RMT statement discussion.

[greyman42]

And as most front line railway employees were considered essential workers, unless isolating, they continued to go to work. To put up with the various antivirus measures (one way systems in buildings, taking your temperature and logging it when entering a building, limited numbers of staff in kitchen areas, mess rooms, locker rooms, plastic barriers, masks, gloves, cleaning pool road vehicles before every use, having to clean multiple user computer keyboards and mice before every use, travelling on trains with others which at first, in the early days was a bit scary, having meetings outside and learning how to use video conferencing which was a sharp learning curve for the technophobes) which all changed daily life.

And then, there was the fear, that while at work, or travelling to/from work, you may catch COVID19 and then take it home and infect your own family.

Why should railway employees not have the right to ask for a reasonable pay rise?

People in other jobs had different working practices during the pandemic. How does that justify a better pay rise?

 

[Fokx]

People in other jobs had different working practices during the pandemic. How does that justify a better pay rise?

Is your arguement really that because everyone had to work differently during the last two years, everyone should suffer with higher costs for energy, fuel, food, council tax, pension contributions, national insurance, broadband, student loans, rental prices and Income tax which have all risen astronomically over the last year

Are you and other posters really that bitter towards people being paid in line with inflation?

 

[Ken H]

Is your arguement really that because everyone had to work differently during the last two years, everyone should suffer with higher costs for energy, fuel, food, council tax, pension contributions, national insurance, broadband, student loans, rental prices and Income tax which have all risen astronomically over the last year

Are you and other posters really that bitter towards people being paid in line with inflation?

But where does this extra money come from? Increasing prices is just inflationary.

 

[lammergeier]

No, they aim for 2% - https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation

Doh! Happy to stand corrected. Every day a school day.

 

[Starmill]

For those thinking of arguing for roads to replace railways, keep in mind that it’s normally considered more expensive to build a new road of equivalent capacity compared to building a new normal (not high speed) railway. And ripping up an existing railway and replacing it with a road of equivalent capacity is not going to be a very cheap solution.

I'm not sure that anyone has particularly been arguing for this have they? There's a case to be made for conversion of short unelectrified lines with only passenger traffic to convert to busways or even trolleybus routes, because these would actually provide more capacity than the train service, but not simply to new highways.

 

[Ken H]

I'm not sure that anyone has particularly been arguing for this have they? There's a case to be made for conversion of short unelectrified lines with only passenger traffic to convert to busways or even trolleybus routes, because these would actually provide more capacity than the train service, but not simply to new highways.

There was a plan to turn the chiltern lines into a coachway. But that was binned because coaches wont fit in a railway. Unless the coaches were restricted to slow speed and guided.

LT said at the time of designing the Victoria line that a tube line takes the same as an 11 lane motorway.

 

[bramling]

That would be the unachievable ideal. The best inflation rate is zero. That would involve no annual pay rises at all and nothing "going up" as a matter of course unless it had somehow got bigger or better. You would get a pay rise by getting a promotion.

Unfortunately, deflation is very harmful, and it's very hard to control inflation. Thus, typically we settle on a low single-figure rate of inflation as a "least worst", which is why we are where we are.

Zero inflation is absolutely not ideal, not in the real world anyway, and it has never been something aimed for. One good reason is that inflation erodes the real value of debt, which is seen as a good thing. Hence why 2% is seen as a good target to aim for.

 

[JonathanH]

Some level of inflation is good for the economy as well as it allows for some devaluation of stuff by keeping prices / wages constant where this is appropriate.

 

[Bald Rick]

Network Rail’s current ideas on how to reduce costs are to reduce the amount of routine scheduled infrastructure maintenance carried out by its front line staff by half (50%). And to remove thousands of infrastructure jobs. But no significant change to any of the organisation above the front line workers (in fact there could be around a hundred more “white collar” staff going on their current ideas).

sorry but this is plain wrong.

Parts of Network Rail have lost 20% of their non- front line staff in the past 12 months, indeed some parts are losing much more than this, particularly in management. Overall, thousands of people in management grades are leaving or have left.

 

[Annetts key]

sorry but this is plain wrong.

Parts of Network Rail have lost 20% of their non- front line staff in the past 12 months, indeed some parts are losing much more than this, particularly in management. Overall, thousands of people in management grades are leaving or have left.

But not in the operations or maintenance part of Network Rail.

 

[Bald Rick]

But not in the operations or maintenance part of Network Rail.

that depends on your definition of operations or maintenance. I know operations people who have gone.

 

[Ken H]

that depends on your definition of operations or maintenance. I know operations people who have gone.

I know in many walks of life the installation of modern kit has reduced maintenance. LED lights last far longer than other types so less need to change them. I am sure the railway will be using these savings in maintenance liabilities to cut costs.

