Rail strikes discussion

[Ivor]

I posted yesterday post: #2260 re the ‘trickle down effect’ of the strike where being agency my shifts & other agency colleagues have had our shifts cancelled this week (not needed now) It is what it is.

I visited the station this morning I’ve been working at lately to pick up some personal bits because I’ve no idea when I’ll get shifts allocated again (after the strike ends hopefully)

The small hole in the wall platform take away has a sign up by the owner apologising saying that from opening today it was apparent it wasn’t viable to be open & quoting she just about got over Covid closure losses & not sure if she will continue if the situation goes beyond this week.

It occurred to me even more so how many independent coffee/cafe units, convenience stores, newsagents, retail in general in & around rail stations will be suffering big time.

I did say yesterday I didn’t want to see any industry have their package eroded but there will be ‘other casualties’ like it or not because of the strike.

Anyway for me & many agency railway staff the time has come to ‘hunt down’ alternative work.

As I say ‘the trickle down effect’

 

[142blue]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

What makes the railway think we deserve a better payrise than them, seeing as if someone were to suggest the answer was simply greed they’d likely get torn down immediately?

I also find it prominent that people are citing that they’re unable to earn enough to live on from the rises - and yet they’ll be stopping other key workers getting paid at all (let alone rises) by striking.

Meanwhile: Suggestions that Boris will change the law to make it legal for strikers to be replaced with agency workers. If it’ll bring back a railway service and the genuine workers still don’t want to provide one I’d be all for it.

Boris Johnson plans to break rail strikes by allowing use of agency workers | Rail transport | The Guardian

Unions condemn measure as potentially against international law as 40,000 staff prepare for first day of industrial action

amp.theguardian.com

Everyone should be pushing for an increase especially if the employer turns a profit

 

[RPI]

Let's face it, the only agency staff will be customer assist type staff, there won't be agency drivers, guards and signallers.

 

[CFRAIL]

We’ve all been told in this thread that people in this industry can be toxic enough as to bully, name-call or ignore colleagues who “cover where required” so would be reluctant to.


A key difference being those staff weren’t refusing to work though.

*Legally withdrawing their labour*

 

[SYorksKent]

My commute this morning using Southeastern and SWR has been quieter than expected. I suppose a lot of people are just working from home, cycled to work, or arranged a car share.

How nice for you. My part of south London has virtually no public transport apart from buses snarled in traffic. National rail lines all closed. And no Overground despite assurances it would be running.

 

[KM1991]

Andrew Haines, Network Rail CEO, has just said on sky news that Network Rail have offered much more then the 2% offer...

 

[windingroad]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

The thing that sets them aside is that they have a strong union willing to fight for fair pay and conditions. That's it. The groups you mention should get fair deals too, but it isn't the responsibility of railway workers to figure out how to make that happen.

I'm sure if those groups took part in industrial action you'd criticise them too, which tells me that your concern isn't actually people "suffering the cost of living increases".

 

[HL7]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

Why should railway staff accept accept a real terms pay cut in exchange for a raft of punitive changes to their terms and conditions?

This has no relevance to other workers apart from attempting to pit them off against one another and they’ll soon be dragging the very same NHS and the teachers that they’re bleating about right now through the mud when they decline the derisory pay offers being suggested now.

Meanwhile: Suggestions that Boris will change the law to make it legal for strikers to be replaced with agency workers. If it’ll bring back a railway service and the genuine workers still don’t want to provide one I’d be all for it.

Boris Johnson plans to break rail strikes by allowing use of agency workers | Rail transport | The Guardian

Unions condemn measure as potentially against international law as 40,000 staff prepare for first day of industrial action

amp.theguardian.com

Where is boris going to get agency drivers and signallers from? The reality here is that drivers and signallers will end up with separate deals and iI’ll be the lowest paid, non safety critical staff that are replaced by agency workers.

It would have no effect whatsoever in keeping trains running during industrial action but you’ll soon have the same daily Mail readers demanding that agency staff replace every other sector that engages in industrial action.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Well the turnout round my neck of the woods has been fantastic today, and the overwhelming majority of people who came near is where very supportive - even had local councillors and radio join us for a while.

I hope this is being seen in other areas, as I might be an eye opener for some on here who think the public wont support strikes.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Everyone should be pushing for an increase especially if the employer turns a profit

You say that but if you look at the financial mess the railway is in, workers for companies in a similar situation in other industries would be very worried about whether they would still have a job in a few months. They wouldn't be saying how much more are you going to pay me?

