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BR DMUs and EMUs proposed but never built

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AY1975

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Following on from the thread on BR loco plans that never happened at www.railforums.co.uk/threads/br-diesel-and-electric-locomotive-plans-that-never-happened.230760/ I wondered if there were many types of DMU or EMU that were proposed but never built.

This can also include further batches of existing unit classes that were planned but never built, or classes of which only a solitary prototype or small prototype fleet was built and a production series fleet was planned but never saw the light of day.

Again I am mainly interested in the BR era (1948-93) but this can also include examples from the pre-nationalisation or post-privatisation era.

Offhand I can think of four examples (well, four classes of unit) from the early 1990s, just before privatisation:

The Class 371, 381 and 471 Networker EMUs: according to Wikipedia the 371s were planned for Thameslink 2000, the 381s for the London Tilbury and Southend lines from Fenchurch Street and the 471s for the Kent Coast routes. The 471s were planned to have 1st class compartments in a side corridor layout, and I believe that a mock-up of the 471 was put on display on the concourse at London Victoria.

Another fleet of Networkers (can't remember what class they were to be known as) was planned for Crossrail before the Crossrail project was shelved in the early to mid 1990s.

If you include further batches of existing fleets, I seem to recall that BR planned to order a further fleet of 323s for West Yorkshire but that plan was abandoned because of privatisation. Instead West Yorkshire got ex-Network SouthEast Class 307s and 308s until the 333s were built in the early 2000s.

And if you include examples from the pre-nationalisation era, I believe that the LMS planned to rebuild Euston station in the early 1940s if WW2 hadn't happened, and as part of this scheme they were going to order a fleet of sliding door EMUs for the Watford DC lines. Of course, about 15 years later the DC lines got the slam-door 501s instead (and these were eventually replaced by sliding-door 313s in the mid-1980s).
 
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gg1

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Do sub-classes count?

The original proposal for Regional Eurostar services was for a sub-class of 373s with a driving cab at the inner end of each 9 coach half set, the full sets would split to serve multiple destinations. This was later changed to the 14 car sets which entered production, though of course never used for their intended purpose.
 

StephenHunter

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The HST fleet was intended to be about twice the size of what we actually got.

There was also the Class 210 DEMU protoype unit, rather similar to the 317s and 455s in apperance.
 

Magdalia

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The class 210 DEMU did not proceed beyond the prototype stage because BR lacked the funds for further investment.
 

davetheguard

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There were two class 210 DEMU prototypes built: one four car allocated to Reading; one three car allocated to Southall. They were based on the class 317 EMU bodyshell - they even had a lowered ceiling in one vehicle where the (unused) pantograph well was.

They were expensive to build, and were rejected as the replacements for the loco & coaches & class 117/119 DMUs used on the routes out of Paddington & Reading at the time.

In the end, as we now know, Network Turbos of classes 165 & 166 were selected as the second generation DMUs for these lines.
 

507020

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Another fleet of Networkers (can't remember what class they were to be known as) was planned for Crossrail before the Crossrail project was shelved in the early to mid 1990s.
They were Class 341s and the original specification of them formed the basis of the tender for the 345s.
If you include further batches of existing fleets, I seem to recall that BR planned to order a further fleet of 323s for West Yorkshire but that plan was abandoned because of privatisation. Instead West Yorkshire got ex-Network SouthEast Class 307s and 308s until the 333s were built in the early 2000s.
It’s strange that WYPTE didn’t get 323s really when you consider the timing of the electrification and that the 323s were built in Leeds!

There was also meant to the Class 316, an AC PEP derivative for the Manchester Picc-Vic tunnel.
 

175mph

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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the scrapped WCML Intercity 250 project yet.
 

Ken H

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The class 210 DEMU did not proceed beyond the prototype stage because BR lacked the funds for further investment.
Didnt MetCam build the 151, showing a modern classic DMU was possible, thereby killing the DEMU project.

I think some of the cars were used to replace damaged 317 cars.
 

Failed Unit

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Does the class 151 count (yes 2 were built) but never entered production. I liked it better then the 150s in terms of the layout.
 

Snow1964

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I have read somewhere that BR planned a version of the Clacton Express EMU (later class 309) in early 1960s for Bournemouth/Weymouth electrification.

But cost cutting, and Southern region traditionalism resulted in the mk1 design (modernised with modern chrome fittings) being chosen solution.
 

43096

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I have read somewhere that BR planned a version of the Clacton Express EMU (later class 309) in early 1960s for Bournemouth/Weymouth electrification.

But cost cutting, and Southern region traditionalism resulted in the mk1 design (modernised with modern chrome fittings) being chosen solution.
The Clacton 309s were basically a Mark 1 design!
 

contrex

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I have read somewhere that BR planned a version of the Clacton Express EMU (later class 309) in early 1960s for Bournemouth/Weymouth electrification.

But cost cutting, and Southern region traditionalism resulted in the mk1 design (modernised with modern chrome fittings) being chosen solution.

The Clacton 309s were a 'mk1 design'.
 

Taunton

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I have read somewhere that BR planned a version of the Clacton Express EMU (later class 309) in early 1960s for Bournemouth/Weymouth electrification.

But cost cutting, and Southern region traditionalism resulted in the mk1 design (modernised with modern chrome fittings) being chosen solution.
There were a range of variations on the Mk 1 design. The stock in 1964 was very different in construction terms from what was done in 1951.

