First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[Snow1964]

Was thinking of the one by the United Church. I think they were obliged to let the council change the number on the digital stops, hence no Discover branding either.

In next few days someone has to drive to all the stops on D1 and remove the temporary notices regarding diversion to avoid Winsley closure.

Would be a good opportunity to update the timetables, signs and remove the remaining notices about D1X ending (which finished 8 months ago).

But I wouldn't be surprised if they miss a few stops and leave out of date timetables etc again.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Good news if the drivers are TUPEing - looking in from the outside it isn't 100% clear what the actual legal setup is (and it doesn't need to be either) and whether TUPE would or could be happening...

Can you reveal whether the existing vehicles will also come across? Again, how the legal / lease arrangements may impact any move isn't visible externally (and doesn't need to be!)?

Yes, the vehicles are coming across to us - some will go to Hengrove because we just don’t have the space for them at Lawrence Hill.

I’m hoping to join in the mass move on Friday if allowed, will happily visit Parson Street

The legal side of things is that First have the contract, but it was sub-contracted to HCT Group, as I think competition rules didn’t allow us to have all the Metros? I’m not too sure on that last point, it was an urban myth when I was at Stagecoach…

 

[-Colly405-]

Yes, the vehicles are coming across to us - some will go to Hengrove because we just don’t have the space for them at Lawrence Hill.

I’m hoping to join in the mass move on Friday if allowed, will happily visit Parson Street

The legal side of things is that First have the contract, but it was sub-contracted to HCT Group, as I think competition rules didn’t allow us to have all the Metros? I’m not too sure on that last point, it was an urban myth when I was at Stagecoach…

Presumably the driver rosters will all need to change, as Parson St is the main changeover point, I think (it certainly used to be!). Seems a pity that the gas fuelling ability at Parson St will become redundant, unless some deal is done for it...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, the vehicles are coming across to us - some will go to Hengrove because we just don’t have the space for them at Lawrence Hill.

I’m hoping to join in the mass move on Friday if allowed, will happily visit Parson Street

The legal side of things is that First have the contract, but it was sub-contracted to HCT Group, as I think competition rules didn’t allow us to have all the Metros? I’m not too sure on that last point, it was an urban myth when I was at Stagecoach…

Presumably the driver rosters will all need to change, as Parson St is the main changeover point, I think (it certainly used to be!). Seems a pity that the gas fuelling ability at Parson St will become redundant, unless some deal is done for it...

Urban myth it is. Anyone could use the Metrobus infrastructure if they so wished as long as they meet the criteria. Obviously, WECA (West of England Combined Authority)were keen for operators to step up and provide services. I've never been told why the m1 arrangement happened but wonder if it was because of the restriction on funds in First at the time. It was easier to get a friendly partner to stump up the funds and do the work!

Also, just a small point or two. TUPE would apply if the CT (community transport) staff haven't been made redundant, are predominantly allocated to that service, and the operations are transferred to First, which seeing as it is sub-contracted would be difficult to argue against. In addition, it may be that vehicles were purchased or leased by CT? I don't know but even if they were leased, they have to sit on the balance sheet as an asset. There is also nothing to have stopped them being bought by CT and then, when the financials troubles emerged, from doing a sale and leaseback on them!

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

In next few days someone has to drive to all the stops on D1 and remove the temporary notices regarding diversion to avoid Winsley closure.

Would be a good opportunity to update the timetables, signs and remove the remaining notices about D1X ending (which finished 8 months ago).

But I wouldn't be surprised if they miss a few stops and leave out of date timetables etc again.

That’s a council job, probably sub-contracted

Urban myth it is. Anyone could use the Metrobus infrastructure if they so wished as long as they meet the criteria. Obviously, WECA were keen for operators to step up and provide services. Never been told why the m1 arrangement happened but wonder if it was because of the restriction on funds in First at the time. It was easier to get a friendly partner to stump up the funds and do the work!

Also, just a small point or two. TUPE would apply if the CT staff haven't been made redundant, are predominantly allocated to that service, and the operations are transferred to First, which seeing as it is sub-contracted would be difficult to argue against. In addition, it may be that vehicles were purchased or leased by CT? I don't know but even if they were leased, they have to sit on the balance sheet as an asset. There is also nothing to have stopped them being bought by CT and then, when the financials troubles emerged, from doing a sale and leaseback on them!