 

[adamello]

My commute this morning using Southeastern and SWR has been quieter than expected. I suppose a lot of people are just working from home, cycled to work, or arranged a car share.

My drive to the next town was notably more busier this morning.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well the turnout round my neck of the woods has been fantastic today, and the overwhelming majority of people who came near is where very supportive - even had local councillors and radio join us for a while.

im sure that’s the case, but very few people are going to make a trip to a picket line to have a moan.

 

[ar10642]

*Legally withdrawing their labour*

Semantics. They're not turning up for work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Semantics. They're not turning up for work.

It's quite important, because a strike is legally protected - up to 12 weeks (I think) they cannot be disciplined for it. The only remedy is not to pay them for the work not done.

 

[Clip]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

What makes the railway think we deserve a better payrise than them, seeing as if someone were to suggest the answer was simply greed they’d likely get torn down immediately?

No one think Railway workers deserve a better payrise than them and other public sector workers - everyone thinks they should all have an increase in wages - remember Boris did say he wanted the UK to be a highh wage place to be so lets have some higher wages please.

 

[spyinthesky]

Are the government aware that ongoing train strikes will cost the economy more than projected savings in the industry?

And the strikers are comfortable with this?

 

[SWTCommuter]

Where is boris going to get agency drivers and signallers from? The reality here is that drivers and signallers will end up with separate deals and iI’ll be the lowest paid, non safety critical staff that are replaced by agency workers.

The US air traffic controllers probably thought something similar when they went on strike in 1981.

On August 5, following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, the Reagan administration fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order,[14][15] and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the difficult task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired. Under normal conditions, it took three years to train new controllers.[2][page needed] Until replacements could be trained, the vacant positions were temporarily filled with a mix of non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, military controllers, and controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities...

The FAA had initially claimed that staffing levels would be restored within two years; however, it took closer to ten years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal.[2]

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Need2]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

You really are bitter aren’t you, why’s that?
What has other industries got to do with it?
Are the RMT asking for anything more than anyone else and to be treated differently?
Who has said that railway workers are ‘set aside’ from others?
I’m not RMT, I’m ASLEF and at the risk of sounding selfish I don’t care about other industries atm, they can fight there battles and we can fight ours.
Put some salt on that chip.

 

[KGX]

Well the turnout round my neck of the woods has been fantastic today, and the overwhelming majority of people who came near is where very supportive - even had local councillors and radio join us for a while.

I hope this is being seen in other areas, as I might be an eye opener for some on here who think the public wont support strikes.

Anecdotally, I’ve never seen so much support for a rail strike. In my circles, that’s because it’s just another excuse to WFH & people are discreetly saying that they hope the strikes continue. It’s not like a pre-covid strike.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The US air traffic controllers probably thought something similar when they went on strike in 1981.

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And ATC quality in the US suffered for well over a decade.

 

[GeordieO]

On GB News now, a private barrister has said those publicly funded barristers who have voted for industrial action have been offered a 15% rise but are wanting a 25% pay rise.
So if there is enough money in the Treasury for a 15% pay rise, you see where the RMT are coming from when the purse strings have been closed by Sunak and co for the railway workers.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

What makes the railway think we deserve a better payrise than them, seeing as if someone were to suggest the answer was simply greed they’d likely get torn down immediately?

I also find it prominent that people are citing that they’re unable to earn enough to live on from the rises - and yet they’ll be stopping other key workers getting paid at all (let alone rises) by striking.

Meanwhile: Suggestions that Boris will change the law to make it legal for strikers to be replaced with agency workers. If it’ll bring back a railway service and the genuine workers still don’t want to provide one I’d be all for it.

Boris Johnson plans to break rail strikes by allowing use of agency workers | Rail transport | The Guardian

Unions condemn measure as potentially against international law as 40,000 staff prepare for first day of industrial action

amp.theguardian.com

“Boris” isn’t your friend. He isn’t any worker’s friend. Trade Unions won people the entitlement to rest days, overtime pay, paid holiday, sick pay, redundancy pay and every other worker right that people enjoy.

Johnson would love to end all that. He represents his donors, the super rich who want to get away with paying people as little as possible and to work them into the ground.

