Closed lines for storage of rail stock

[Andy873]

I've really only have one thing I need to clear up now about my old line (Great Harwood loop line) - sorry it's this line again!

I have on very good authority that at Great Harwood (GH) in September 1965 around 120 wagons were removed from GH so the track removal could begin.

Now, there are two things to note:

1. The line West of Padiham closed November 1964 (almost a year before) i.e GH and Simnostone section.
2. I know from official BR records GH was only receiving 9 wagons per week (on average).

Question:
How could GH end up with 120 wagons between November '64 and September '65 when this section is closed to traffic?

Many of you have told me it was quite common to store withdrawn engines on closed lines. Did BR do something similar with wagons i.e. store some on closed lines? if so, it begs the question when is a closed line actually closed.

The fact that 120 wagons accumulated at GH suggests there must have been some moment along the line at GH.

The 120 wagons were stored in the carriage shed sidings. I have attached my own schematic diagram of GH (circa 1905 but the layout remained unchanged until closure).

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[Gloster]

Works and scrapyards cut old rolling-stock at a fairly steady rate, often because they only have a certain amount of siding space to do the work in. When there is a bulge in the amount of rolling-stock to be cut, or to be sold for cutting, (such as after Beeching) the vehicles have to go somewhere until it is known where they are to be sent. Unused lines or sidings are best as they can be left there until they go to meet the torch.

Closed may be seen as meaning for all commercial purposes (no goods traffic) and to the Operating Department. It is still owned by the railway, but is now totally in the hands of the Civil Engineer’s Department, which will be making arrangements to have the track lifted (eventually). However, in those days common sense applied and if the Mechanical Engineer’s Department needed places to store redundant stock and the Civil Engineer had places that were going to be disused for a while until they got around to lifting them, they would sort it out between themselves.

Movements would have been, effectively or even officially, treated the same as engineering trains in a Possession during engineering works. (In such circumstances normal signalling and working rules are suspended, and all movements take place under the instruction of a designated member of the Engineering Department’s staff.) The Operating Department would only have responsibility up to the beginning of the closed section, after which the Engineers had responsibility and could play about to their hearts’ content.

 

[D6130]

ISTR that many closed lines were used for the storage of redundant wagons in the early and mid-1960s, pending availability of space for scrapping at main works or scrap contractors. One such route was the ex-NER Eden Valley line between Penrith (Eden Valley Junction) and Appleby East and also the same company's Simpasture branch between Shildon and Stillington, which had been electrified on the 1.5 kv DC system between about 1915 and 1935.

 

[Andy873]

Thanks both of you.

These replies are valuable to me, I could only think GH was being used to store wagons there.

It's also an insight into different BR departments and who had / what authority, especially who planed the actual removal process.

With regards to wagons being scrapped, I know there were so many that for instance the Barry Island scrap yard was so inundated with wagons to get rid of they mainly concentrated on them and only got around to the steam locos when things were quieter - the reason why many locos were rescued.

I have always had a suspicion that BR didn't lift the line until after the summer timetable (due to it being a diversion route) I might be right or wrong on that - who knows? but it does give GH one final use before lifting the tracks.

Many, many thanks!!!
Andy.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The remaining track on the closed Dauntsey - Little Somerford section of the Malmesbury branch, which closed in 1933 ,was used for wagon and coach storage until lifted in 1961. Likewise the remaining stub from Holt Jct on the Devizes line.

 

[uglymonkey]

There are pictures of Lydford in Devon, with active trains calling at the station. (Closed 1968,) and scores of condemned wagons stored behind the

Station on a closed Launston branch (sp?)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The down line on the then double track Ardingly branch (off the Brighton Main Line) from Copyhold Junction towards Horsted Keynes was used for both storage of life-expired Kent Coast steam-era coaching stock in the late 1950s / early 1960s and also their electric replacements, I believe, with single line working on the remaining adjacent up line whilst it remained open to local traffic such as Horsted Keynes to Seaford electric services via Haywards Heath.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The down line on the then double track Ardingly branch (off the Brighton Main Line) from Copyhold Junction towards Horsted Keynes was used for both storage of life-expired Kent Coast steam-era coaching stock in the late 1950s / early 1960s and also their electric replacements, I believe, with single line working on the remaining adjacent up line whilst it remained open to local traffic such as Horsted Keynes to Seaford electric services via Haywards Heath.

i believe this was also used for storage of newly delivered CEP units too

 

[Taunton]

Gerry Fiennes wrote that, in WW2, there was a lot of wagon stock stored on the old line through Loanhead, near Edinburgh. It must have been adequately catalogued, because the military suddenly announced they wanted the one that was 484th down the line towards Peebles. It took apparently eight locomotives one Sunday to get it out!

