McGill's Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and Eastern Scottish)

[RomeoCharlie71]

This image has just been posted on the McGill's Enthusiast Group on Facebook in the last few minutes by Ralph Roberts

Image shows an E400MMC in the new Eastern Scottish livery

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I actually really like it. It really suits the E400MMC design.

 

[stevenedin]

I actually really like it. It really suits the E400MMC design.

Me too and doesn’t look like the Lothian livery so much as previously thought. Only slightly.

 

[Bus9120UK]

This image has just been posted on the McGill's Enthusiast Group on Facebook in the last few minutes by Ralph Roberts

Image shows an E400MMC in the new Eastern Scottish livery
View attachment 120939

Not sure about this one at all, particuarly at the front. The cream, green and black don't work well together. Perhaps the lighting is just poor.

 

[Christmas]

It's virtually the same as the Lothian Country livery. There isn't much imagination in the application at all.

As for the debate about operators using the same livery as competitors, I recall Docherty of Irvine using exactly the same A1 blue and cream livery as Stagecoach about 20 years ago and precisely nothing was ever done about that.

A final point is that McGill's clearly will not be applying ads to the sides of this livery, unless they add a fleet name at waistband level.

 

[Jordan Adam]

A final point is that McGill's clearly will not be applying as to the sides of this livery, unless they add a fleet name at waistband level.

If I'm not mistaken company policy at McGills is to not apply any advertising at all for external companies. Vehicles only retained advertising in Dundee so they could fulfil existing contract obligations so I'd imagine McGills Scotland East will be the same.

 

[Theproinsider]

Desperate stuff. Nothing new to bring to the table, so copy your competitor.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

It's virtually the same as the Lothian Country livery. There isn't much imagination in the application at all.

As for the debate about operators using the same livery as competitors, I recall Docherty of Irvine using exactly the same A1 blue and cream livery as Stagecoach about 20 years ago and precisely nothing was ever done about that.

A final point is that McGill's clearly will not be applying ads to the sides of this livery, unless they add a fleet name at waistband level.

What if the adverts go over the Eastern Scottish italic text?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

McGill's only advertise their own services. You'll notice that none of their West Scotland vehicles carry adverts.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

If I'm not mistaken company policy at McGills is to not apply any advertising at all for external companies. Vehicles only retained advertising in Dundee so they could fulfil existing contract obligations so I'd imagine McGills Scotland East will be the same.

I just saw thi smessage. I didn't know this.

 

[Scotrail88]

I just saw thi smessage. I didn't know this.

I’m sure Metro newspapers are the same and they will be withdrawn as per the West and Dundee.

 

[Christmas]

Strange that in the current financial climate that they can afford to completely remove all advertising and a steady income from it. I'd probably keep the rear end ones if it were my company.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

This image has just been posted on the McGill's Enthusiast Group on Facebook in the last few minutes by Ralph Roberts

Image shows an E400MMC in the new Eastern Scottish livery
View attachment 120939

Looks good. Hopefully if things settle down in the industry in the coming years, we'll see a return of the real Eastern Scottish serving the towns and villages in Greater Edinburgh again like they did for many years.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think Mcgills can be successful but it depends on one thing to be honest and it's can they keep drivers? Elsewhere, would suggest they need to really buck up their ideas to do that as the supply is so limited.

From what I've read and heard from the public, there is certainly an "anyone is better than First" mindset present so I do think people will give them a chance but cancellations must be kept at the bare minimum.

 

[adrock1976]

Do McGills intend to send any drivers over from Greenock/Milliken Park/Inchinnan for former Scotland East, or will it be the existing former First drivers there?

I was thinking that some of the McGills drivers would practically already be familiar with the X36/37 being as it serves Condorrat and Cumbernauld town Centre as they recently ran the 247/147 Monklands Hospital - Kirkintilloch/Kilsyth via Cumbernauld and Condorrat. It would be a straightforward route (X36/37) to learn, as off the M80 at Junction 4, through Mollinsburn and Condorrat, join A8011 Glasgow Road, Cumbernauld TC, the old village, Old Inns, Castlecary, then a straight run to Falkirk or Stirling.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Do McGills intend to send any drivers over from Greenock/Milliken Park/Inchinnan for former Scotland East, or will it be the existing former First drivers there?

I was thinking that some of the McGills drivers would practically already be familiar with the X36/37 being as it serves Condorrat and Cumbernauld town Centre as they recently ran the 247/147 Monklands Hospital - Kirkintilloch/Kilsyth via Cumbernauld and Condorrat. It would be a straightforward route (X36/37) to learn, as off the M80 at Junction 4, through Mollinsburn and Condorrat, join A8011 Glasgow Road, Cumbernauld TC, the old village, Old Inns, Castlecary, then a straight run to Falkirk or Stirling.

All staff are part of the transfer

 

[scosutsut]

It's hard to see how McGills (or any purchaser for that matter) can instantly transform the experience. You start day one with the same routes, same tired fleet, drivers (or lack of), depot facilities etc.

Communication with the travelling public will be key.

If they can successfully keep the public on side, demonstrate real progress and start properly fixing those issues then I have no doubt that can do better than First and I wish them good luck with it as when any company fails it is the passengers that suffer.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I’ve been looking at the new ticket options, they're even more confusing than those that First had offered.

And as for the livery, I’m afraid the design is a Lothian rip off.

 

[Stan Drews]

I’ve been looking at the new ticket options, there even more confusing that First had offered.