Good on the RMT for fighting these punitive T&C changes and chicken feed payments.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

You really are bitter aren’t you, why’s that?
What has other industries got to do with it?
Are the RMT asking for anything more than anyone else and to be treated differently?
Who has said that railway workers are ‘set aside’ from others?
I’m not RMT, I’m ASLEF and at the risk of sounding selfish I don’t care about other industries atm, they can fight there battles and we can fight ours.
Put some salt on that chip.

Many many bitter people here I try not to let it get to me but the vitriol and pure hatred spewed from some members is horrible and those same people love to go on about strikers being bullies etc.

 

[Exscrew]

Many many bitter people here I try not to let it get to me but the vitriol and pure hatred spewed from some members is horrible and those same people love to go on about strikers being bullies etc.

Completely agree mate.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You really are bitter aren’t you, why’s that?
What has other industries got to do with it?
Are the RMT asking for anything more than anyone else and to be treated differently?
Who has said that railway workers are ‘set aside’ from others?
I’m not RMT, I’m ASLEF and at the risk of sounding selfish I don’t care about other industries atm, they can fight there battles and we can fight ours.
Put some salt on that chip.

I’m sure at this point you just have a copy and paste response at the ready for those that disagree with you; there’s a running pattern with you calling everyone bitter.

No one has said they’re set aside; the point is that all other industries seem to acknowledge at the moment the economy is badly damaged; the country cannot afford to give immense pay rises at the moment and that is due to COVID, the Russian-Ukranian situation, etc. And it sucks, but the aforementioned industries understand why this is rather than causing national chaos. My query was why the railway must be different.

Your last comments highlight my points further, your stubborn and defensive attitude and childish remarks such as that last one will get you nowhere, especially you are responding to a query of mine, not a statement.

 

[DelayRepay]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

I may be wrong, but I suspect most railway workers don't actually think they deserve a bigger pay rise than any of the other people you mention. I think most railway workers would agree that NHS staff etc deserve a pay rise that reflects the cost of living too.

But the railway workers can't really do much to influence pay in other sectors.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Many many bitter people here I try not to let it get to me but the vitriol and pure hatred spewed from some members is horrible and those same people love to go on about strikers being bullies etc.

This post makes no sense. Are you suggesting that questioning the strike - or even disagreeing with it - is the same as intimidating, ignoring or ganging up on colleagues that choose not to strike? The latter is bullying.

The former most certainly isn’t. As for hatred, there’s most certainly none from me; I simply like to know why these things take place particularly as they affect me (both as a passenger - and a railway worker concerned about these bullying allegations against strike breakers), so please do not throw the “hate” tag around in such a silly, immature way as if anything it’s insulting to those on the opposing end of genuine hate.

 

[pemma]

On GB News now, a private barrister has said those publicly funded barristers who have voted for industrial action have been offered a 15% rise but are wanting a 25% pay rise.
So if there is enough money in the Treasury for a 15% pay rise, you see where the RMT are coming from when the purse strings have been closed by Sunak and co for the railway workers.

When was their last pay rise? If they've had pay freezes for 10 years then a 25% pay rise now would be less than 2% every year for the last 10.

How many people are affected? And how much would the pay rise cost? I would guess rail workers make up a far greater number of people than publicly funded barristers.

Didn't I also read something about them having to do unpaid work due to government cuts to legal aid?

Be careful what comparisons you make.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I may be wrong, but I suspect most railway workers don't actually think they deserve a bigger pay rise than any of the other people you mention. I think most railway workers would agree that NHS staff etc deserve a pay rise that reflects the cost of living too.

But the railway workers can't really do much to influence pay in other sectors.

As I have said, I do not take from the strike that the railway workers want a bigger pay rise than other public sector. I take from it that the railway workers differ in that while everyone wants one, most industries are accepting the difficulties and circumstances of the country and economy at present and not causing issues about one at the moment, and I wondered why that was.

 

[Starmill]

On GB News now, a private barrister has said those publicly funded barristers who have voted for industrial action have been offered a 15% rise but are wanting a 25% pay rise.
So if there is enough money in the Treasury for a 15% pay rise, you see where the RMT are coming from when the purse strings have been closed by Sunak and co for the railway workers.

Barristers are paid fees, not salaries, as they're not employed by the Court or another government body. This is a rather different situation from someone who is employed by a TOC or Network Rail.

An independent criminal legal aid review gave the government a recommendation to increase fees by 15%. This has as yet not been offered. Since 2004 the budget for legal aid has been reduced in real terms by around 45%.