Using The Key as a inboundary Travelcard?

[Feuillesmortes]

A discounted zone 1-6 Travelcard is £9.10 which is cheaper than the PAYG Cap (I am thinking particularly for the Network Railcard at the weekend) but hard to obtain at a bus stop or tube station. Would I be able to load one onto The Key notionally using a station just outside the zones, perhaps for around £10?

What tickets are not available to buy on The Key?
You cannot buy Advance tickets (low cost, standard class, single tickets for travel on specific trains), Early Bird Season tickets, Anytime Open Returns and Off-Peak Open Returns onto The Key.

PlusBus tickets are not yet available on The Key.

If your starting station is within the travelcard zones you are not able to add a London Travelcard – including Season tickets and One Day Travelcards – onto The Key.

 

[island]

I don’t see why not. At a weekend, from Gatwick Airport is £9.15.

 

[johncrossley]

With the EMR app (and probably others) you can add a Surbiton to London Off-Peak Travelcard with a Network Railcard to a smartcard if you have NFC on your phone.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

I don’t see why not. At a weekend, from Gatwick Airport is £9.15.

Thanks, that's a bargain fare!

With the EMR app (and probably others) you can add a Surbiton to London Off-Peak Travelcard with a Network Railcard to a smartcard if you have NFC on your phone.

Would I need a EMR smartcard to do this?

 

[johncrossley]

Thanks, that's a bargain fare!


Would I need a EMR smartcard to do this?

I've got both EMR and GTR smartcards, but I could only get the EMR smartcard to work with the app. So I just use the EMR card for Travelcards and the GTR smartcard for KeyGo.

 

[bakerstreet]

I have a thaneslink key recently arrived which i haven’t yet used.
I believe I am relatively savvy but having read the instructions I am not yet confident to use it and instead i continue to use my Oyster.
However I would like to be able to add a one day travelcard on to the key.
If there is anyone who might be willing to explain step by step - either here or via DM - how to do this i would be very grateful.

Similarly if anyone is happy to explain how the EMR smart card can work for the same purpose please do let me know.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Similarly if anyone is happy to explain how the EMR smart card can work for the same purpose please do let me know.

I'd also be interested. There are a few threads about ITSO but I haven't managed to read all of them.

 

[Haywain]

I have a thaneslink key recently arrived which i haven’t yet used.
I believe I am relatively savvy but having read the instructions I am not yet confident to use it and instead i continue to use my Oyster.

What is causing you to lack confidence?

I'd also be interested. There are a few threads about ITSO but I haven't managed to read all of them.

ITSO cards *should* be interchangeable, and tickets can be added to the card of any train company - for example, you can use your EMR smartcard to buy a ticket at an LNER Travel Centre even if the ticket is for travel on GWR services. However, it may be that an app is tied down to cards issued by the train company in question, and not all apps will allow a ticket to be loaded to a card by NFC. I hope this helps a bit.

 

[bakerstreet]

What is causing you to lack confidence?

ITSO cards *should* be interchangeable, and tickets can be added to the card of any train company - for example, you can use your EMR smartcard to buy a ticket at an LNER Travel Centre even if the ticket is for travel on GWR services. However, it may be that an app is tied down to cards issued by the train company in question, and not all apps will allow a ticket to be loaded to a card by NFC. I hope this helps a bit.

It’s not a lack of trust it’s simply confidence in my understanding and knowledge of what I am buying, how/when it’s loaded, how can I be sure it’s loaded, does it work the same way as Oyster in the zones.

The instructions for the key https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/t...MIp7G888qV9gIVsIBQBh1zSA0nEAAYASAAEgInLPD_BwE

Seem to suggest it’s PAYG or season ticket only.

My experience is only with
Oyster
NR Paper and e-ticket point to point
Paper travelcard

This seems very much more complicated to understand on the face of it. At least it is for me

Eg I’ve just used the Thameslink link given to buy tickets on the key. I put in my journey. The only option is offers is to collect paper ticket from TVM.

 

[E759]

Travelcards can only be loaded onto GTR's Key using a TVM. Press the ITSO button on the TVM home screen and follow the instructions. Not all Travelcard products appear to be available; e.g. Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard doesn't seem to be available for my route. Which for me makes Key useless.

The only TOC I've found which explains how to load tickets onto an ITSO card from a TVM is ScotRail. No wonder you see so few people using Key for daily tickets. And now you can buy e-tickets directly on your phone from GTR they must, one assumes, be planning to phase out daily tickets on Key...

 

[bakerstreet]

Travelcards can only be loaded onto GTR's Key using a TVM. Press the ITSO button on the TVM home screen and follow the instructions. Not all Travelcard products appear to be available; e.g. Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard doesn't seem to be available for my route. Which for me makes Key useless.

The only TOC I've found which explains how to load tickets onto an ITSO card from a TVM is ScotRail. No wonder you see so few people using Key for daily tickets. And now you can buy e-tickets directly on your phone from GTR they must, one assumes, be planning to phase out daily tickets on Key...

That explains it thanks !

Do you know if there is a card which enables you, in the comfort of your own home, to

Take the card
Buy a daily ticket including travelcard online through an app
Collect / load the ticket by touching it on the phone (which seems to be possible with some tickets)
Load any discount where relevant.
Use the ticket.

Is this what the EMR card does?

It looks like I need an Oyster for single journeys in London, the key for GTR best value touch in touch out and something else for daily tickets not on either of those.

