Great Ticket Sale courtesy of Grant Shapps

[Starmill]

Well so far I've wasted £24 by buying tickets before the start of this promotion. It doesn't exactly encourage you to plan (and buy) ahead. I'm not going to check any more as it will only depress me.

Are you sure? It's usually possible to swap the the original tickets for vouchers, and book new ones at the cheaper price.

 

[trainophile]

Are you sure? It's usually possible to swap the the original tickets for vouchers, and book new ones at the cheaper price.

Is that complicated though? Some of them are for this coming Monday so I've probably left it too late anyway. Booked on Trainsplit.

 

[Starmill]

Is that complicated though? Some of them are for this coming Monday so I've probably left it too late anyway. Booked on Trainsplit.

It's completely up to you to accept the offer or not. With trainsplit you buy a new matching ticket and they'll refund an existing advance ticket. You are in time to do it for Monday until tomorrow at 1800. Obviously it can only be done where a cheaper ticket is available right now. https://refunds.trainsplit.com/

 

[trainophile]

Thanks. Tbh I never got around to doing that even when lockdowns prevented travel, I wasn't confident of doing it right, and in those cases obviously I wasn't buying a different ticket. Cost me quite a whack but I put it down to some people have lost a lot more in all sorts of ways.

Just out of curiosity could I claim on a standard class ticket that I've replaced with a first class one?

 

[bakerstreet]

Edit : sorry the below has already been suggested.

Well so far I've wasted £24 by buying tickets before the start of this promotion. It doesn't exactly encourage you to plan (and buy) ahead. I'm not going to check any more as it will only depress me.

I know you’ve not asked for advice but can you refund the ones you’ve bought under book with confidence and rebook the cheaper ones you may have found?

Advance Tickets​

Book with Confidence​ The rail industry have introduced an easement to the terms & conditions of Advance tickets sold by Train Operating Companies, to help you gain confidence in travelling by rail again. Between Monday 21 June 2021 and 30 September 2022, Advance tickets can be exchanged to travel on the same journey but at a different time or date, paying any difference in fare but fee-free or surrendered back to the retailer for a rail travel voucher which can be used on any future journey or purchase within 12 months.

Changing, Cancelling and Getting Refunds | National Rail

We know that plans can change, and you might need to reschedule or cancel your train journey. Whether you can change your train ticket, or receive a refund, depends on the type of ticket you have bought and where you bought it.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[trover]

Thanks. Tbh I never got around to doing that even when lockdowns prevented travel, I wasn't confident of doing it right, and in those cases obviously I wasn't buying a different ticket. Cost me quite a whack but I put it down to some people have lost a lot more in all sorts of ways.

Just out of curiosity could I claim on a standard class ticket that I've replaced with a first class one?

The rule is same origin, same destination and same route (including via __ and any TOC limitations); travel class or even railcard discount is probably ignored, but how it's implemented depends heavily on which retailer you booked with. I've tried replacing a 1st class ticket with a standard class, booked with TPE. Anyway you can still opt for rail travel voucher (not all retailer offer this) to book any ticket you desire.

 

[Haywain]

Book with Confidence is supposed to mean a full refund in the form of vouchers for a ticket you are not going to use. There is not supposed to be a restriction on how you spend the vouchers.

 

[py_megapixel]

Book with Confidence is supposed to mean a full refund in the form of vouchers for a ticket you are not going to use. There is not supposed to be a restriction on how you spend the vouchers.

Trainsplit are not a TOC, so have their own implementation rather than following the DfT one. I think it's understandable that, as they are effectively implementing this scheme of their own accord, they would like to ensure that the revenue remains with them where possible.

 

[Haywain]

Trainsplit are not a TOC, so have their own implementation rather than following the DfT one. I think it's understandable that, as they are effectively implementing this scheme of their own accord, they would like to ensure that the revenue remains with them where possible.

I appreciate the difference but surely the revenue is retained by only offering vouchers. It could be lost by giving a cash refund but that’s not on offer from what you say.

 

[OscarH]

The rule is same origin, same destination and same route (including via __ and any TOC limitations); travel class or even railcard discount is probably ignored, but how it's implemented depends heavily on which retailer you booked with. I've tried replacing a 1st class ticket with a standard class, booked with TPE. Anyway you can still opt for rail travel voucher (not all retailer offer this) to book any ticket you desire.

There are no restrictions on TrainSplit's book with confidence scheme that force you to book the same journey - that only applies for standard change of advance (after 1800 the day before).

 

[trover]

There are no restrictions on TrainSplit's book with confidence scheme that force you to book the same journey - that only applies for standard change of advance (after 1800 the day before).

I was talking about the scheme in general, it’s the way to get the original payment refunded from many of the TOC retailers. Yes you’re right, on Trainsplit we can rebook into any journey but only the lower fare will be refunded.

