Proposed reopening of Stoke-Leek Line

[lil Bear]

Be very careful how you term "successful" in the restoring your railway scheme of things. As for the rails, they will be scrap.

The MPs put in for funding towards the feasibility study, to which they were succesful. For all intents and purposes its pretty clear cut. Should others decide this guarantees re-opening, more fool them...

For a full resumption of services I'd agree a complete re-rail is required. Wait and see what the MPs next move is.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How much is/was the cost of the feasibility study, compared with the cost of actually re-opening the line?

 

[lil Bear]

How much is/was the cost of the feasibility study, compared with the cost of actually re-opening the line?

The MPs only got the funding in November 2021, they haven't worked that quick in organising the feasbility study!

 

[The Planner]

The MPs put in for funding towards the feasibility study, to which they were succesful. For all intents and purposes its pretty clear cut. Should others decide this guarantees re-opening, more fool them...

For a full resumption of services I'd agree a complete re-rail is required. Wait and see what the MPs next move is.

It will need a brand new formation as well as signaling. It hasn't been touched for decades.

 

[Dr Day]

The feasibility study would probably be in the order of £50-£75k, depending on how much local authorities etc top up the £50k from the DfT fund. This study would include high level estimate of the capital costs, which could run well over £100m, and the net operating costs (ie subsidy) to run the service

 

[lil Bear]

It will need a brand new formation as well as signaling. It hasn't been touched for decades.

Last scoping I was part of there was a landslip to deal with around Abbey Hulton, a road bridge recommended for replacement due to bridge strikes in the same area, the two level crossings mentioned previously, and then drainage issues at Fenton Manor and Stockton Brook. And that's before we come to the Leek Aquaduct which is not in the healthiest of states.

Appreciate it's not cheap, but in the grand scheme of rail re-openings it's far from challenging. The ATOC Feasibility of late 90s / early 00s said the main thing against this line was the lack of a station site at Leek. CVR have solved that one at no cost to NR, so things may well have changed now. Wait and see what the feasibility study comes back in 2-3 years when they've actually completed such.

 

[Bald Rick]

This study would include high level estimate of the capital costs, which could run well over £100m

and the rest! Easily 3-4 times that.

remember that EWR was officially mothballed - and that’s £40m a mile.

How much is/was the cost of the feasibility study, compared with the cost of actually re-opening the line?

a proper feasibility study would be in the order of 1% of the cost of construction; in this case something in the order of medium single digit millions.

what has been granted is simply a small amount to prepare a very basic business case, which will then show whether it is worth progressing to full feasibility.

I’m reasonably confident that the answer will be ‘Not’.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks @Bald Rick. Thought you'd probably have a good handle on the magnitude of the likely figures involved.

 

[Bald Rick]

The MPs only got the funding in November 2021, they haven't worked that quick in organising the feasbility study!

on a point of order, the promoter (who is not the MP) would have had to price the business case study they proposed, and confirmed where the rest of the cash was coming from; DfT would only fund a proportion of the study. The study should be well underway by now. Arguably complete, it‘s about 30 person weeks of work, tops.

the MPs simply had to lend their support.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A storm in a teacup?

There are several threads re the Stoke to Leek line, this came up as the most recent.

Tearoom accused of trespassing

Tearoom accused of trespassing as 'ugly' fences put up​

Discussions are ongoing to reopen the area outside Endon's Railway Tearoom
By
Richard Price Local Democracy Reporter

• 09:00, 18 AUG 2022

Customers at a popular tearoom set in a former railway station have been stopped from heading out onto the former platform - as a row has broken out. The platform, at the back of The Railway Tearoom in Endon, has been blocked off while discussions to potentially open it back up are ongoing between community leaders and Network Rail.

The building - formerly the station ticket office - is owned by Endon Parish Council and is rented to the tearoom business, but the track and platform is owned by Network Rail. And a letter from Network Rail has said the platform needs to be locked up.

It states: “It has come to Network Rail's attention that you and others authorised by you are accessing the land for purposes other than repairing and maintaining the property.” It added that this was not permitted, and said: “Our records indicate that you have not sought any other permission from Network Rail to access the land.
“As such, you and others authorised by you are unlawfully accessing the land and therefore trespassing.” The letter continued: “We request that you and others authorised by you stop accessing the land immediately.

“You must remove all items that you may have placed upon the land. All gates and doors that provide access to the land must be kept locked at all times. If you require access onto the land to repair or maintain the property then you must provide Network Rail with prior written notice.”

A spokesperson for the parish council said they had written to Network Rail and had been told an appeal has been put forward to remove the fencing and grant access to the platform. A spokesperson said: “It’s a social place, it’s where people meet - they go to the tearoom, they go onto the station and they sit there, and there’s a couple of benches and a table.
"Without any consultation or anything, Network Rail just went ahead and fenced it all off. It looks terrible now."

The parish council is in talks over resolving the issue and removing the fencing. Councillors are understood to have raised concerns that blocking the rear access to the tearoom could deter customers - particularly disabled people who can’t access it via the front where there are steps.