My head hurts. It would be great if one day there was one medium that does everything. (I know that the one medium which used to do everything is being slowly killed off. Please don’t kill off paper until all this is made much easier to understand)

 

[E759]

Picking up the "confidence" issue:

30 percent of my journeys using KeyGo result in over-charging. You have to watch your KeyGo account like a hawk to pickup the mistakes the system makes then go through the complaints process to get your money back.

Journeys made at the weekend returning late at night after the barriers have been left open result in incomplete journeys which cannot be completed online (you get an error LOL!). Seems you need to wait until Tuesday or Wednesday for the barrier data to make it to your account. So again, you have to watch your account like a hawk to see if your completed journey get completed. And if it doesn't, well that's another contact with GTR you have to make.

 

[Watershed]

Journeys made at the weekend returning late at night after the barriers have been left open result in incomplete journeys which cannot be completed online (you get an error LOL!

Surely you can still tap out, even if the barrier is open? I believe that's the standard practice with Oyster/contactless.

 

[johncrossley]

Surely you can still tap out, even if the barrier is open? I believe that's the standard practice with Oyster/contactless.

Yes you can still touch out, but if you look at the KeyGo account next morning it sometimes says that the journey is incomplete. If you try to complete it, you get an error. This seems to resolve itself in the following days.

 

[bakerstreet]

I’ve just ordered an EMR smart card. It looks to offer the best flexibility and appears very simple on their app which I’ve also downloaded

 

[johncrossley]

I’ve just ordered an EMR smart card. It looks to offer the best flexibility and appears very simple on their app which I’ve also downloaded

If you look at previous threads, it also used to offer e-Tickets on some journeys that other apps would only offer a paper ticket collection. I haven't tried other apps recently so I don't know if that's still the case. I'm happy using the EMR app for both e-Tickets and smartcard loading for the moment.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The best bet for a loading app is the National Rail Smartcard manager app.

 

[johncrossley]

The best bet for a loading app is the National Rail Smartcard manager app.

How do you add a Surbiton to London Day Travelcard to a GTR smartcard using that app?

 

[Wallsendmag]

If anything is ready to load to a card you just hold the card to the back of the device and follow the instructions. You can't buy tickets on there but it will load a purchased ticket.

 

[Haywain]

You just need to find an app or website that will sell your required ticket to load to a smartcard.

 

[johncrossley]

You just need to find an app or website that will sell your required ticket to load to a smartcard.

But why would you do this when the app can load the ticket to the smartcard anyway? I don't see how the National Rail Smartcard manager app helps. If I want a Surbiton to London Day Travelcard, I need to find an app that will sell it. But those apps will only let you buy a ticket if you have their smartcard. And if you have their smartcard, you can use that app to load the ticket.

 

[Haywain]

If I want a Surbiton to London Day Travelcard, I need to find an app that will sell it.

Sorry, but just at the moment you won't find one, because that is an inboundary Travelcard which TOCs are not (yet) permitted to sell to smartcards.

 

[johncrossley]

Sorry, but just at the moment you won't find one, because that is an inboundary Travelcard which TOCs are not (yet) permitted to sell to smartcards.

You can buy a Travelcard from Surbiton on the EMR app (as mentioned above).

But, ignoring inboundary Travelcards for now, what about a Travelcard from Woking? The same principle applies. You need the right app to sell the ticket, but if you have the right app, then you can load the ticket without the National Rail app.

 

[Haywain]

You can buy a Travelcard from Surbiton on the EMR app (as mentioned above).

To load on to a smartcard?

 

[johncrossley]

To load on to a smartcard?

 

[E759]

Surely you can still tap out, even if the barrier is open? I believe that's the standard practice with Oyster/contactless.

Beaten to it but yes, you tap out but the tap out doesn't get recorded on your account until Tuesday/Wednesday. The fact that you can't manually complete the journey in your account is a big clue as to what is going on in the background. It's standard and repeatable behaviour which isn't described anywhere on the GTR websites. Obviously the people in the know don't post here or are sworn to secrecy so customers are left in the dark.

That explains it thanks !

Do you know if there is a card which enables you, in the comfort of your own home, to

Take the card
Buy a daily ticket including travelcard online through an app
Collect / load the ticket by touching it on the phone (which seems to be possible with some tickets)
Load any discount where relevant.
Use the ticket.

Is this what the EMR card does?

It looks like I need an Oyster for single journeys in London, the key for GTR best value touch in touch out and something else for daily tickets not on either of those.

My head hurts. It would be great if one day there was one medium that does everything. (I know that the one medium which used to do everything is being slowly killed off. Please don’t kill off paper until all this is made much easier to understand)

Three Cards for the Ferry-boats upon the sea,
Seven for the Metro-trams in their cities of stone,
Nine for the TOCs doomed to die,
One for the Mayor of London on his dark throne
In the Land of Sodor where the Reverend lies.
One Card to rule them all, One Card to find them,
One Card to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Sodor where the Reverend lies.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Quick question - using the Key as a Travelcard, do you still have to watch the maximum journey times for each sector or are you able to roam at will once inside the barriers?

 

[johncrossley]

Quick question - using the Key as a Travelcard, do you still have to watch the maximum journey times for each sector or are you able to roam at will once inside the barriers?

In general, ITSO smartcards don't have a pay as you go balance that can be deducted so I don't see how surcharges for incomplete journeys could ever be charged.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In general, ITSO smartcards don't have a pay as you go balance that can be deducted so I don't see how surcharges for incomplete journeys could ever be charged.

Thank you... interesting...

 

[Haywain]

View attachment 110632View attachment 110633

They appear to have jumped the gun somewhat on offering that, as it hasn’t yet been approved by TfL to our knowledge.