Why the bus industry is struggling to recruit drivers

[northwichcat]

Just seen this advert from D&G Bus:

D&G Bus

dgbus.co.uk

These are the benefits they advertise:

• Competitive pay rates with enhancements

Compared to what? If I have a job, can I earn more by applying for this one?

• Minimum guaranteed hours of work each week with overtime available

I'm used to having a contract that specifies 37.5 or 40 hours per week. How is this is a benefit?

• Various shifts available to suit your needs

A real benefit!

• 28 days holiday (inclusive of bank holidays)

The job complies with employment legislation, that's great!

• Uniforms will be provided

Is that a benefit?

• Workplace pension

Again, the job complies with employment legislation.

• Fantastic career opportunities

Like what?

• Being part of a supportive team

?

• Additional employee benefits

Care to name them? There's only one so far!

• Free bus travel

A second benefit, depending on whether their bus routes actually go where you'd like to go on days when you don't work.

• Full route learning and familiarisation

Drivers not getting lost sounds like a benefit for the employer, who'll want their bus back at the end of the shift.

So after all that it seems there's two specified benefits in the advert and an assurance they also do what is legally required, like allow you to take annual leave and give you a workplace pension.

 

[GusB]

Is it really worded differently from any other job advert in other sectors? Why pick on the bus industry specifically?

 

[gmaguire]

When I was unemployed a few years ago, I would have happily worked as a bus driver. As I understand it you need a normal driving licence to be considered, and I don’t drive at all, ironically because I have used buses all my life.

 

[northwichcat]

Is it really worded differently from any other job advert in other sectors? Why pick in the bus industry specifically?

The bus industry is struggling to attract new drivers, so they really need to go all out to recruit. It looks like that's what they are attempting (the actual advert from D&G is very detailed for a bus driver) but it doesn't really sell benefits of working for a bus company.

Here's the benefits section from one of the top search results for entry level jobs in Manchester

• Remote and hybrid working options as standard
• Continuous learning and professional development opportunities
• Two annual bonus schemes
• 25 days’ annual leave (plus public holidays)
• Generous pension scheme
• Life and income protection insurance

https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?cmp=AMICULUM&t=Entry+Level+Medical+Writer&jk=1bb7b04649ccfb4f&vjs=3

Can you spot the differences? None of those are legal requirements or benefits that benefit the employer more than the employee. OK the word 'generous' could do with defining, does it mean 1% above the minimum or a 10% employer contribution. But 5 days more than the legal minimum for annual leave is a benefit, unlike simply stating the minimum.

When I was unemployed a few years ago, I would have happily worked as a bus driver. As I understand it you need a normal driving licence to be considered, and I don’t drive at all, ironically because I have used buses all my life.

At the moment very few people are unemployed, so if there's a shortage of bus drivers they need to attract people already in jobs. Maybe the fed up checkout clerk in the supermarket or someone who's an admin assistant for a less than pleasant boss?

 

[Hophead]

28 days holiday (inclusive of bank holidays)

Really hate this obfuscation of the real annual leave entitlement - what they actually mean is "20 days holiday", and that really is not an attractive proposition.

 

[Observer]

The large issue which is affecting a lot of operators is down to split shifts, being stuck off the road for hours before resuming driving, and not getting paid for that.

This has been a common complaint for years and hasn't got any better, only worse!

 

[Statto]

I think the bus industry is struggling for drivers because of pay rates, with cost of living skyrocketing, don't know the current hourly rates are, suspect it's not much over £10 an hour.

Also shifts patterns that have unsociable hours, shifts can start before 6am & finish well after 11pm, with Saturday & Sunday ( & most Bank Holidays ) part of the normal working week, anyone fancy working a shift driving buses on a Saturday night or where there are buses on a Sunday night, with a late finish on both nights.

Then the hassle maybe having to deal with anti social behaviour too, on board the bus you're driving.

Anyone who can, is looking elsewhere, like going into haulage.

 

[Snow1964]

As soon as a company states pay with enhancements, the obvious question is why does it need enhancing. The obvious answer is the basic pay rate is unattractive

Unfortunately the world has moved on, minimum pay is supposed to be absolute bottom for a menial task, not a target amount an employer shouldn’t exceed if they want quality employees.