 

[gazzaa2]

The trains are packed out at weekends as it is.

How about restoring pre-pandemic levels of capacity first?

 

[nedchester]

I still think offering a railcard for 31-59 year olds would have been a better way to spread the load of potential overcrowding during the short period of this offer.

Encourages people to use rail without the “Big Bang” approach of this offer.

 

[trainophile]

The trains are packed out at weekends as it is.

How about restoring pre-pandemic levels of capacity first?

Perhaps if they only did the offer on reservable trains (genuine ones with seat reservations not just * ***), leaving a couple of dozen for full price walk-ups/open returns, and when they're gone they're gone. I think it's madness to include TfW for one, they are allegedly hell already.

 

[gazzaa2]

Perhaps if they only did the offer on reservable trains (genuine ones with seat reservations not just * ***), leaving a couple of dozen for full price walk-ups/open returns, and when they're gone they're gone. I think it's madness to include TfW for one, they are allegedly hell already.

On weekends trains are packed out, there's a chronic shortage of rolling stock on many TOC's and there's still a much reduced service from 2019 levels. There's also a lot of cancellations with staff illness etc and short forms.

How many of these 'great sale' ticketholders will be left standing on platforms?

This just puts me off traveling the next few weekends. It's bad enough now.

I still think offering a railcard for 31-59 year olds would have been a better way to spread the load of potential overcrowding during the short period of this offer.

Encourages people to use rail without the “Big Bang” approach of this offer.

Another problem with the "encourage people to use the railway" offers like this is a lot of the journeys will be so uncomfortable it will just put people off using them again and they'll stick to their cars in future. It's a bank holiday next weekend, if the weather's nice the overcrowding will be ridiculous.

At least restore 2019 service levels and strengthen the rolling stock on the routes that need it before putting an offer like this on. I'd understand it if people just weren't using trains after Covid but they're full as it is, at least on weekends.

 

[trainophile]

What on earth was Grant Shapps thinking of with this crazily timed stunt? Obviously he hasn't been near a train recently or he'd know how bad it currently is, without encouraging more cattle battery chickens passengers to cram onto already rammed, under-provided trains. Anyone would think Covid was a distant memory.

 

[JonathanH]

The trains are packed out at weekends as it is.

How about restoring pre-pandemic levels of capacity first?

I think the point is that not all trains are packed out at the weekends and by offering advances on targeted services they think they can encourage travel.

If they offer advance tickets on services already expected to be busy then, yes, the offer is inappropriate.

 

[Starmill]

If they offer advance tickets on services already expected to be busy then, yes, the offer is inappropriate.

There are very few trains left outside of London Overground / TfL Rail / Merseyrail / c2c where no Advance tickets at all are offered, indeed nearly every busy train will have some people holding Advance tickets. It's just the way it works these days, regardless of any sale. Even Thameslink are introducing Advance tickets now.

 

[JonathanH]

There are very few trains left outside of London Overground / TfL Rail / Merseyrail / c2c where no Advance tickets at all are offered, indeed nearly every busy train will have some people holding Advance tickets. It's just the way it works these days, regardless of any sale. Even Thameslink are introducing Advance tickets now.

Yes, sorry. I should have written 'sale' rather than 'advance'. I agree that most trains will have advance quotas, and indeed there will be busy trains where the number of advance tickets will almost entirely fill the capacity.

 

[gazzaa2]

I think the point is that not all trains are packed out at the weekends and by offering advances on targeted services they think they can encourage travel.

If they offer advance tickets on services already expected to be busy then, yes, the offer is inappropriate.

Not every train has to be packed to the rafters though. I tend to tailor my travel around slightly less busy times, so it's less claustrophobic and, nowadays, less of a Covid petri dish.

The dichotomy is they want more people on trains, which is fair enough, but passengers want to travel in more comfort than herded like cattle. It's overcrowding as well as pricing that keeps people in their cars.

If they want more passengers then strengthen the rolling stock where needed, restore pre-pandemic services (for starters) and employ more staff and treat them better so less trains are cancelled. Improve the service and they don't need to entice people with freebies and cheap offers.

 

[JonathanH]

Not every train has to be packed to the rafters though. I tend to tailor my travel around slightly less busy times, so it's less claustrophobic and, nowadays, less of a Covid petri dish.

The dichotomy is they want more people on trains, which is fair enough, but passengers want to travel in more comfort than herded like cattle. It's overcrowding as well as pricing that keeps people in their cars.

If they want more passengers then strengthen the rolling stock where needed, restore pre-pandemic services (for starters) and employ more staff and treat them better so less trains are cancelled. Improve the service and they don't need to entice people with freebies and cheap offers.

