddington-Oxford fasts. In the peak, many relatively-slow services were hauled, using the same stock that was used for Summer Saturday service. Have also heard of HSTs being diagrammed on Reading-Paddington locals one year, again presumably before they work their first IC service of the day. And in some of the 80s timetables, particularly mid 80s, a good many Paddington-Oxford services were HSTs: while Paddington-Oxford is an 'express' route, true, one might think it wasn't'inter-city' enough for an HST, at least back in the eighties. But these were convenient fill-in turns for HSTs between genuine inter-city workings.

In Southern Region slam-door days, CIGs frequently did stopping services, partly for operational convenience and partly because they were suitable for low-density services, when the VEPs might be needed for higher-density services on busier routes.

One thing I never noted, though, was a 442 running a genuinely stopping service on the South Western, aside from positioning moves at the start and end of the day.

I'm surprised with all the mentions of 444s, nobody has mentioned 2F02 0425 Guildford - Waterloo which is usually a 10 444 (though this week it seems to be running with 707s instead).

Also I believe that for quite a while, one of the Waterloo-Basingstoke peak services (the 1823, I think) was 10.444. I think this was soon after the Desiros had been introduced though, in the 00s: not sure if it stayed that way later.

It's particularly surprising that they could 'afford' to put 444s on Basingstoke stoppers during the peaks, when they might be needed for class 1 services. Off-peak on the other hand, it would make sense, as the low-density layout might encourage casual travellers to use the service off-peak.

 

[Dai Corner]

One I've just remembered is the 1715-ish Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton stopper in the early or mid 1980s. This used the Class 50 and stock off a Manchester arrival and was my daily train home. It wasn't unknown for the buffet to be open!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I was more looking for examples in which local services were formed of stock which operated express services for much of the day as a 'fill in' turn, for operational convenience.

Operation Efficiency is surely the words you are looking for here not convenience.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

With this kind of service I'd consider it an express service which turns into a stopper later, was more thinking of services which were Class 2 throughout.

A lot of Southend Victoria - Liverpool Street services are Class 2 throughout

 

[nw1]

A lot of Southend Victoria - Liverpool Street services are Class 2 throughout

What I meant here were workings operated by express stock which were class 2, as opposed to express services which become stoppers near the terminus, sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[swt_passenger]

Also I believe that for quite a while, one of the Waterloo-Basingstoke peak services (the 1823, I think) was 10.444. I think this was soon after the Desiros had been introduced though, in the 00s: not sure if it stayed that way later.

It's particularly surprising that they could 'afford' to put 444s on Basingstoke stoppers during the peaks, when they might be needed for class 1 services. Off-peak on the other hand, it would make sense, as the low-density layout might encourage casual travellers to use the service off-peak.

Remember that under SWT most Portsmouth Class 1 peak services were all 12.450 for max seating capacity, as DfT required. That would release some 10.444s for other unexpected routes…

 

[nw1]

Remember that under SWT most Portsmouth Class 1 peak services were all 12.450 for max seating capacity, as DfT required. That would release some 10.444s for other unexpected routes…

Yes, very true. Different from the situation in the final days of slam-doors (e.g Dec 2003 timetable) when they reserved two 442s (then generally regarded as the 'premium' units) to operate the prime peak evening service (the 1750, or thereabouts) on the Direct, and the morning equivalent.

By that time, 442s had otherwise disappeared from the Direct except for some daytime workings of these same two units (splitting into 5-cars) in between the peaks.

 

[Class 466]

The Strood-Tonbridge shuttle via Maidstone West

Has been using 375s which took over from "suburban" 465s.

In the past, 4CEP/VEP/CIG units have worked the lines and prior to that semi-fast/suburban 2Hap/4EPBs have worked it

Is the Sittingbourne-Sheerness shuttle 375 worked?

At a 52 minute journey time, shuttle is pushing it slightly. 375s are regional trains and this route is perfect for them. The sheerness branch is also 375/3 worked.

 

[Annetts key]

With this kind of service I'd consider it an express service which turns into a stopper later, was more thinking of services which were Class 2 throughout.

So this is not what you are interested in: 1C25

But would this be more like what you are interested in: 2C73

 

[47827]

Some great examples, mostly with units but here's a few more...

