Derailment near Carlisle - 19/10/2022 - 1715 Clitheroe Castle Cement Gb to Carlisle N.Y. (6C00)

[skyhigh]

Manchester crews could work to Leeds but I don't think anyone signs them to run between Leeds and Darlington.

They go on and off Neville Hill from Heaton fairly frequently so there are drivers who are able to make the move.

 

[D6130]

The most northerly trans-Pennine route is often overlooked. It's the oldest. I seem to recall back in 1982 a Serpell option was to close the ECML north of Newcastle but to retain the east-west link along the Tyne valley. The only route without long tunnels.

Travel via Manchester or Edinburgh for rail passenger diversions!

Passengers could also travel via Preston, Bradford, Leeds and York - or, at a pinch, via Lancaster and Leeds - without having to go via Manchester.

 

[DanNCL]

Can they escape via Leeds? Manchester crews could work to Leeds but I don't think anyone signs them to run between Leeds and Darlington.

They go on and off Neville Hill from Heaton fairly frequently so there are drivers who are able to make the move.

York drivers sign all the way from Victoria to Newcastle, but not 156s. So they would have to route conduct a driver with 156 knowledge (e.g. some drivers at Leeds).

3rd party drivers are used whenever a 156 needs to move between Leeds and Newcastle if I recall correctly.

 

[skyhigh]

3rd party drivers are used whenever a 156 needs to move between Leeds and Newcastle if I recall correctly.

I'm pretty sure it's Northern crew. They certainly run as Northern operated services rather than ROG etc.

Just checked, York sign Leeds-Newcastle and 156s so no reason a York driver couldn't make the move.

 

[_toommm_]

I'm pretty sure it's Northern crew. They certainly run as Northern operated services rather than ROG etc.

Just checked, York sign Leeds-Newcastle and 156s so no reason a York driver couldn't make the move.

Would York sign 156s? I’m fairly sure they don’t go to Leeds or York anymore, and they wouldn’t do any of the services out of Victoria operated by 156s surely?

 

[800001]

Would York sign 156s? I’m fairly sure they don’t go to Leeds or York anymore, and they wouldn’t do any of the services out of Victoria operated by 156s surely?

Am sure I’ve seen them on the Harrogate line on occasions

 

[_toommm_]

Am sure I’ve seen them on the Harrogate line on occasions

170 and 155 yeah. The occasional 150 and 158. Don’t think I’ve seen a 156 in Leeds in years.

 

[skyhigh]

Would York sign 156s? I’m fairly sure they don’t go to Leeds or York anymore, and they wouldn’t do any of the services out of Victoria operated by 156s surely?

They're not that much of a conversion from other 15x and with the regular shuttles from Heaton to Neville Hill I'd imagine that's enough to keep competency up.

Am sure I’ve seen them on the Harrogate line on occasions

156s haven't been on Harrogate services in years.

 

[800001]

170 and 155 yeah. The occasional 150 and 158. Don’t think I’ve seen a 156 in Leeds in years.

Must just of been stabled on platform 8 at York. Most definitely a 156, I know the difference between them and 150/155.

 

[skyhigh]

Would York sign 156s? I’m fairly sure they don’t go to Leeds or York anymore, and they wouldn’t do any of the services out of Victoria operated by 156s surely?

Here's an example of a 156 running under Northern crewing from Newcastle to York tonight. As far as I can see it's a York driver working it.

Realtime Trains | 5T83 2310 Heaton T&R.S.M.D. to York | 27/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5T83 2310 departure from Heaton T&R.S.M.D. to York on 27/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Killingworth]

Northern are suggesting a 5th November reopening date.

 

[800001]

Northern are suggesting a 5th November reopening date.

Very optimistic, I though I had read 3rd of November for Network Rail to have cranes in place to lift wagons?

 

[Bikeman78]

170 and 155 yeah. The occasional 150 and 158. Don’t think I’ve seen a 156 in Leeds in years.

They definitely ran from Manchester to Leeds via Hebden Bridge late 2019 and early 2020. Not sure if they have done it since, to be honest.

 

[rg177]

They definite ran from Manchester to Leeds via Hebden Bridge late 2019 and early 2020. Not sure if they have done it since, to be honest.

They had a phase in 2018-2020 of running on the Calder Valley again. I caught one on the Bradford Interchange to Huddersfield line in Nov 2018.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

They had a phase in 2018-2020 of running on the Calder Valley again. I caught one on the Bradford Interchange to Huddersfield line in Nov 2018.

That was the first time in years that they regularly got to Leeds. Throughout the vast majority of the Serco-Abellio era of Northern the only place in West Yorkshire that regularly saw 156s was Huddersfield, on the Manchester stoppers.

 

[alexl92]

Would York sign 156s? I’m fairly sure they don’t go to Leeds or York anymore, and they wouldn’t do any of the services out of Victoria operated by 156s surely?

There was a 156 stabled in York this morning, between Plat 2 and the car park.

 

[skyhigh]

There was a 156 stabled in York this morning, between Plat 2 and the car park.