 

[Irascible]

There are pictures of Lydford in Devon, with active trains calling at the station. (Closed 1968,) and scores of condemned wagons stored behind the

Station on a closed Launston branch (sp?)

As you queried it, Launceston - one of those placenames that looks like three syllables, but spoken Launce-ston.

 

[uglymonkey]

Indeed,

 

[70014IronDuke]

ISTR that many closed lines were used for the storage of redundant wagons in the early and mid-1960s, pending availability of space for scrapping at main works or scrap contractors.

My thoughts exactly.

There were dozens of wagons stored around Piddington Jcn* on the Bedford - Northampton branch in 1960-61 - and the branch wasn't even closed a the time! I think they made the 'main' branch single line at that point - the line with the wagons may have been part of a two-track section - or it may have been a case of two single line sections originally, and the stored wagons were on the Stratford-upon-Avon and Midland Junction Railway track.

IT is also a possibility - this vague memory has only now come to mind - that the wagons were part of the train that came off the track in a derailment that happened, I think, in 1959.

* EDIT - sorry, it was Ravenstone Wood Jcn. Piddington was just a station on the line.

 

[Taunton]

As you queried it, Launceston - one of those placenames that looks like three syllables, but spoken Launce-ston.

Laarn-st'n

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The down line on the then double track Ardingly branch (off the Brighton Main Line) from Copyhold Junction towards Horsted Keynes was used for both storage of life-expired Kent Coast steam-era coaching stock in the late 1950s / early 1960s and also their electric replacements, I believe, with single line working on the remaining adjacent up line whilst it remained open to local traffic such as Horsted Keynes to Seaford electric services via Haywards Heath.

i believe this was also used for storage of newly delivered CEP units too

Didn't I already say that?

 

[Snow1964]

Micheldever used to have a number of sidings (where the chalk hillside had been cut away to infill the river bed during building of Southampton new docks), these seem to store Southern region and ex Southern railway coaches for years (until about 1980?) until space could be found at Eastleigh works.

I believe the Shepperton branch also stored a lot during WW2 on one line, with the branch being run as single track. Which also explains why when the wartime station of Upper Halliford was built, to serve nearby factories, it only had one platform (a second platform was added 1946)

 

[StephenHunter]

The down line on the then double track Ardingly branch (off the Brighton Main Line) from Copyhold Junction towards Horsted Keynes was used for both storage of life-expired Kent Coast steam-era coaching stock in the late 1950s / early 1960s and also their electric replacements, I believe, with single line working on the remaining adjacent up line whilst it remained open to local traffic such as Horsted Keynes to Seaford electric services via Haywards Heath.

That's right. They had someone tasked with moving the CEPs around to stop them from seizing up.

 

[MadMac]

I’ve seen a picture somewhere of a load of old stock stored at Coalburn post-closure.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The down line on the then double track Ardingly branch (off the Brighton Main Line) from Copyhold Junction towards Horsted Keynes was used for both storage of life-expired Kent Coast steam-era coaching stock in the late 1950s / early 1960s and also their electric replacements, I believe, with single line working on the remaining adjacent up line whilst it remained open to local traffic such as Horsted Keynes to Seaford electric services via Haywards Heath.

Since the through line was closed in the mid 1960s, believe the Bluebell Railway have used the stub of the Ardingly line branch (at the Horsted Keynes end) for the storage of dilapidated old "heritage" rolling stock.

 

[Roger1973]

Part of the Greenwich Park branch was used for rolling stock storage between closure and the Lewisham Road - Nunhead part being connected to former SER lines Lewisham.

I have read somewhere that some stabled carriages rolled downhill in to Blackheath Hill tunnel and it was some time before anyone noticed they were missing, and some further time before anyone thought to look in the tunnel (there are assorted urban legends about 'a train' being lost / stuck / buried either in Blackheath Hill or one of the tunnels on the Crystal Palace (High Level) branch...)

 

[Irascible]

Laarn-st'n

Being the Devon end of Cornwall quite possibly "Laarnz'n", but let's not meander too far

Was there anything stored on the lne to Exeter Basin? I suspect small me's memory is playing tricks.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Was there anything stored on the lne to Exeter Basin? I suspect small me's memory is playing tricks.

Excess tar tanks and empty scrap wagons for Colas Roads/Pierce’s were often put in Alphington Road sidings until needed. It’s now an Aldi/Iceland.