A lot of CT drivers are nominally on Metrobus, as a lot of the tendered work is interworked duty-wise with the m1 - especially when the m1 requires a PVR (peak vehicle requirement) of around 6 million vehicles (around 12-16, if I remember correctly).

Again, the vehicles are definitely being transferred to First - and I believe the gas point at Parson St is ours too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There's an old bus stop flag in Chippenham between the railway station and the town bridge which still has the First logo on it, there hasn't been any First services to Chippers for a good few years now. There's probably a good few old flags along the old D3 route between Bath and Melksham before First threw the towel in, that's presuming First did replace the generic Wiltshire Council style flags in favour of the Discover style that were introduced when the D1, D2 and D3 replaced the 265, 267 and 271/272.

There are loads of First branded flags in Somerset and Wiltshire after service cuts - in fact, there's at least three original Badgerline flags.

The former D3 route lost its Discover flags as Faresaver went out and removed them all, replacing them with their own ones. However, you can see plenty of them still on the 24 route where the D1 was pulled. That, and you can find plenty of other First hidden around TrowVegas such as on Frome Road where they are still "Transforming Travel"

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Again, the vehicles are definitely being transferred to First - and I believe the gas point at Parson St is ours too.

That will mean an end to double-deck operation on the 505 and 516 then (assuming the routes continue to run).

 

[-Colly405-]

That will mean an end to double-deck operation on the 505 and 516 then (assuming the routes continue to run).

If they stay with BCT, yes, but might they also move to other providers?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Avon are seeking replacements for the 11, 12 and 20 in Bath and the 82 in Norton, but haven't asked all operators, just their favourites.

I thought their favourites were Stagecoach and First? I assume you mean CT Coaches and Libra? I suspect that the plan (!) is for some more 16 seat Sprinters to do the 11/12 and 82. Certainly, First will have some Solos coming free.

Interesting to see what will happen with the former CT Plus tendered routes in Bristol. First are clearly sacrificing some of their routes anyway, and Stagecoach has been possibly even worse. I mean, we could see Eurotaxis return - something to gladden the heart of those who remember their winning of various First routes in c.2006!

 

[Snow1964]

Avon are seeking replacements for the 11, 12 and 20 in Bath and the 82 in Norton, but haven't asked all operators, just their favourites.

Bath and Avon Council have launched a survey into the Broken bus network. They don’t directly control it, but hope to influence WECA (West of England combined authority) who have a say

The Leader and Deputy Leader of Bath & North East Somerset Council have expressed their dismay at planned cuts to bus services serving the area and have called for a complete rethink of the ‘broken’ bus system.

The West of England Metro Mayor, Dan Norris, has informed the council that, from October 2022, a number of bus services across Bath and North East Somerset are planned to be cut. The services expected to be affected include bus numbers 11, 12, 20, 22, 42, 82, 171, 172 and 178, although some cuts will be mitigated by re-routed services and a proposed new service connecting Midsomer Norton, Paulton and Bristol.

Council calls for radical reform to ‘broken’ bus services after proposed cuts announced | Newsroom | Bath & North East Somerset Council

The Leader and Deputy Leader have expressed their dismay at planned cuts to bus services serving the area and have called for a complete rethink of the ‘broken’ bus system.

newsroom.bathnes.gov.uk

link to survey is below

Free Online Survey Software by SurveyMonkey: Closed Survey

This survey is currently closed. Please contact the author of this survey for further assistance.

www.surveymonkey.co.uk

 

[Citistar]

I thought their favourites were Stagecoach and First? I assume you mean CT Coaches and Libra? I suspect that the plan (!) is for some more 16 seat Sprinters to do the 11/12 and 82. Certainly, First will have some Solos coming free.

Stagecoach are already overstretched and First are refusing tendered work, but i'm sure they will have been offered to them. I've seen the email which was sent to "operators", but who knows which operators that includes? You might have thought that an operator with three discs and not much to do might be offered some work, but clearly they're not that serious about covering it.

Sprinters would probably be ideal for 11/12 (and allow an hourly service with one bus), but they wouldn't come close to addressing the school peak need that the 82 now has because First can't seem to get the 171/172/178 to run at the right times. 178 could probably have earned an extra £200 a day just by serving Norton Hill School properly.

