Trivia: Worst branding elements used for a public transport service

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from the LT roundel which despite being confined to the home counties, is pretty well identifiable throughout the country.

I would say it is easily in the top ten recognisable brands worldwide.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I don't think they were aware of brands in those days! Another example of unfortunate initials was the narrow gauge Weston Clevedon & Portishead Railway which was the subject of a few sniggers (WC & P). There's also the very scenic Centrovalli line from Switzerland to Italy which is operated by a company with the Italian initials FART.

And of course Swiss trains run around with "FFS" on the side of them, an abbreviation I've always thought would be better suited to CrossCountry.

 

[mmh]

Apart from the LT roundel which despite being confined to the home counties, is pretty well identifiable throughout the country.

True. I'd put the National Bus logo as 3rd, not 2nd.

 

[Merle Haggard]

And of course Swiss trains run around with "FFS" on the side of them, an abbreviation I've always thought would be better suited to CrossCountry.

It used to be a technical term on B.R. - F = Full, F&S = Full and Standing; FFS = very Full and Standing...

 

[FartinLewis]

Not rail related, but when the energy company Powergen set up an Italian subsidiary they called it.......

Powergen Italia

whinch caused a lot of sniggering amongst English speakers

Urban myth I'm afraid!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And of course Swiss trains run around with "FFS" on the side of them, an abbreviation I've always thought would be better suited to CrossCountry.

The buses around Stoke-on-Trent used to raise a chuckle, being an abbreviation of Potteries Motor Transport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The buses around Stoke-on-Trent used to raise a chuckle, being an abbreviation of Potteries Motor Transport.

The mind boggles as to why for many years management thought First(f) PMT was a good branding, rather than First(f) Potteries. They didn't even universally do that, because Manchester was just Manchester, not GMT.

 

[Mat17]

WAGN always reminded me of wagon, as in cattle.

Not a great image to have when thinking of passenger comfort, but still better than a Merseyrail 142.

 

[fgwrich]

WAGN always reminded me of wagon, as in cattle.

Not a great image to have when thinking of passenger comfort, but still better than a Merseyrail 142.

I always found their livery options a bit odd too - having started off with the copy cat SWT livery on the 317/6s to the rather bland Purple livery on the 317/3s. Still, it did bring us the original nickname of the Purple People Eater

 

[northwichcat]

I’ve always thought that ‘Nova’ from TransPennine is an epic fail, given that it translates as ‘No go’ in some common languages.

That's a myth originating from a story about the Nova car in Mexico. In Spanish nova means exactly the same as it does in English. No va might relate to a vehicle not moving.

And of course Swiss trains run around with "FFS" on the side of them, an abbreviation I've always thought would be better suited to CrossCountry.

In Germany you can travel on the Fugger Express, that sounds a bit like a toned down swear word.

 

[cool110]

There's always the classic 3 gears jammed up.

 

[northwichcat]

D&G Bus. The founders, David and Gareth, claimed they hadn't heard of Dolce & Gabbana.

The mind boggles as to why for many years management thought First(f) PMT was a good branding, rather than First(f) Potteries. They didn't even universally do that, because Manchester was just Manchester, not GMT.

In Manchester they took over GMB North. They did used to be called First Greater Manchester. It may have got shortened after they sold depots to Stagecoach, reducing the number of routes which didn't go in to Manchester itself.

GMB South went to Stagecoach and it's still their registered business name.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was branded GreaterManchester(f). That was the general style they used in the late 90s. I don't know what they did in the Potteries at that stage.

 

[BluePenguin]

Southeastern’s “make a connection” circa 2008, it implied none of their services went directly where you wanted to go.

Well they don’t, do they?

Nearly all of my journeys on Southeastern involve at least one change to get to my destination. But I will save that for another thread

 

[HullRailMan]

Stagecoach Hull have had two brands that I think are awful. “Frequento” was the first which was meant to mean low-floor and frequent. Next up we had “Simplibus” with the tag lines simple routes, simple times, simple fares. In reality all they did was renumber the network, and frequencies were neither simple or consistent ranging from every 7/8 mins on some routes to one per hour and even one per day on the 123. Routes weren’t simple either with variations still existing (eg 5/5A/U5).

Bus usage in Hull has steadily declined in the past 20 years, so it would seem that this branding had zero impact!

 

[Andyh82]

It was branded GreaterManchester(f). That was the general style they used in the late 90s. I don't know what they did in the Potteries at that stage.

PMT(f)

It was the general style to keep the current company name and just add a First prefix at that time - hence you also had First Western National, First Badgerline, First Cityline etc

The more corporate naming style with geographical descriptions generally came about when local fleet names were dropped in favour of just ‘First’

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks. Was it styled PMT before First acquired it, e.g. in National Bus Company days?

 

[Ken H]

Thanks. Was it styled PMT before First acquired it, e.g. in National Bus Company days?

Yes
Link goes to image of a bus with NBC branding and PMT fleetname

https://i2-prod.stokesentinel.co.uk/incoming/article3225504.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2_Bus-3.jpg

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Thanks. Was it styled PMT before First acquired it, e.g. in National Bus Company days?

The PMT name was on buses (as initials rather than "Potteries Motor Transport") long before FirstGroup took over.

 

[fgwrich]

The PMT name was on buses (as initials rather than "Potteries Motor Transport") long before FirstGroup took over.

Indeed, the abbreviated PMT name has been in use since NBC days.