Another big turn off is overtime or shifts, if you can take home same amount of pay working locally for a 35 hour week with regular hours, why on earth would you want to do an extended week with variable shifts.

The bus industry is just not competitive in the general employment market anymore, and it’s their problem if don’t want to accept it and be short of staff.

EDIT just been onto Indeed website, a local bus company is offering £12.77 per hour if you have a PCV licence and valid CPC, another has the vague upto £14 per hour, but again need a PCV licence and valid CPC. So not prepared to train new applicants either which means majority of population couldn’t apply.

I might be stupid, but if there are not enough drivers, and companies won’t train new applicants, they must think there is a magic driver tree alongside the magic money tree.

 

[tbtc]

The bus industry is just not competitive in the general employment market anymore, and it’s their problem if don’t want to accept it and be short of staff

I don’t know if you’ve noticed various trends over the past twenty years we’ve had…

…changes to licensed premises (Inc the smoking ban/ rise of supermarket booze) which meant many pubs/clubs closed down and the variable times for “last orders” messed up the economics of that “quarter past eleven” last bus home…

…similarly the end of large employers/ fixed shift patterns makes it harder to sustain a bus service - easy to fill a bus when the steelworks/ dockyard/ pit has hundreds of people signing on and clocking off at the same time each day but a lot harder when people are split between lots of office parks/ industrial estates, doing flexible hours rather than a strict nine-to-five…

…after a dozen years of austerity, PTEs/councils no longer have much money to subsidise bus journeys, other than the absolutely socially necessary stuff like school trips…

…the rise in online shopping and growth of retail parks which has effectively killed off many Town Centres as attractive destinations (why pay a couple of quid When all that’s left are charity shops/ Poundland/ vape shops/ Wetherspoons?)…

…the increased costs of running a bus (no more bread vans, modern vesicles cost significantly more nowadays, the accessibility requirements killed of a number of “independent” operators and made many routes run by the big boys uneconomic, fuel prices have made it harder to justify routes that were previously “marginal” - once upon a time a bus that was at full capacity in the rush hours could sustain a free lightly loaded off-peak trips, but if the commuters aren’t there in large volumes any more then the daytime services can’t be cross-subsidised by operators who used to make big money from just a couple of busy journeys a day…

…Internet dating/ certain apps/ later opening for pubs have killed off a lot of nightclubs, and the nightclubs that survived don’t all shut at two o’clock in the morning, so that’s another “flow” that has gone from being a large/concentrated volume of punters to a handful- something that you used to be able to rely on in larger cities…

…without trying to open a can of worms too much, there’s certainly an argument that operators aren’t fairly reimbursed for “free” pensioner travel, causing them to have to game the system by increasing single adult fares, meaning we have turns/cities where the price of a “weekly saver” might still be reasonable value but the price of a single into town is more than a pint of beer (because that’s what pensioner reimbursement is based upon), so regular commuters are still getting value for money but someone who only used the bus a handful of times a week/month is priced off…

…and whilst this may seem churlish, the big promotion of cycling in certain towns/cities has removed a lot of revenue from fareboxes - I’m glad that people cycle in much bigger numbers nowadays but a lot of them were previously the “green” types who’d use buses through choice but now contribute nothing …

…and then just when the industry seemed to be adjusting to the multi-whammy problems, along comes Covid which sees a lot of people working from home (if not all week, enough of the week to make a £15-20 weekly ticket look poor value for money when you are only travelling a couple of days, but the high price of single fares is off putting), many health messages about keeping your distance, more town centre shops closing, so people go back to driving because they don’t want to catch a disease on a bus and can’t afford to pay for expensive single tickets on the days that they do need to travel - whilst the government keeps propping up heavy rail, it waited until the deadline for committing to support bus services was almost up until they suddenly found money to keep it going / no long term strategy!