Interesting to see what will happen with the former CT Plus tendered routes in Bristol. First are clearly sacrificing some of their routes anyway, and Stagecoach has been possibly even worse. I mean, we could see Eurotaxis return - something to gladden the heart of those who remember their winning of various First routes in c.2006!

They've been pretty lacklustre on the 672 as well. Buses dawdling around on main roads at 15mph because the timetable is so slack and zero effort made to engage with the local communities. At least they seem to be vaguely in the right places at the right times on their current contracts, which certainly wasn't the case when they took on the 585-7 and evening 504, 518 and 552.

 

[Class 33]

The BBC Points West News bulletin this morning said that First would confirm which services are being cut later today. Nothing from them so far. Doesn't look like it will be today! Probably won't be till Friday, and chances are it will be all the services that are predicted to be axed will be axed! Though haven't there been times in the past when some services have been predicted to be axed, and then they're not axed after all?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

There are loads of First branded flags in Somerset and Wiltshire after service cuts - in fact, there's at least three original Badgerline flags.

The former D3 route lost its Discover flags as Faresaver went out and removed them all, replacing them with their own ones. However, you can see plenty of them still on the 24 route where the D1 was pulled. That, and you can find plenty of other First hidden around TrowVegas such as on Frome Road where they are still "Transforming Travel"

You can add a fourth Badgerline flag, as there's one between Quemerford and Calne. When was the last time that Badgerline / First ran anything that way?

As for the Faresaver replacement flags, I wonder what First did with the generic Wiltshire ones as they could have simply been reinstalled and the Discover branded flags retained as spares. The great thing about the Wiltshire flags is the space next to the Traveline logo where an operator could stick their own logo in place of where First's logo is, Faresaver have missed a blinder by now stickering over any that are left along their routes, providing that they've got permission from Wiltshire Council to do so.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You can add a fourth Badgerline flag, as there's one between Quemerford and Calne. When was the last time that Badgerline / First ran anything that way?

That was one of the three! I think Badgerline stopped running the 233 in c.1995 when they lost under tender to Minerva Travel; they definitely still did it in 1994 when I travelled on a Badgerline VR!

As for the Faresaver replacement flags, I wonder what First did with the generic Wiltshire ones as they could have simply been reinstalled and the Discover branded flags retained as spares. The great thing about the Wiltshire flags is the space next to the Traveline logo where an operator could stick their own logo in place of where First's logo is, Faresaver have missed a blinder by now stickering over any that are left along their routes, providing that they've got permission from Wiltshire Council to do so.

First replaced the Wiltshire Council ones - Faresaver merely replaced the Discover ones between Urchfont and Box.

On the other routes that Faresaver have taken over from First, they've either overstuck the First logo (as in Studley Green)...or they've missed them (as in Hilperton)!

 

[820KDV]

I knew the person who (amongst other tasks) fitted flags for Wiltshire Council, and the Calne / Quemerford one, which was originally printed with the BRISTOL name, but subsequently had BATH and then Badgerline stuck over it, had, due to its longevity, been a topic of conversation between us at one point. It was his local bus stop and he deliberately left it in place for old times sake. Sadly, he lost his long battle with cancer last week, so it will be someone else who will, one day, replace it.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Hello all,

Do hope you're all well!

I feel I've missed out a lot! 126 going, X5 being amended for the umpteenth time? Golly!

Waiting for them to say they're scrapping Metrobus next

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I knew the person who (amongst other tasks) fitted flags for Wiltshire Council, and the Calne / Quemerford one, which was originally printed with the BRISTOL name, but subsequently had BATH and then Badgerline stuck over it, had, due to its longevity, been a topic of conversation between us at one point. It was his local bus stop and he deliberately left it in place for old times sake. Sadly, he lost his long battle with cancer last week, so it will be someone else who will, one day, replace it.

Interesting story, and sorry to hear about your friend. Big C is a bitch (pardon my language)

 

[-Colly405-]

Hello all,

Do hope you're all well!

I feel I've missed out a lot! 126 going, X5 being amended for the umpteenth time? Golly!

Waiting for them to say they're scrapping Metrobus next

We are in interesting (and not necessaerily in a good way!) times...

 

[Class 33]

Hello all,

Do hope you're all well!

I feel I've missed out a lot! 126 going, X5 being amended for the umpteenth time? Golly!