JEH 195K

PMT Bristol RE 195 is seen on the Uttoxeter town service.

www.flickr.com

We've actually gone full circle in some areas, with First Bus's Western Super Mare operation having returned back to the pre-First era Badgerline name and brand, complete with cartoon Badger.

Speaking of the above named company. The cartoon Badger used across the Western National, Badgerline, Eastern National & Thamesway companies always raised a smile, particularly if your vehicle was old and a bit of a stinker, when they dubiously gained the nickname Skunkbus (both in terms of vehicle condition and the cartoon badger!).

 

[northwichcat]

This page shows some pictures of PMT branded buses taken in the early 70s

Old Bus Photos » PMT – AEC Reliance – WJO 744 – S5626

Old Bus Photos - Old bus Photos and informative copy

www.old-bus-photos.co.uk

 

[Ken H]

PMT were, of course, a subsidiary of BET (British Electric Traction). Stoke had trams till 1928 run by Potteries Electric Traction Company created by BET. This was renames Potteries Motor Transport when the undertaking became purely a bus company. BET sold its bus interests to the government in 1967, who merged it with the Tilling group companies to make the National bus Company. Tilling had been nationalised in 1948.
Both Tilling and BET subsidiaries had large railway shareholdings so when the railways were nationalised, large parts of the bus industry became state owned.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Indeed, the abbreviated PMT name has been in use since NBC days.

JEH 195K

PMT Bristol RE 195 is seen on the Uttoxeter town service.

www.flickr.com

We've actually gone full circle in some areas, with First Bus's Western Super Mare operation having returned back to the pre-First era Badgerline name and brand, complete with cartoon Badger.

Speaking of the above named company. The cartoon Badger used across the Western National, Badgerline, Eastern National & Thamesway companies always raised a smile, particularly if your vehicle was old and a bit of a stinker, when they dubiously gained the nickname Skunkbus (both in terms of vehicle condition and the cartoon badger!).

I always preferred the Badgerline name to the obviously dreamt up by a committee "First". Always liked the cartoon badger on the rear windows of the Yorkshire Rider vehicles. Speaking of which, that's a name that really ought to be revived, as they generally seemed a decent outfit until the corporate-ism came in. Though the classic livery would look a bit dated now, so would perhaps benefit from a modern reinterpretation.

 

[fgwrich]

I always preferred the Badgerline name to the obviously dreamt up by a committee "First". Always liked the cartoon badger on the rear windows of the Yorkshire Rider vehicles. Speaking of which, that's a name that really ought to be revived, as they generally seemed a decent outfit until the corporate-ism came in. Though the classic livery would look a bit dated now, so would perhaps benefit from a modern reinterpretation.

Given First's current taste for more localised versions of it's corporate liveries, I'm surprised Yorkshire Rider hasn't made a return yet. Badgerline seems to work quite well, effectively using the Badgerline colours upon the current First Bus "Urban" template. Though at least First seems to be going back to more localised feel across it's operations (thankfully not to the go-ahead style of everything being different), whereas Stagecoach seem hell bent on sweeping away localised operations for corporate blandness.

 

[185]

This thread should be retitled... "the railway's most awful, ugly things which the 2023 GBR rebrand will destroy forever"

 

[fgwrich]

This thread should be retitled... "the railway's most awful, ugly things which the 2023 GBR rebrand will destroy forever"

Or, with GBR, the other way around…

Though some of the more recent franchises, First Group included, have already started to do that…

 

[northwichcat]

I always preferred the Badgerline name to the obviously dreamt up by a committee "First". Always liked the cartoon badger on the rear windows of the Yorkshire Rider vehicles. Speaking of which, that's a name that really ought to be revived, as they generally seemed a decent outfit until the corporate-ism came in. Though the classic livery would look a bit dated now, so would perhaps benefit from a modern reinterpretation.

I thought First's old livery of mainly white with a blue skirt and some pink decoration made look like a budget version of Starline Travel who had a livery like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rossendalian2013/14200112208

I think generally predominately green liveries are liked more than predominately white. Green's a colour most people like and it looks like someone's actually thought about it, while white looks like the branding was an after thought. Green paint generally also seems to be slower to fade than other colours and it's easy to keep clean. So it seems to be a good choice if there's no other operators in the area using that colour.

 

[Mat17]

I hate green. Prefer red or blue to be honest.

Can't stand the new Stagecoach livery with the blue, green and white. Looks awful. The older blue, orange and red beach ball livery is very smart imho.

 

[northwichcat]

Can't stand the new Stagecoach livery with the blue, green and white. Looks awful. The older blue, orange and red beach ball livery is very smart imho.

Possibly you prefer contrasting colour schemes than complimentary colour schemes. Blue and orange are opposite each other on a colour wheel, while blue and green sit next to each other. In theory they both work but for different reasons.

But saying that it also depends how colours are used. Old Stagecoach used the same colours as Old Centrebus/High Peak but more people seem to dislike the Centrebus one.

 

[Taunton]

There's also the very scenic Centrovalli line from Switzerland to Italy which is operated by a company with the Italian initials FART.

Schoolteacher I knew once took a class ski-ing to the Italian-speaking Swiss Alps in this district, and said the kids were in fits of laughter whenever a train (or associated bus) turned up with this emblazoned on the front. Ferrovie Autolinee Regionali Ticinesi; Railway and Bus line of the Ticino Region. Operating both sides of the border, it's FART in Switzerland and SSIF (a different legal company) in Italy.