 

[Taunton]

The down line on the then double track Ardingly branch (off the Brighton Main Line) from Copyhold Junction towards Horsted Keynes was used for both storage of life-expired Kent Coast steam-era coaching stock in the late 1950s / early 1960s and also their electric replacements, I believe, with single line working on the remaining adjacent up line whilst it remained open to local traffic such as Horsted Keynes to Seaford electric services via Haywards Heath.

I believe this was the cheapest electrification ever. The requirement was for services from Seaford to terminate at Haywards Heath, connecting into London trains, but there was no space for reversing facilities so it was extended to Horsted Keynes purely to turn round. There was no substation needed, as the one at Copyhold sufficed, just the conductor rails being screwed in over a couple of weekends. Of course, Horsted Keynes station is in the middle of nowhere, so the hourly trains pretty much ran empty for the 35 years or so of electrification.

 

[MP33]

When Princes Charles visited the area. The Royal Train was left in the recently closed Framlingham Station until Prince Charles was ready to depart.

 

[Rutland23]

While still open, the Paisley & Barrhead District Railway was used to store surplus wagons.

Whether this was a one-off, or a regular (summer time perhaps) occurrence , I do not know.

See here: https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/SPW022006

Regards

Ian

 

[DanNCL]

A fairly recent example was when withdrawn 373s were stored on the disused chord between HS1 and the Chatham Main Line. I think that was in 2016?

 

[Magdalia]

When Princes Charles visited the area. The Royal Train was left in the recently closed Framlingham Station until Prince Charles was ready to depart.

You are getting muddled up there.

Framlingham station closed to passengers in 1952, when Prince Charles was 4. The line closed to freight in 1965, when he was 17. His first Royal Train on his own was in 1968.

A Royal Train did visit the Framlingham branch in 1956, but it was for the Duke of Edinburgh. He stayed overnight in the Royal Train on the Framlingham branch on an official visit to Harwich and Lowestoft.

 

[Spartacus]

The Midland's Dewsbury Saville Town goods line was intended to be the first part of a line to, and through Bradford, as a direct link to the Settle - Carlisle from Royston, but never made it past Dewsbury. Built to main line standards, for much of it's short life (1906-1950) one line from Middlestown Junction (possibly the most pointless flying junction ever) towards Dewsbury was used to store rolling stock, while the branch was worked as a single line.

 

[Andy873]

It seems that storing of rail stock out of the way was becoming a common practice across the network.

I revisited the website that has photos of my old branch line and found one of interest...

If you look at this photo (link), you will see on the right hand side two rows of empty mineral wagons, so it seems BR were already starting to store wagons at Great Harwood carriage shed sidings. The photo is undated, but I would suggest it's probably 1964 (the last year of operation) as the carriage shed is now roofless.

Last Days of the North East Lancs Loop line - 45000GH - SteamingNorth.com ... (Click on a picture to open that album and then on a picture to enlarge it...........Pictures copyright of Author

www.steamingnorth.com

As a side point (if I may ask) if you are taking wagons down a closed line under the control of the engineering department how would you get back onto the live network?

You would want to inform Great Harwood Junction signal box (on the East Lancs line) as this signal box controlled access onto / off the branch line - telephone them from one of the boxes at GH when ready to return?

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[Clarence Yard]

A closed line is effectively sidings until it is handed over to the Civils or whoever for disposal.

The connections may either be clipped out of use or held operational until they are no longer required.

 

[Gloster]

As a side point (if I may ask) if you are taking wagons down a closed line under the control of the engineering department how would you get back onto the live network?

You would want to inform Great Harwood Junction signal box (on the East Lancs line) as this signal box controlled access onto / off the branch line - telephone them from one of the boxes at GH when ready to return?

Thanks,
Andy.

The Traffic Department only comes into it when a train goes in or out of the section that has become the responsibility of the Engineers Department. I am not sure about the rules then, but later on the limit of the Engineer’s area was marked by three detonators at 20 yard intervals and a red flag (daytime) or red light (nighttime); however, the habit of things to be nicked means that there would often be a somewhat simpler solution. In the signal box the lever for the signal leading on to the closed section might be disconnected or have a collar on it.

To go on to the closed section the train would arrive at the box, a member of the Engineer’s staff would meet it, tell the signalman that it could go onto the line, the signalman would authorise the train to pass the signal at Danger, and the protection would be removed (and replaced behind the train once it had passed). The member of Engineer’s staff didn’t have to travel on the train, but usually would.

To leave the closed section, the Engineer’s staff would authorise the train to go up to the protection, but no further. The Engineer’s staff or the train crew would then get permission from the signalman to pass the protection and then operate normally as they are now on a live railway. They might telephone to Great Harwood box from further along the line, but that would be for convenience’s sake: on the closed section of line all movements are the responsibility of the engineers.