Waiting for them to say they're scrapping Metrobus next

How do you know the 126 is definitely being axed, and the X5 being amended? I can't see any news that the expected cuts are definitely going ahead or not. There was a news report on the main BBC Points West programme last night, saying First have confirmed which bus services will still be running and those that won't be running from October. Yet apart from it appearing to mention the Y3, Y4 & Y5 will be axed, there was no mention of what other services will be axed! D'uh BBC Points West, why didn't you tell us in your report?! I also can't see any news about this on the Bristol Post & Bristol World websites. So the wait goes on!

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

How do you know the 126 is definitely being axed, and the X5 being amended? I can't see any news that the expected cuts are definitely going ahead or not. There was a news report on the main BBC Points West programme last night, saying First have confirmed which bus services will still be running and those that won't be running from October. Yet apart from it appearing to mention the Y3, Y4 & Y5 will be axed, there was no mention of what other services will be axed! D'uh BBC Points West, why didn't you tell us in your report?! I also can't see any news about this on the Bristol Post & Bristol World websites. So the wait goes on!

The new registrations are appearing (slowly) on the Traffic Commissioner's website!

There’s the new 47 for example: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/600846/

X5, finally confirming (so I don’t leak things!) that it will go to Marine Parade, and not terminate at Worle Interchange:

Vehicle Operator Licensing - GOV.UK

www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk

Give it a couple of days to show up in BODS (bus open data service), and then to be reflected on bustimes etc.

Mod note - Please refrain from using jargon without defining what it means. Not everyone who reads this section of the forum is aware of industry terms and we must bear this in mind when posting. Thanks

 

[-Colly405-]

I see that the 72 is shown as a Variation rather than the cancellation the media mentioned. Presumably the 72a is still going though ..

Vehicle Operator Licensing - GOV.UK

www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk

 

[ValleyLines142]

How do you know the 126 is definitely being axed, and the X5 being amended? I can't see any news that the expected cuts are definitely going ahead or not. There was a news report on the main BBC Points West programme last night, saying First have confirmed which bus services will still be running and those that won't be running from October. Yet apart from it appearing to mention the Y3, Y4 & Y5 will be axed, there was no mention of what other services will be axed! D'uh BBC Points West, why didn't you tell us in your report?! I also can't see any news about this on the Bristol Post & Bristol World websites. So the wait goes on!

I don't, I'm just observing what has been discussed on this thread

 

[Whiteway215]

I see on Traveline the timetable for the Bath 22 only goes up to 24 September.
That is around the date the Uni term starts so presumably the 22 will be withdrawn then rather than continuing until 9 October.
It will be interesting to see how much the U1 timetable is enhanced from the new Uni term.

 

[Class 33]

Full list of cuts and changes at last made public! I'm only on my phone so can't copy and paste. But the details are now on the Bristol World website.

72 not being scrapped, although the 72A is. Saturday 71 also being scrapped.

Interestingly though the 17 and Y6 are being extended from southmead to Bristol bus station via Gloucester Road!

 

[Whiteway215]

Full list of cuts and changes at last made public! I'm only on my phone so can't copy and paste. But the details are now on the Bristol World website.

72 not being scrapped, although the 72A is. Saturday 71 also being scrapped.

Interestingly though the 17 and Y6 are being extended from southmead to Bristol bus station via Gloucester Road!

Bristol World only reporting changes for Bristol area, not surrounding area cuts.

 

[Volvodart]

FIRST REVEAL WHICH BRISTOL BUS SERVICES WILL BE SCRAPPED

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/first-reveal-which-bristol-bus-services-scrapped/

Falling passenger numbers and “acute” driver shortages are behind the decision by First to scrap a number of bus services across the Bristol area.


First West of England managing director Doug Claringbold said that “the very last thing any transport operator wants to do is reduce or cut any services”.

“We recognise the impact these changes will have on some of our communities and we are truly sorry for those who will be affected.”

From October 9, a number of services will be scrapped and others reduced.

Claringbold added: “We had high hopes that, as we moved beyond the pandemic and Covid restrictions, we would see a stronger recovery in bus use.

“Unfortunately, the world has changed more than we predicted and we are still seeing a significantly lower level of bus use, as well as different travel patterns across our network.

“On top of this, like the rest of the bus industry and other sectors, we are operating against the backdrop of rising business costs and labour shortages that are particularly acute in our area.