So, in light of all this, the expectation that operators will invest huge money in hybrid/electric vehicles (given that a lot of the “green” experiments have been abandoned and vehicles either scrapped early or converted to 100% diesel because the new technology wasn’t working) and the ongoing shadow of local government being able to force you to hand over assets and accept franchises/tenders, is it any wonder why bus companies don’t simply find the money to increase staff wages?

Companies can’t afford to compete, the way they used to, but rather than blame firms, maybe we could be more understanding about why running buses isn’t the stable/ dependable business that it once was?

Sorry if the job adverts aren’t going to attract your average Apprentice candidate, but firms in 2022 just can’t afford the largesse that we wish they could.

Society has changed, the economics of running buses has changed, and I don’t see it getting better any time soon

 

[mjc]

…similarly the end of large employers/ fixed shift patterns makes it harder to sustain a bus service - easy to fill a bus when the steelworks/ dockyard/ pit has hundreds of people signing on and clocking off at the same time each day but a lot harder when people are split between lots of office parks/ industrial estates, doing flexible hours rather than a strict nine-to-five…

Absolutely agree with most of what you say tbtc, although the effect of change to working patterns isn’t so clear cut I think. Laying on buses for 2,000 staff at a shift change twice a day would be a logistical problem for the bus company, that’s 20 or more buses needed in the same place at the same time, how to you accommodate that around other timetables? If it was just a regular service, even at 5 minute frequency the last in the queue would be waiting 2 hours. The flexibility of working hours means that the loads are spread out across a wider span of time and should be easier to work with. And although business/industrial parks feel spread out many of them are on old industrial sites, but sadly the workers who a generation ago would have walked half a mile to the pit gate perhaps feel hard done to waking the same distance past a few small office blocks to get to the bus stop on the main road.
I hope that the high price of fuel makes more people reevaluate their transport options, I can’t be the only person who does mental maths for every journey now working out the cost, and that may translate into more people leaving the car at home. That could give a renaissance of the bus era and enable companies to properly reward their drivers.

 

[M@verick]

I guess I should be qualified to answer this; having been a PSV licence holder for the past 21 years and one of the many to leave the industry in the last few years (although I was a leaver considerably before Covid).

There are many reasons but I suppose I simply became fed up of several things:
The shear monocity of thoughtless computer generated schedules and rosters
Unpaid breaks, sometimes totalling hours.
A lack of backing from faceless managers.

Add to it, poor pay, a high amount of weekend working and a culture of face-fitting with regard to promotions and that was that.

The final step for me was being told I didn't have relevant experience for a commercial post, despite being both trained in manual scheduling, huge experience in Naptan data and in computer scheduling systems used by two major bus groups. It was purely an appointment based on jobs for a friend and I'm pleased to say it unravelled fairly quickly for the lucky candidate. By then I'd left the industry and very little would tempt me back now - even if it was £20 an hour.

Oh and the culture of most bus large operators is a world away from what some of these appalling narcissists promote over their various ego fuelled social media feeds.

 

[Edsmith]

Seems a lot of bus drivers left the industry during the pandemic, either retired or found better paid driving jobs elsewhere with less unsocial hours with the boom in online shopping.

 

[markymark2000]

I'd say one reason they struggle is because too many companies throw all duties into a pool with earlies, lates, everything all thrown in. People can't all cope with such changes to their body clock and peoples lives don't work on a 3 weekly basis of earlies, middles and lates. People need more certainty over their shift with earlies only or lates only so that it works around childcare. The happiest drivers seem to be those who get a fairly regular duty. Some variations of course but one depot near me, the routes get split into a few rosters (so as not to release all the info, we will say 'north' and 'south' routes). In each roster there is also then

Most operators only have full time rosters which is another let down for people with other responsibilities.

EDIT just been onto Indeed website, a local bus company is offering £12.77 per hour if you have a PCV licence and valid CPC, another has the vague upto £14 per hour, but again need a PCV licence and valid CPC. So not prepared to train new applicants either.

Those who can train I think have the training schools full.
The sad thing is those with training schools (either internally or through partnerships) often end up being the worst employers and so someone goes through all the training and then hates the job but is stuck with a dismal firm to pay off training bonds or has to find money to pay back the bond. The firms with the best rosters, management and passengers tend to be those who only employ people who already have the relevant qualifications.
CPC I think is a big one in some firms too as drivers have to pay for that themselves and lose days pay while they do the CPC. The PLCs, they pay for the training and pay you to be in work doing the training.