And as for the livery, I’m afraid the design is a Lothian rip off.

The ticket options are the same!

 

[stevenedin]

The ticket options are the same!

I was thinking the same but maybe they mean that the ticket options aren’t as clear as with First as it shows you every potential ticket option under one list instead of breaking it down into day tickets, year tickets etc.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Me too and doesn’t look like the Lothian livery so much as previously thought. Only slightly.

Honestly? If an E400 B5TL was repainted by Lothian into Cream/Green what would your thoughts be then?.

It's identical, I honestly don't know how people can say in good faith that it's not.

 

[markymark2000]

Strange that in the current financial climate that they can afford to completely remove all advertising and a steady income from it. I'd probably keep the rear end ones if it were my company.

External advertising I guess can make sense as some of the adverts that bus companies have are bonkers. A number of adverts promoting car salesplaces (why are buses promoting their competitor) and vapes are now common. It takes away from the livery and promoting the bus and the service (though some good adverts do exists, they arent overly common.


Metro though is a strange one as that doesn't affect anyone if it's there or not. in my opinion, it doesn't affect brand image, it's just a newspaper, if people want one, they'll get it. Money for nothing really for a bus operator. In fact, sometimes it gains passengers as some of the oldies board the bus just for the paper (though not as many people do that anymore)

 

[CN04NRJ]

External advertising I guess can make sense as some of the adverts that bus companies have are bonkers. A number of adverts promoting car salesplaces (why are buses promoting their competitor) and vapes are now common. It takes away from the livery and promoting the bus and the service (though some good adverts do exists, they arent overly common.


Metro though is a strange one as that doesn't affect anyone if it's there or not. in my opinion, it doesn't affect brand image, it's just a newspaper, if people want one, they'll get it. Money for nothing really for a bus operator. In fact, sometimes it gains passengers as some of the oldies board the bus just for the paper (though not as many people do that anymore)

Advertising space is sold to the advertising companies, who fit and remove advertisements to buses themselves (their own workforce visit bus garages to do it, usually overnight.)

 

[stevenedin]

Honestly? If an E400 B5TL was repainted by Lothian into Cream/Green what would your thoughts be then?.

It's identical, I honestly don't know how people can say in good faith that it's not.

It’s slightly different at the front and a different shade. Also with the large Eastern Scottish on the side it doesn’t look the same. The diagonal line is the same.

 

[GusB]

It’s slightly different at the front and a different shade. Also with the large Eastern Scottish on the side it doesn’t look the same. The diagonal line is the same.

It's close enough to Lothian's style to potentially cause confusion, perhaps not with the Midland colours, but certainly with the Eastern Scottish livery.

The average bus user isn't going to be looking at every exact detail and will probably just see that it's green and a lighter colour. I'm not sure that the difference between the white and cream will be that apparent.

 

[APT618S]

Unlike when they were at First, the buses now track on Bustimes, most buses now renumbered.

Map – McGill’s Scotland East

 

[Baileygirl]

External advertising I guess can make sense as some of the adverts that bus companies have are bonkers. A number of adverts promoting car salesplaces (why are buses promoting their competitor) and vapes are now common. It takes away from the livery and promoting the bus and the service (though some good adverts do exists, they arent overly common.


Metro though is a strange one as that doesn't affect anyone if it's there or not. in my opinion, it doesn't affect brand image, it's just a newspaper, if people want one, they'll get it. Money for nothing really for a bus operator. In fact, sometimes it gains passengers as some of the oldies board the bus just for the paper (though not as many people do that anymore)

The Metro is often left behind on seats or on the floor and makes the bus look untidy.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I notice that Scotland East have published advance notice of tomorrow's cancellations due to the ongoing driver shortage on their social feeds. Hopefully this continues, is kept up to date, and posted on the website/app tomorrow too.

The ticket options are the same!

I think the point being made is that the app shows every mobile ticket in one long list, which isn't intuitive. A search function, or putting each "zone" in its own category, might be better.

It's close enough to Lothian's style to potentially cause confusion, perhaps not with the Midland colours, but certainly with the Eastern Scottish livery.

The average bus user isn't going to be looking at every exact detail and will probably just see that it's green and a lighter colour. I'm not sure that the difference between the white and cream will be that apparent.

I agree. The McGill's CEO was justifying the new livery by saying "one says Lothian on it and the other says Eastern Scottish" and "all buses in London are red and it doesn’t confuse matters", the latter is hardly a valid comparison to make.

Two companies with near-identical liveries, operating in the same area (some services timetabled to run directly behind the other!) is only going to cause confusion amongst passengers, and more work for the drivers telling folk "you need the green bus, just make sure it has a big Eastern Scottish on it"...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's close enough to Lothian's style to potentially cause confusion, perhaps not with the Midland colours, but certainly with the Eastern Scottish livery.

The average bus user isn't going to be looking at every exact detail and will probably just see that it's green and a lighter colour. I'm not sure that the difference between the white and cream will be that apparent.

Absolutely agree with this.

Seems very similar in layout and passing off seems a very real concern.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It’s obvious for whatever reason McGills have deliberately tried to do a livery similar to Lothians shape. As I’ve said before the colours are not the problem, it’s the design that is. Ralph Roberts can try to justify it but I’m afraid he’ll struggle to convince the majority.

I’ve also noticed the shade of green in the final design looks darker than we first expected, and is strangely similar to the shade of green that Lothian are applying to their new green and white design…