The Clacton stock as built, also Mk 1, was regarded as very modern and the future. There was a painting done in about 1964 of what the ECML would look like once electrified, purporting to be I think at Grantham. It had a Class 86 loco in electric blue, and a Clacton unit-clone in maroon, but looking very shiny and stylish.
 

tomuk

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It’s strange that WYPTE didn’t get 323s really when you consider the timing of the electrification and that the 323s were built in Leeds!
It's because at the time the 323s were a complete disaster, their introduction was delayed due to various issues particularly with the Holec traction packages. Hunslet TPL the manufacturer was basically bankrupt and had sued Holec due to the faults. This had a knock-on effect on the 157s that Hunslet TPL were going to build too.
 

David Goddard

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Didnt MetCam build the 151, showing a modern classic DMU was possible, thereby killing the DEMU project.

I think some of the cars were used to replace damaged 317 cars.
MetCam did build the 151, which was trialled but the concept was not progressed, as stated above, but MetCamm did go on to build the excellent Class 156 units (114 sets)
The Class 210 vehicles saw a varied existance once the DEMU trial ended, with some cars used as testbed EMU vehicles (images with set no 316999 are actually Cl210 vehicles). Later in life two Class 210 cars were rebuilt as EMU centre cars to replace damaged cars from Class 455/9s (see vehicles 67400 in 5912 and 67301 in set 5913)
 

Strathclyder

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It's because at the time the 323s were a complete disaster, their introduction was delayed due to various issues particularly with the Holec traction packages. Hunslet TPL the manufacturer was basically bankrupt and had sued Holec due to the faults. This had a knock-on effect on the 157s that Hunslet TPL were going to build too.
The 157s were primarily intended for Strathclyde, weren't they?
 

AY1975

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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the scrapped WCML Intercity 250 project yet.
This thread is about DMUs and EMUs. Until I read the InterCity 250 entry on Wikipedia I actually thought the IC250 sets were going to be high speed EMUs but in fact they were going to be Class 93 locos with Mark 5 coaches and DVTs. They are mentioned in entries #15 and #17 in the thread on locos that were planned but never built at www.railforums.co.uk/threads/br-diesel-and-electric-locomotive-plans-that-never-happened.230760/
 

randyrippley

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Was there ever a plan to build a production batch of non-Pullman Blue Pullmans?
After spending all the cash designing them, just building five sets seems an incredible waste of cash
Would have been ideal for fast secondary routes

Would the intended Waterloo-Exeter turbostars have been additional 165/166 or a new model with a smaller loading gauge?
 

AY1975

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They were Class 341s and the original specification of them formed the basis of the tender for the 345s.
And of course somewhat controversially the 345s don't have toilets despite Crossrail services being planned to run all the way from Abbey Wood and Shenfield to Heathrow and Reading once the full Elizabeth Line service has been introduced.

Do you know if the 341s were planned to have toilets? If not they would have been the only units in the Networker family not to have them.
 

507020

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There were a range of variations on the Mk 1 design. The stock in 1964 was very different in construction terms from what was done in 1951.

The Clacton stock as built, also Mk 1, was regarded as very modern and the future. There was a painting done in about 1964 of what the ECML would look like once electrified, purporting to be I think at Grantham. It had a Class 86 loco in electric blue, and a Clacton unit-clone in maroon, but looking very shiny and stylish.
The AM9/309s were originally intended for the ECML, but when it wasn’t electrified, they along with their griddle hotplate service were diverted to one of the only electrified routes, that to Clacton.
It's because at the time the 323s were a complete disaster, their introduction was delayed due to various issues particularly with the Holec traction packages. Hunslet TPL the manufacturer was basically bankrupt and had sued Holec due to the faults. This had a knock-on effect on the 157s that Hunslet TPL were going to build too.
Which is a bit ridiculous when to this day they remain one of the better EMUs…
And of course somewhat controversially the 345s don't have toilets despite Crossrail services being planned to run all the way from Abbey Wood and Shenfield to Heathrow and Reading once the full Elizabeth Line service has been introduced.

Do you know if the 341s were planned to have toilets? If not they would have been the only units in the Networker family not to have them.
I don’t know. I’m not interested in toilets on trains. Neither of the trains in my profile picture have them!
 

AM9

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The AM9/309s were originally intended for the ECML, but when it wasn’t electrified, they along with their griddle hotplate service were diverted to one of the only electrified routes, that to Clacton.

Which is a bit ridiculous when to this day they remain one of the better EMUs…

I don’t know. I’m not interested in toilets on trains. Neither of the trains in my profile picture have them!
The main difference between the 309s and the BIG/CIGs was the front end, where the ac units had contoured front despite there being an inter-unit corridor connection. The BIG/CIGs had the usual slab front typical of so many EMUs before them. When it came to performance, there was a world of difference because 3rd rail traction was no it's limits on fast routes.
 

Strathclyder

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The so-called Strathclyde Sprinter, IIRC.
Ah yes, that rings a distant bell. One has to wonder what the DMU situation in Glasgow/Strathclyde would have been like if the 157s had actually been built and delivered (never mind running reliably lol).
 

gimmea50anyday

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Would the intended Waterloo-Exeter turbostars have been additional 165/166 or a new model with a smaller loading gauge?

i believe the WofE was planned to receive a diesel powered version of the 471 networker and class 171 springs to mind as a result. Of course instead some of the 158 build was diverted from regional railways (TPE spec) and modified to create the 159. Think this was a timing thing as 158s were available whereas the networker designs were still being developed and BR wanted shot of LHCS operations and in particular the 50s. Whats particularly ironic is the 159/1 are also ex TPE 158s, chosen on account of the 400hp cummins engines fitted compared to the 350hp cummins or perkins engines used on most of the 158 and on the 165 and 166 units
 
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