 

[notadriver]

Many have left to do better paid HGV work - some even investing in the licence required.

HGV and coaches seem to welcome casual / ad-hoc drivers whereas service bus work does not appear to.

 

[Statto]

Seems a lot of bus drivers left the industry during the pandemic, either retired or found better paid driving jobs elsewhere with less unsocial hours with the boom in online shopping.

Many bus drivers left to go onto HGV work, during the HGV driver shortage a couple of years ago, better pay & less hassle.

 

[elmogrouchland]

Many bus drivers left to go onto HGV work, during the HGV driver shortage a couple of years ago, better pay & less hassle.

Less hassle is subjective.
If you haven't done both jobs then you can't have an informed opinion. If you have done both jobs you may still have a different opinion from someone else who has also done both jobs.

Me, I've done both, and haulage is more hassle in my opinion. YMMV.

Really hate this obfuscation of the real annual leave entitlement - what they actually mean is "20 days holiday", and that really is not an attractive proposition.

IIRC this was due to a government rule change. You used to get legal minimum holiday entitlement of 20 days. Public holidays were discretionary, though many employers offered the standard 8 days. Then the gov changed the minimum to 28 days, with public holidays still discretionary, or included in the legal min. So nothing really changed except for those didn't get the 8 days in the first place. Everyone else just changed their wording!

 

[richw]

Those who can train I think have the training schools full.

Where I am has increased the number of training buses to meet demand

 

[philthetube]

As soon as a company states pay with enhancements, the obvious question is why does it need enhancing. The obvious answer is the basic pay rate is unattractive



Another big turn off is overtime or shifts, if you can take home same amount of pay working locally for a 35 hour week with regular hours, why on earth would you want to do an extended week with variable shifts.



I might be stupid, but if there are not enough drivers, and companies won’t train new applicants, they must think there is a magic driver tree alongside the magic money tree.

This depends on what the enhancements are, if it is time and a half for working weekends then that is fine.

Some people will do all the ot available regardless of pay, many train drivers work ll they can despite their wages being far higher tha Bus drivers wages.

This should have realised by now that the magic tree is non-existent, though I am sure they thought that in the past.

 

[RJ]

The large issue which is affecting a lot of operators is down to split shifts, being stuck off the road for hours before resuming driving, and not getting paid for that.

This has been a common complaint for years and hasn't got any better, only worse!

I worked at Metroline, who paid from start to finish minus a 40 minute break. So those split shifts paid 12-13 hours for about 8 hours of work. I always got rid of those shifts in favour of lower paying late shifts because I didn’t want to spend all my driving time sitting in rush hour traffic. Plenty of takers.

As soon as a company states pay with enhancements, the obvious question is why does it need enhancing. The obvious answer is the basic pay rate is unattractive

There’s often an imbalance - more people prefer doing permanent earlies. Some people will be more willing to work evenings, nights and weekends if they’re paid a higher rate.

If the basic pay rate was deemed unacceptable, they wouldn’t be doing the job at all!

 

[Geordie driver]

As a result of the internet knowing I have a real PCV licence, I see a lot of adverts for bus driving jobs nearly always couched in the terms of the OPs advert.

The bare minimum is basically all they have, so they dress it up as good conditions and gloss over things like hourly rate, actual shift lengths, the way you are treated by your employer.

Polishing a turd it's called.

Imagine the poor sod that has to come up with these adverts, with his boss wanting to know why people aren't beating a path to the door wanting these fantastic jobs.

 

[M@verick]

I think a lot of hauliers and coach operators can be more flexible because the nature of their work is more flexible. I have worked for both hauliers and coach operators who simply turn down work if they don't believe they have the staff to cover it. Many realise it isnt worth the stress of dealing with.