 

[142blue]

Here we go. No news on ASLEF or TSSA as yet:

Campaigns

www.rmt.org.uk

Defend Rail Jobs, Pay and Conditions​

The RMT National Executive Committee has recently taken a decision that sets the union up for a campaign across Network Rail and the majority of Train Operating Companies to defend rail jobs, pay and conditions.

 

[Towers]

RMT in dispute with absolutely everyone shocker!

 

[Haywain]

I'd love to know which part of the rail industry is "making big profits".

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'd love to know which part of the rail industry is "making big profits".

The ROSCO's for a start.

 

[Horizon22]

Eh? Railway profits when most have been heavily subsidised? Job security (when no staff were furloughed)? Almost every TOC and NR?

Having a pay freeze isn't great when many other sectors are going up and inflation is the way it is - although railway staff have long had above-inflation pay rises in previous decades - so there is some merit there even if its a small rise, but otherwise it's going to be a self-immolation and may well speed up the progress of some of the things the RMT claims to be campaigning against.

More bombastic RMT rhetoric which once again devalues some potentially genuine concerns.

 

[STINT47]

If the industry is making big profits then I assume all government covid subsidiaries have finished and are in actual fact well on the way to being paid back.

If this is the case vote yes if not get a sense of perspective.

 

[duncanp]

It is noticeable that Transport for Wales, London Overground, Scotrail and Caledonian Sleeper are not included in the TOCs listed by the RMT.

I think the RMT is using the threat of industrial actions as a negotiating tactic in the run up to Great British Railways taking over.

They would like nothing more than to organise a strike to bring the national rail network to a complete standstill.

But they need to remember the effect of COVID-19 on people's travelling habits, particularly for commuting in and around the major cities.

 

[Horizon22]

It is noticeable that Transport for Wales, London Overground, Scotrail and Caledonian Sleeper are not included in the TOCs listed by the RMT.

I think the RMT is using the threat of industrial actions as a negotiating tactic in the run up to Great British Railways taking over.

They would like nothing more than to organise a strike to bring the national rail network to a complete standstill.

But they need to remember the effect of COVID-19 on people's travelling habits, particularly for commuting in and around the major cities.

Especially when traffic/passenger numbers are finally making a sustained rise as a % of pre-2020 numbers. Losing that momentum in terms of people returning to the railway would be fairly damaging.

 

[Deltic1961]

Yet another let's try and justify our own existence so members keep paying type of thing. Nothing new.

 

[Chucky]

The RMT seem to be involved in a lot of disputes at the moment that the government seem content to just let run and run without any attempt to resolve them. I'm not saying RMT don't have some genuine concerns, but the seemingly endless disputes they are involved in nationally and the industrial action they have so far taken seem to have achieved nothing. I get the feeling the government are playing a long game with regards to letting them strike as much as they like and grinding the membership down. From where I'm standing I think the RMT leadership are falling right into the trap.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The ROSCO's for a start.

Are you sure about that? Quite a lot of rolling stock have/will be going off lease when the ROSCO will have assumed new leases and thus continuing income (which will have been built into their accounts) for the expected life of the stock.

 

[Geeves]

ASLEF are busy getting their members rises so I don't see why the RMT can't ask for the same.

 

[Robertj21a]

The RMT seem to be involved in a lot of disputes at the moment that the government seem content to just let run and run without any attempt to resolve them. I'm not saying RMT don't have some genuine concerns, but the seemingly endless disputes they are involved in nationally and the industrial action they have so far taken seem to have achieved nothing. I get the feeling the government are playing a long game with regards to letting them strike as much as they like and grinding the membership down. From where I'm standing I think the RMT leadership are falling right into the trap.

I doubt that the government needs to intervene with any 'routine' union dispute. There's no need for them to be involved.

 

[ComUtoR]

ASLEF are busy getting their members rises so I don't see why the RMT can't ask for the same.

Do you actually understand the deal or just stirring the pot a little ?

 

[Horizon22]

ASLEF are busy getting their members rises so I don't see why the RMT can't ask for the same.

That is presumably part of a multi-year, pre-agreed deal? Much like how TfL had to honour their one.

 

[Geeves]

Do you actually understand the deal or just stirring the pot a little ?

And why should I not?

Seeing as this inevitably turns into a RMT bashing thread. It's clear the money is there. The railway is supposed to be a family not an us and them game.

 

[Lewlew]

And why should I not?

Seeing as this inevitably turns into a RMT bashing thread. It's clear the money is there. The railway is supposed to be a family not an us and them game.

I agree with this. If RMT actually joined in the conversations and put ideas forward instead of refusing anything that comes from evil management then things could actually progress and get better for everyone

 

[Clarence Yard]

It is not at all clear that “the money is there”. Existing deals are being honoured (such as the Elizabeth Line indexation) but new deals are going to be hard won, if at all.