2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro)

[43066]

It is quite possible to change that though isn't it? Have it like Thameslink where doors open in the core, and say that on the displays and audio announcements. Then as you go further out of town you can operate them manually.

It’s unlikely Piccadilly line trains will dwell for long enough for this to be an issue?

 

[chiltern trev]

Underground convention now is that all doors are initially opened at stations, including air-conditioned/cooled Stock. Doors will auto-close after set time-out.

So that means in winter at above ground stations you get the wonderful experience of freezing cold air/ winds blowing in if a set of doors are opened and nobody uses that set of doors. Lovely passenger experience not!!

It’s unlikely Piccadilly line trains will dwell for long enough for this to be an issue?

Even with short dwell times this is an issue at above ground stations.

It is quite possible to change that though isn't it? Have it like Thameslink where doors open in the core, and say that on the displays and audio announcements. Then as you go further out of town you can operate them manually.

Definitely the way to go

 

[A60stock]

I agree with the points re auto opening all doors at above ground stations. On the S stock, despite the auto close feature, it is common for the doors to remain open beyond the 45 second auto close time and in the Winter, this is really annoying. I don't know why driver sometimes hold all doors open at quiet stations.

TFL really need to reconsider this policy, as its a complete waste of energy on stock that has air conditioning/cooling. Perhaps once trains reach a certain zone or station going in or out of London (this would be line specific), they switch to or from auto open

 

[BayPaul]

I agree with the points re auto opening all doors at above ground stations. On the S stock, despite the auto close feature, it is common for the doors to remain open beyond the 45 second auto close time and in the Winter, this is really annoying. I don't know why driver sometimes hold all doors open at quiet stations.

TFL really need to reconsider this policy, as its a complete waste of energy on stock that has air conditioning/cooling. Perhaps once trains reach a certain zone or station going in or out of London (this would be line specific), they switch to or from auto open

I hope they stay as they are. In my experience commuting on this line, almost every door has movements at every station, and it is common that the train is crowded enough that it could be difficult to reach a door opening button. I don't think the confusion would be worth the very few doors remaining closed for a few seconds to be honest.

 

[Snow1964]

Geoff Marshall video of Piccadilly line mockup

 

[jon0844]

I hope they stay as they are. In my experience commuting on this line, almost every door has movements at every station, and it is common that the train is crowded enough that it could be difficult to reach a door opening button. I don't think the confusion would be worth the very few doors remaining closed for a few seconds to be honest.

They likely aren't as crowded in the outer stations, and the positioning of the buttons will decide how easy it is to operate them. If the trains are enabled to 'count' passengers then I guess you could use software to determine a busy train and have auto opening enabled at that point only.

 

[BayPaul]

They likely aren't as crowded in the outer stations, and the positioning of the buttons will decide how easy it is to operate them. If the trains are enabled to 'count' passengers then I guess you could use software to determine a busy train and have auto opening enabled at that point only.

In my experience, the trains are frequently jammed out to Northfields in the evening, and impossible to board from Boston Manor in the morning. That's pretty jammed, and only a few stations short of Heathrow. I really don't see the point of not having all doors opening - that's the way the tube works, anything else will confuse passengers and mean lots of annoying and pointless announcements.

 

[richardcoughla]

Geoff Marshall was at the factory to see the mock up of the 2025 stock for the Piccadilly Line

 

[bramling]

I agree with the points re auto opening all doors at above ground stations. On the S stock, despite the auto close feature, it is common for the doors to remain open beyond the 45 second auto close time and in the Winter, this is really annoying. I don't know why driver sometimes hold all doors open at quiet stations.

TFL really need to reconsider this policy, as its a complete waste of energy on stock that has air conditioning/cooling. Perhaps once trains reach a certain zone or station going in or out of London (this would be line specific), they switch to or from auto open

Passenger door opening has been a revolving door since the 1930s. Every generation the lessons from the past are forgotten, and the whole cycle starts again.

That lesson is … passenger open doesn’t really work well on London Underground. Indeed, fleets built with it (96 and 95 stocks) have gone as far as having had the buttons removed, and they haven’t functioned on the 92 stock for very many years.

In my view the S stock strikes the right balance.

 

[Recessio]

Passenger door opening has been a revolving door since the 1930s. Every generation the lessons from the past are forgotten, and the whole cycle starts again.

That lesson is … passenger open doesn’t really work well on London Underground. Indeed, fleets built with it (96 and 95 stocks) have gone as far as having had the buttons removed, and they haven’t functioned on the 92 stock for very many years.

In my view the S stock strikes the right balance.

Passenger opening was also found to be a dwell time problem on the D78 and 1983 stock, I think.

 

[100andthirty]

D stock and 1983 tube stock dwell time problems persisted after the passenger open was disabled because of the narrow doors.

 

[Dstock7080]

D stock and 1983 tube stock dwell time problems persisted after the passenger open was disabled because of the narrow doors.