A bus company doesn't have that luxury, it has a timetabled service it is legally obliged to operate and so picking people to work odd days causes problems with rota staff. I have seen some operators keen to embrace the part time driver idea but the problem it causes often only serves to pee off existing staff who end up covering the leftovers which you can bet are more often the unsociable hours and weekend shifts.

Many bus drivers left to go onto HGV work, during the HGV driver shortage a couple of years ago, better pay & less hassle.

Having worked in both, it is probably unfair to say less hassle - however in my experience there are different issues in HGV driving.

For me, I much prefer working for a company with a consistent shift pattern, I prefer being able to use my brain to plan my days work rather than following banal computer generated schedules and grinding around the same route all day long.

 

[STINT47]

It's worth pointing out that some employers will hire people on a self employed basis and they will not qualify for holiday pay or a pension. For these people 28 days holiday and a company pension may actually be seen as a benefit.

I recently applied to work on the admin at an NHS vaccination site and was told at the interview stage that it would be on the basis of me being a self employed contractor, so no holiday or sick pay and no pension either. I rejected the job there and then (and was annoyed that this "minor" fact was not mentioned in the job advert) but for someone working in this situation holiday pay and a pension would be a benefit.

 

[AdamWW]

Drivers not getting lost sounds like a benefit for the employer, who'll want their bus back at the end of the shift.

Well it does but I've been on a service bus (NOT rail replacement) where the driver seemed to have been sent out with just a route map and no prior training on the route. Maybe it was an emergency and not normal policy. I couldn't say.

Maybe we'll go down the lines of the bus I went on in Germany recently where the ticket machine doubled as a sat nav...

 

[RJ]

Just seen this advert from D&G Bus:

D&G Bus

dgbus.co.uk

These are the benefits they advertise:



Compared to what? If I have a job, can I earn more by applying for this one?



I'm used to having a contract that specifies 37.5 or 40 hours per week. How is this is a benefit?



A real benefit!



The job complies with employment legislation, that's great!



Is that a benefit?



Again, the job complies with employment legislation.



Like what?



?



Care to name them? There's only one so far!



A second benefit, depending on whether their bus routes actually go where you'd like to go on days when you don't work.



Drivers not getting lost sounds like a benefit for the employer, who'll want their bus back at the end of the shift.

So after all that it seems there's two specified benefits in the advert and an assurance they also do what is legally required, like allow you to take annual leave and give you a workplace pension.

Not everybody is employed under favourable conditions and for some, what is on offer there will be an improvement.

There are companies who don’t pay a competitive rate for instance - they pay the least they can get away with. One I know doesn’t have a pay rate, they ask the driver how much they’re willing to work for which can go against the driver if they’re not trained in the art of negotiation.

A lot of people don’t have a full time contract would love one as it represents a stable and reliable income. Some companies employ people who effectively work full time on zero hours contracts because it gives them the flexibility to reduce their hours at short notice, not pay sick pay and not make work available for a individual that has upset them without the complications that can arise from dismissal. Others are still taking drivers on as self employed as that gives even less rights.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Just been onto Indeed website, a local bus company is offering £12.77 per hour if you have a PCV licence and valid CPC, another has the vague upto £14 per hour, but again need a PCV licence and valid CPC. So not prepared to train new applicants either which means majority of population couldn’t apply.

I might be stupid, but if there are not enough drivers, and companies won’t train new applicants, they must think there is a magic driver tree alongside the magic money tree.

The Driver CPC is the massive red tape that's holding the industry back, if that was scrapped and the job was simply holding a PCV licence and having basic local knowledge then I think most people would go for the job as it would make a change from being inside a factory or an office.

As for the shifts, companies could advertise the core hours (7am to 7pm) alongside extra work available on earlies (4am 'til 7am) and evenings/nights (7pm'til midnight/1am/2am depending on the operator) which would make it appear that your not stuck on earlies one week and lates the next. Sunday work should be made seperate and as a single shift with a self covered dinner break penciled in i.e. a one hour gap in the timetable to permit a meal break. Overall its showing that you can choose the days you actually want to work.

 

[markymark2000]

The Driver CPC is the massive red tape that's holding the industry back, if that was scrapped and the job was simply holding a PCV licence and having basic local knowledge then I think most people would go for the job as it would make a change from being inside a factory or an office.