Yes, it was the one I linked to last night making it's way to Neville Hill for tyre turning.

 

[Adam0984]

They come down for maintenance at Neville Hill, and are regular visitors in autumn for the wheel laithe, they're usually journey is down on the Heaton to York ECS and normally back via the S&C on the 1049 or 1648 (obviously that's not an option at the moment)

 

[Rail Ranger]

Northern are suggesting a 5th November reopening date.

Would be Sunday 6th November in practice because Saturday 5th November is an RMT strike day (both Network Rail and TOCs).

 

[zwk500]

Would be Sunday 6th November in practice because Saturday 5th November is an RMT strike day (both Network Rail and TOCs).

Would the RMT be representing the people doing the repairs as well?

 

[Killingworth]

Would be Sunday 6th November in practice because Saturday 5th November is an RMT strike day (both Network Rail and TOCs).

One day we may discover how much the strikes have delayed not only repairs and recoveries like this but also more major construction projects where knock on delays may be stretching completion dates by months.

 

[Annetts key]

Would the RMT be representing the people doing the repairs as well?

If they are employed by Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd and are maintenance staff, or works delivery staff, or any of the other smaller groups of staff that are part of the current industrial action. Signallers will also be on strike, which complicates things as well.

 

[Rail M]

Northern are suggesting a 5th November reopening date.

Not a chance of that date. The crane operations aren’t likely to have started before then. The 5th December is a more likely date and that is dependent on the structural assessment of the bridge which currently isn’t looking good.

 

[SteveHFC]

Restriction of Use (ROU) is currently in place until 2359 on 18th November, and I'm expecting that to be extended further.

 

[Carlisle]

Not a chance of that date. The crane operations aren’t likely to have started before then.

It’s a couple of freight wagons that’ll have been emptied isn’t it ? not a 130 ton locomotive or something

 

[Chris M]

Someone who works for the relevant organisation has commented elsewhere that an 800 tonne crane will be used. There are three waggons that need lifting from around 50 metres from the lift point, and if they are completely empty (which I suspect is unlikely given they are at angles they were never designed to be emptied from) they will weight about 25 tonnes each. Network Rail say that building the crane will take three days, and that's after all the parts of the crane arrive on site from wherever it currently is.
Assuming that all of the following are true

• The crane arrives on site tomorrow (30 October)
• The weather cooperates
• all the lifts go to plan
• It is possible to recover all three vehicles in a single day
• structure inspection work can begin immediately the last waggon is out of the way and takes only a couple of hours
• all the people and materials needed for repair are on site
• repair plans are already drawn up, approved and don't need amending
• the crane, support vehicles, recovered vehicles, etc. are not in the way of repairs
• Daylight isn't required for anything on the critical path
• The repair work takes no more than three days.
• Crane dismantling and repair work can happen simultaneously

Then it might just be possible to start running trains again on about the 5th, but the chances of every single one of those being true is essentially zero.

 

[Annetts key]

It’s unlikely that the repair work will take three days or less if other work or operations are going on at the same time.

 

[randyrippley]

Trying to empty wagons containing what is essentially burnt lime which are sitting in or above a river is a rather dangerous idea.
If the lime gets wet you're risking one heck of an exothermic reaction

 

[DanNCL]

Northern are suggesting a 5th November reopening date.

Restriction of Use (ROU) is currently in place until 2359 on 18th November, and I'm expecting that to be extended further.

So if it's already known internally that the earliest the line will reopen is the 19th November, why on earth are Northern still giving a public estimate of the 5th? With the ROU in place Northern will know that the line isn't opening before the 19th so there isn't any excuse for them giving the public false hope. If Northern were honest to the public in the first place they might find passengers less frustrated than they'll be when the announcement comes next week telling people that the line won't be reopening on the 5th after all.

Hats off to Network Rail for the huge amount of work they're putting into this.

They definitely ran from Manchester to Leeds via Hebden Bridge late 2019 and early 2020. Not sure if they have done it since, to be honest.

They had a phase in 2018-2020 of running on the Calder Valley again. I caught one on the Bradford Interchange to Huddersfield line in Nov 2018.

That was the first time in years that they regularly got to Leeds. Throughout the vast majority of the Serco-Abellio era of Northern the only place in West Yorkshire that regularly saw 156s was Huddersfield, on the Manchester stoppers.

I was surprised when 156420 turned up to take me from Leeds to York a few years ago, either in 2018 or 2019. Only saw it the once and I haven't seen a 156 in service in West Yorkshire since! The 195s arriving seems to have seen the 156s confined to the North East and North West again.

 

[Killingworth]

So if it's already known internally that the earliest the line will reopen is the 19th November, why on earth are Northern still giving a public estimate of the 5th? With the ROU in place Northern will know that the line isn't opening before the 19th so there isn't any excuse for them giving the public false hope. If Northern were honest to the public in the first place they might find passengers less frustrated than they'll be when the announcement comes next week telling people that the line won't be reopening on the 5th after all.

Estimates are just that and are based on information available at the time they are made. By their nature they can be out of date by the time they're read. As I understood it 5th was an earliest date. Let's see.