Not during my experience of operating D Stock, they had more evenly spaced doors than the trains they replaced and were great at clearing crowds.
Passenger operation certainly hindered them, as you could be ready to close them as someone walked up and opened one.

 

[Goldfish62]

D stock and 1983 tube stock dwell time problems persisted after the passenger open was disabled because of the narrow doors.

Yes, they were designed for what was seen as inevitable long-term decline and simply couldn't cope with the increase in passenger numbers that occurred instead.

 

[Mawkie]

It’s unlikely Piccadilly line trains will dwell for long enough for this to be an issue?

Terminus stations such as Uxbridge and Cockfosters would be a good choice to have some door closure options. Also, Pic trains can sit 2 or 3 minutes at South Harrow e/b and w/b, and North Ealing e/b sometimes, as well as Boston Manor w/b.

The existing selective door closure option on the 73 Stock is not well understood in my experience. I once had a CSA run the entire length of Cockfosters platform to tell me only "half your doors are open"! It was snowing!

I think most people now understand the concept of all doors opening and then closing again - with the option to self re-open by using an interior/exterior button. So I hope some self closing and self opening is introduced, perhaps off peak and in the outer sections obviously.

Just as a slight aside - without end-car porter buttons, I think the door closure buttons are utilised when de-training on S-Stock. Will this be the same on the 24 Stock?

 

[Dstock7080]

So I hope some self closing and self opening is introduced, perhaps off peak and in the outer sections obviously.

Just as a slight aside - without end-car porter buttons, I think the door closure buttons are utilised when de-training on S-Stock. Will this be the same on the 24 Stock?

I doubt close buttons will return for passenger use.
S Stock only have open buttons and must be activated for ‘platform close’ before detrainment.

 

[Mawkie]

I doubt close buttons will return for passenger use.
S Stock only have open buttons and must be activated for ‘platform close’ before detrainment.

Oh, I worded that badly. I meant I hope for (computer) self closing doors and (human) self opening doors.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I notice the windows are quite small, with three where current stock has two or even one larger one. Is this for a stronger structure, or is it a stylistic nod towards the earlier stock e.g. the 1934 which had a run of small windows, or both?

 

[Mikey C]

I notice the windows are quite small, with three where current stock has two or even one larger one. Is this for a stronger structure, or is it a stylistic nod towards the earlier stock e.g. the 1934 which had a run of small windows, or both?

I'm sure I read somewhere that the aircon ducts will run between the windows?

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the aircon ducts will run between the windows?

Yes, that's the precise reason for the small windows.

 

[thomalex]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the aircon ducts will run between the windows?

Yes. I must admit I wasn't keen on the smaller windows at first but I'm getting used to them now I understand the function.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The square door windows (typisch Siemens, also featuring on Desiros) also hark back nicely to the 1930s stock.

 

[Goldfish62]

The square door windows (typisch Siemens, also featuring on Desiros) also hark back nicely to the 1930s stock.

Good point. I like them - a distinctly different look to everything else on the network.

 

[ChrisEL]

Obviously this is subjective, but I much prefer the moquette that Geoff Marshall says won't be used (at 04.03 in the video) over the one that will be. I like the darker blue, and the lines all going in the same direction give a feeling of speed, somehow.

 

[AM9]

Obviously this is subjective, but I much prefer the moquette that Geoff Marshall says won't be used (at 04.03 in the video) over the one that will be. I like the darker blue, and the lines all going in the same direction give a feeling of speed, somehow.

That looks like a derivative of the Crossrail moquette used in the 345s.

 

[rebmcr]

Obviously this is subjective, but I much prefer the moquette that Geoff Marshall says won't be used (at 04.03 in the video) over the one that will be. I like the darker blue, and the lines all going in the same direction give a feeling of speed, somehow.

Very much agreed.

 

[theking]

Auto opening doors are more safe, as it brings in zero need for passengers to interact with the train you only need to go to an Overground platform and stand there for a few minutes to see how many people try to interact with the train when the doors are closed.

The safety benefits auto door opening brings to TFL outweighs a few people getting cold.

 

[D365]

Obviously this is subjective, but I much prefer the moquette that Geoff Marshall says won't be used (at 04.03 in the video) over the one that will be. I like the darker blue, and the lines all going in the same direction give a feeling of speed, somehow.

As do I.

 

[choochoochoo]

Why don't they have the same Nose End Doors that the 717s. Fourth rail makes it not feasible ?

Interesting that TfL got a cab re-design when even with a mock up, GTR accepted the cab configuration for the 717 even though it's terrible for an instructor driver point of view.

 

[TRAX]

Why don't they have the same Nose End Doors that the 717s. Fourth rail makes it not feasible ?

They do, all Underground trains do.

 

[Nym]

Why don't they have the same Nose End Doors that the 717s. Fourth rail makes it not feasible ?

Interesting that TfL got a cab re-design when even with a mock up, GTR accepted the cab configuration for the 717 even though it's terrible for an instructor driver point of view.

717 cab end doors are only used for emergency egress, and are also quite a lot bigger.

Tube stock uses the cab end (M) door for routine access.