As someone said in the 1980s the set for the second Liverpool to Newcastle, for a while worked other services such as a Manchester commuter train and one of the sets for a while did an evening Liverpool to Manchester. There was even a period of an 07xx Wigan to Liverpool before the set scurried off to the North East. Towards the end of those trains there were several trains formed of mk1s hauled mostly by 31s or any available 47 (occasionally other stuff) on the Liverpool to Preston/Manchester Victoria circuits. By early 1991 they then switched to ex Provincial Express mk2s cascaded off the Liverpool to Cardiff and Newcastle routes producing a variety of liveries (even NSE) and were mostly 31s with 47s becoming rarer after the Newcastle route ended. Through the early 90s they were mostly repainted in Regional Railways colours after a few NSE ones had a hybrid livery for a time. 31s also shared the duties with 37s for a time although by the end years 31s had the monopoly again as 37s shifted onto the North Wales circuits that started running all year round. A mix Liverpool /Manchester to Blackpool plus Manchester to Barrow and Southport all featured over that period albeit eventually binned off with a focus on the North Wales route after summer 1995.

Can think of plenty of occasions when 158s and later other stock frequented local services. The all stations Leeds to Liverpool via Bradford and Manchester was initially 155s but 158s latterly. The Liverpool to Blackpool line for a while could kick it out anything from a 142 through to a 158 with some booked to stop at most or all stations.

In North Wales there were regular Llandudno loco hauled trains from the Potteries (but sometimes Derby) and Birmingham areas and often one of these sets formed a round trip to Blaenau Ffestiniog to provide increased summer capacity on the Conway Valley route.

There's probably hundreds of examples of IC and Regional Express loco hauled stock and various locos across the network of local services but most recently the 90s on Mk3s to North Berwick, 37s/68s on the Cumbrian Coast and Anglian branches must be the most obvious ones. One of the 37 hauled sets even did an ill fated vice unit turn between Crewe and Derby via Uttoxeter on a Sunday in the last decade or so. Must not forget the final examples being Rhymney to March 2020 and the Fife commuter Mk2 sets, now HSTs.

 

[RPI]

I mean, dare I mention, Waterloo to Exeter? Stops at every lamp post using 159's

 

[ld0595]

As someone else said, the Scotrail Fife Circle HST springs to mind which operates a few times a day. Would the old Fife Circles MK2s also count?

Class 385 Cathcart Circle services

Are there any booked 385s runs to Cathcart? I know they've run in the past but I've never seen one so far.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I mean, dare I mention, Waterloo to Exeter? Stops at every lamp post using 159's

Used to stop at every lamppost with 50s and mk2s….

 

[Peter0124]

As someone else said, the Scotrail Fife Circle HST springs to mind which operates a few times a day. Would the old Fife Circles MK2s also count?


Are there any booked 385s runs to Cathcart? I know they've run in the past but I've never seen one so far.

The covid timetable put a stop to it but there were some about two or three months ago, also booked ones pre-covid

 

[47827]

As someone else said, the Scotrail Fife Circle HST springs to mind which operates a few times a day. Would the old Fife Circles MK2s also count?


Are there any booked 385s runs to Cathcart? I know they've run in the past but I've never seen one so far.

The mk2s that had well over a decade on the Fife commuters, supplied by no fewer than 4 different companies over that period, were all built as BR Intercity rolling stock with tables so certainly should count. The HST stock is even more swish for such a service, on the limited basis it works, as that was of course flagship 125mph stock until very recently, and just about still is on XC!

 

[Bill57p9]

The Glasgow Queen Street to Anniesland shuttle is often a 158. End doors that open and close slowly weren't intended for routes with stations sometimes less than a mile apart.

 

[Peter0124]

The Glasgow Queen Street to Anniesland shuttle is often a 158. End doors that open and close slowly weren't intended for routes with stations sometimes less than a mile apart.

Also 158 on Whifflet pre Dec 2014 when it was unelectrified

 

[D6130]

Also 158 on Whifflet pre Dec 2014 when it was unelectrified

Or even electrified?

 

[mtmikethom]

Don't First Great Western use 5 car 800's on local services from Paddington to Bedwyn & Oxford/Great Malvern etc sure I saw one at Paddington with Radley included as a stopping point?

 

[liamf656]

EMT used to use a 158 on each of a pair of Mansfield Woodhouse to Nottingham morning peak additionals, both of which continued to Norwich, one as an advertised through service and the other changing headcode at Nottingham..

They also, recently, had a Matlock to Skegness single journey for operational convenience although it didn’t last long at all.

Meridians sometimes worked Leicester to Lincoln stoppers and, as mentioned, the Crewe service when it got extremely busy