“Our data shows that passengers do not use these services in sufficient numbers and are unlikely to return in the future.

“Along with the significant driver shortages, this means we simply have no choice but to withdraw or reduce those services and ensure we focus on running buses where there are enough customers travelling.”

These are the affected services:

Bristol and South Gloucestershire
Services 5, 72a, 96, 178, X2, Y3, Y4 and Y5 are withdrawn.
A new service 47 will provide a partial replacement for services 5, Y3, Y4 and Y5
Service 379 will provide a partial replacement for service 178
No more Sunday services on 12 and 622
17 will extend from Southmead Hospital to Bristol Bus Station via Gloucester Road
36 will terminate at St Anne’s
48a will increase in frequency from September 19 for the start of the new academic year at UWE
70 will extend to terminate at Bristol Temple Meads
71 will be withdrawn and replaced with Service 74, which will operate between UWE, Frenchay Campus and Bristol city centre
One journey in each direction on service 349 will extend to Midsomer Norton for students attending St Brendan’s College
A1 will increase in frequency
There will be an additional service A3 journey departing at 2.15am from Weston-super-Mare
m3 will double in frequency to every 10 minutes, Monday to Friday, between UWE, Frenchay Campus and Bristol city centre from September 19
Three m3x journeys will be introduced for the afternoon/early evening peak between Bristol city centre and Emersons Green
T1 will now terminate at Bristol Bus Station
U1 will resume from September 19 for the start of the new academic year at the University of Bristol
U3 will be reintroduced from September 19 to provide late night Monday to Saturday journeys between the city centre and UWE via the M32
Service X5 will no longer continue to Bristol. Passengers are advised to change to the X4 in Portishead to continue their journey to Bristol
Y1 will now terminate at Bristol Bus Station
Y6 will extend from Southmead Hospital to Bristol Bus Station via Gloucester Road


Bath and North East Somerset
Services 22, 42 and 178 will be withdrawn
379 will replace service 171 and provide a partial replacement for 178
Service 4 journeys will be extended to Odd Down Park and Ride to cover the loss of Service 42.
2 will increase in frequency
3 will no longer serve Elmhurst estate
4, 4a and 4b will no longer serve the full length of Eastfield Avenue due to ongoing problems with the road surface
8 will reduce in frequency
First will no longer operate 11, 12, 20 and 82 services
172 will operate hourly
174 will have a revised timetable and will serve Chilcompton on Sundays
D2 Sunday frequency will be reduced to every two hours with a reduced evening service
U1, U2 and U5 will increase in frequency for the start of the new academic year at the University of Bath and Bath Spa University
North Somerset and Somerset
Services 126 and X2 are withdrawn.
1 and 20 will have their normal winter changes, with reduced frequencies and no Sunday service
7 will extend to additionally serve Weston General Hospital
X5 will no longer operate to Bristol, instead operating from Weston-super-Mare to Portishead via Clevedon

 

[freetoview33]

FIRST REVEAL WHICH BRISTOL BUS SERVICES WILL BE SCRAPPED

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/first-reveal-which-bristol-bus-services-scrapped/

Very odd changes with the 17 especially

 

[WelshBluebird]

Do the other cuts in general reduce the frequency of services along the Gloucester Road corridor? If so I would assume the change to the 17 and Y6 is to try to make that back up. If not then who knows!

 

[freetoview33]

Do the other cuts in general reduce the frequency of services along the Gloucester Road corridor? If so I would assume the change to the 17 and Y6 is to try to make that back up. If not then who knows!

Probably for operation reasons!

 

[Private Baxter]

I had a go on the 126 the other day. Firstly, I have never been a regular user of the 126, and can probably count the number of times I have used it on one hand. But it is obviously an important service for many people, and I am quite saddened that this route is going, as it will leave that entire section of the network cut off. I had really hoped it could be saved. My service wasn't particularly busy, but then mid afternoon journey (14:45 ex Wells) on a Tuesday in August probably never was. And the use of deckers has never really been needed, but I know there are some very busy ones that they operate. That said, the 126 is, I think underrated in terms of scenery, and I really enjoyed seeing it from the upper deck. It's a real shame the planned Strawberry Route scheme never came to fruition. (Pun sort of intended).

On a seperate note, I notice Yeovil are now using deckers on the 77 (or at least the last two I have seen anyway), including one of the ex Excel E400s from Weston.