The railway has to make money though (to the extent that any residual subsidy is affordable) and that means trains have to have high loading factors, which is not happening across the board.

Complaining about pricing and capacity at the same time is a dichotomy itself as the business case for more rolling stock and services could only ever stack up if there is consistent round the clock demand that justifies it.

 

[Starmill]

The railway has to make money though (to the extent that any residual subsidy is affordable) and that means trains have to have high loading factors, which is not happening across the board.

Complaining about pricing and capacity at the same time is a dichotomy itself as the business case for more rolling stock and services could only ever stack up if there is consistent round the clock demand that justifies it.

It depends. There's actually a strong argument that large rises in capacity while real prices stay level or fall slightly is the route to efficiency. This is because while costs for diesel and rolling stock grow roughly in proportion, the other main element of cost, staff, doesn't grow at all if you double from three coaches to six.

 

[ChrisC]

Not every train has to be packed to the rafters though. I tend to tailor my travel around slightly less busy times, so it's less claustrophobic and, nowadays, less of a Covid petri dish.

The dichotomy is they want more people on trains, which is fair enough, but passengers want to travel in more comfort than herded like cattle. It's overcrowding as well as pricing that keeps people in their cars.

If they want more passengers then strengthen the rolling stock where needed, restore pre-pandemic services (for starters) and employ more staff and treat them better so less trains are cancelled. Improve the service and they don't need to entice people with freebies and cheap offers.

I’ve been avoiding travelling by train at weekends for months now. This is mainly because most of my journeys would be on overcrowded 2 carriage EMR or Northern trains. With so many short forms and cancellations I'm using my car far more often. I completely avoid using XC at the weekends for similar reasons.

Next month I have a hotel booked for 9 nights in Plymouth. I had deliberately arranged my booking to avoid weekend travelling from Nottingham to Plymouth and back on overcrowded XC trains. Now I’m hoping that the trains I am planning on travelling on midweek are not overcrowded with people using these cheap sale tickets. I don’t want to book advance tickets as I prefer the flexibility of being able to travel on any off peak train. I will be booking using Trainsplit and splitting at Cheltenham and Bristol to Tiverton Parkway. From Tiverton Parkway I intend to use an 8 Days in 15 Devon and Cornwall Rover, which will also be used on other days during my stay.

 

[PG]

Another problem with the "encourage people to use the railway" offers like this is a lot of the journeys will be so uncomfortable it will just put people off using them again and they'll stick to their cars in future. It's a

I could be getting this wrong but this strikes me now as Shapps' version of Sunak's "eat out to help out". Not a genuine solution for a problem more done so they can say they've done something.

Does make you wonder if these schemes will do more harm than good overall??

 

[miklcct]

I’ve been avoiding travelling by train at weekends for months now. This is mainly because most of my journeys would be on overcrowded 2 carriage EMR or Northern trains. With so many short forms and cancellations I'm using my car far more often. I completely avoid using XC at the weekends for similar reasons.

Next month I have a hotel booked for 9 nights in Plymouth. I had deliberately arranged my booking to avoid weekend travelling from Nottingham to Plymouth and back on overcrowded XC trains. Now I’m hoping that the trains I am planning on travelling on midweek are not overcrowded with people using these cheap sale tickets. I don’t want to book advance tickets as I prefer the flexibility of being able to travel on any off peak train. I will be booking using Trainsplit and splitting at Cheltenham and Bristol to Tiverton Parkway. From Tiverton Parkway I intend to use an 8 Days in 15 Devon and Cornwall Rover, which will also be used on other days during my stay.

The only services where I see overcrowding are short-formed services. All sensible services in my region are now running with full-length trains, i.e. 10 cars between Bournemouth and Waterloo, 9 cars on CrossCountry, 8 or 12 cars on the Portsmouth Direct Lines, etc.

Short trains are only used on regional services where ridership is low, such as Winchester - Poole stopping services.

 

[trainophile]

I wonder if he even consulted the TOCs before announcing this brainwave. Presumably they have to honour the discounts and claim them back from the Govt so you'd think they would have considered all the drawbacks.

 

[Haywain]

I wonder if he even consulted the TOCs before announcing this brainwave. Presumably they have to honour the discounts and claim them back from the Govt so you'd think they would have considered all the drawbacks.

This didn’t all happen at the drop of a hat. There was months of planning.

 

[Watershed]

This didn’t all happen at the drop of a hat. There was months of planning.

Though seemingly still not enough planning for all operators to release their tickets at the same time - meaning a number of people will have been overcharged, thinking they were getting Rail Sale fares when in fact they were normal fares.

 

[trainophile]

And thinking they might get a seat .

 

[trover]

And thinking they might get a seat .

They might, but some purchased well in advance, paying higher fares might not