CPC has it's place in some ways but it needs a major revamp. The issue is how it works with companies is varies a lot. Stagecoach for example pay you to be in work when you're on CPC and also pay for you to be put through the scheme. Other firms won't pay you to be in work and you have to pay a 3rd party firm to do your training. One you lose no pay, the other you could be £1k down in just a week (based off driver doing 5 days of CPC training in one go and losing all of those days pay)

As for the shifts, companies could advertise the core hours (7am to 7pm) alongside extra work available on earlies (4am 'til 7am) and evenings/nights (7pm'til midnight/1am/2am depending on the operator) which would make it appear that your not stuck on earlies one week and lates the next.

Sadly, for many firms, it is the case though that you do silly shifts such and companies push your 8 hours off. It's only later on when you take on a permanent roster (only lates, only earlies) where you get the nicer hours. I know people in the industry who regularly finish very late, get 8.5 hours off then are back in on an early.

Sunday work should be made seperate and as a single shift with a self covered dinner break penciled in i.e. a one hour gap in the timetable to permit a meal break. Overall its showing that you can choose the days you actually want to work.

I do think it should be promoted what some of the pay and conditions are as at a number of places, Sundays are volunteers only, why isn't that promoted as people would be encouraged by Sundays off.

 

[RJ]

Drivers not getting lost sounds like a benefit for the employer, who'll want their bus back at the end of the shift.

While they might well want the bus back, not all are prepared to ensure drivers are trained on the routes they cover!

 

[RT4038]

I do think it should be promoted what some of the pay and conditions are as at a number of places, Sundays are volunteers only, why isn't that promoted as people would be encouraged by Sundays off.

In the meantime, the rail industry is trying to move away from voluntary Sunday working because it doesn't give a reliable service........

 

[Geordie driver]

The Driver CPC is the massive red tape that's holding the industry back, if that was scrapped and the job was simply holding a PCV licence and having basic local knowledge then I think most people would go for the job as it would make a change from being inside a factory or an office.

Most people taking PCV training will have the CPC rolled up into their training, you need it before you go on the road. All jobs require a bit of box ticking training, it's the modern way.

I really can't see that a few hours in a classroom would put anyone off applying for a good job with decent wages and conditions.

I have a medical on Wednesday, a few hours doing the CPC and I could be back on the road bus driving in a couple of weeks. I loved the job.

But I won't.

The money is terrible now for what it entails, the lack of support from management after assaults, the cut every corner cowboy attitude, the way some of the public think it's reasonable to talk to you yet you are still expected to carry them, heaters jammed on in summer yet not working in winter, 5 ½ hours without the chance to stand up, never mind access a toilet, splits shifts as the norm.


This is not the way good employers treat their staff.

 

[RJ]

I personally think Driver CPC in its current form is a waste of time. How can a qualification be compulsory when there is no syllabus or requirement for any specific knowledge whatsoever? It's beyond belief really and quite a lot of people are happy to hand over £50 for a day's training to be uploaded. It's a money generating scheme for the government - training providers have to pay hundreds of pounds to get each custom made course accredited and in turn they make a profit from running the courses.

The practical exam for the initial qualification basically consisted of looking at a coach and pointing out where the steering wheel and seatbelts were. It's an exam you can't fail.

Only one of my casual employers have offered training sessions. I made it through two days. One day we spent 2 hours going through a presentation of how to fill out a log card, an activity we all have to do on a daily basis. At times each second passing on the clock felt like a very long time and at points it felt like it was going backwards. There were people sitting there head slumped snoring, mouth ajar. I got the impression the trainer was used to it.

Prior to that I paid for a course and sat there while trainer was busy running their private hire and body shop business while checking in on me every so often. He even offered me a job.

Most casual employers I've worked for do not offer any assistance with CPC training. Personally I think that's a bit unfair, so with my operation I run a points scheme where each shift accrues credit that can be redeemed against a day of CPC training, which I will pay for with a trusted training centre. And if the driver gets their training elsewhere, that credit can be cashed out.