Network Rail says the one-time platform has been blocked off for 'safety reasons'. A spokesperson said: "Unfortunately the terms of the tenancy agreement for the tea rooms in Endon do not include any access to the former station platform.

“As the railway has been disused for many years, we have had to fence off this access point to platforms and tracks for safety reasons. We’re in talks with the parish council who own the building and the tearoom owner on how they can formally ask permission to access more of the land so it can be used in a safe way.”

The owners of the tearoom business have been contacted for a comment.

 

[Bald Rick]

A storm in a teacup?

There are several threads re the Stoke to Leek line, this came up as the most recent.

Tearoom accused of trespassing

Sounds like the were using some land rent free (knowingly or not).

it will be nothing to do with reopening.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Sounds like the were using some land rent free (knowingly or not).

it will be nothing to do with reopening.

The land in question is the platform itself. There are pictures with the article but I wasn't sure if the yellow platform edge fence was put in place by the tearoom or Network Rail. Last time I was in the vicinity (some time ago - 2018 possibly 2015) there was no fence.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It will need a brand new formation as well as signaling. It hasn't been touched for decades.

It will be like restoring the first part of EWR around Islip, only single track.
The line was also subject to flooding, with bridges over the River Trent and its tributaries, and the Caldon Canal, needing replacement.
You can still see a few sections of visible track on Google Maps between Stoke and Endon, where the line bridges roads and waterways.

For a very long time after the quarry closed, you could see piles of sand at Stoke where the Oakamoor Quarry trains had stood, leaking the product en route to Pilkingtons at St Helens.
I've also read somewhere that the foundation stone for the Euston rebuild (in 1937-ish) came from Caldon Quarry which was then owned by the LMS.

 

[BrianW]

As a late arrival on this thread, can I have a reminder- how many marginal constituencies on this line? Thanks.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As a late arrival on this thread, can I have a reminder- how many marginal constituencies on this line? Thanks.

None really, both constituencies on the route are Tory.
Staffordshire Moorlands (Leek and a wide area around) is a long-time Tory seat except for the Blair years.
Stoke on Trent Central covers the western end of the line and is a Red Wall Tory seat, having previously been Labour since 1950.
Both majorities are 15K-ish.

 

[Stephen1001]

Stoke on Trent Central covers the western end of the line and is a Red Wall Tory seat, having previously been Labour since 1950.
Both majorities are 15K-ish.

The majority in Stoke-on-Trent Central is 670 and it's one of the most marginal seats in the country!

Also worth noting that because of the irregular shape of Stoke's constituencies, a small part of the line including the old Fenton Manor station is in Stoke-on-Trent South - another former red wall seat, but one which swung to the Tories earlier and harder than Central and is now relatively safe.

In terms of reopening prospects not of this is likely to help much though, as most of the benefits are to the settlements at the Leek end (in the safest seat of the three) rather than Stoke itself. Good luck to them, but don't expect to see a thread in the Infrastructure subforum any time soon.

 

[BrianW]

The majority in Stoke-on-Trent Central is 670 and it's one of the most marginal seats in the country!

Also worth noting that because of the irregular shape of Stoke's constituencies, a small part of the line including the old Fenton Manor station is in Stoke-on-Trent South - another former red wall seat, but one which swung to the Tories earlier and harder than Central and is now relatively safe.

In terms of reopening prospects not of this is likely to help much though, as most of the benefits are to the settlements at the Leek end (in the safest seat of the three) rather than Stoke itself. Good luck to them, but don't expect to see a thread in the Infrastructure subforum any time soon.

I note this from the 'They Work For You' website entry for Karen Bradley MP for Leek:

From 10 December 2021, Chair of the new Restoring Your Railway Leek – Stoke Board and Steering Committee. This is an unpaid role and meetings are monthly. (Registered 08 April 2022)

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A virtual telephone call was made.
Worthy of an article in the local 'news' paper.

'Viable options' to reopen mothballed railway line between Leek and Potteries

'Viable options' to reopen mothballed railway line between Leek and Potteries

Community leaders want to see the line brought back

The reopening of the mothballed Leek to Stoke railway line has viable options - members of Parliament have stated. Following a virtual call with councillors to update them on progress regarding the Stoke-Leek line project, Moorlands MP, Karen Bradley and Stoke-on-Trent South MP, Jack Brereton have issued a joint statement.

The statement said: “We are delighted as sponsor MPs for this project, at the quality of the analysis as we continue to build the case for reopening the line to public transport use. It is clear that viable options exist for a commercial service that can be more fully explored if we make it through to the next round of Restoring Your Railway - alongside Meir Station - when Network Rail would deliver detailed engineering and infrastructure reports.

“The existing connection to the mainline at Glebe Street junction can be retained but with a new, dedicated Stoke-Leek platform likely to be added to keep everything running as smoothly as possible through Stoke Station. There is a unique chance to win central funding for a transformational levelling up transport project and we are determined to win it for North Staffordshire rather than see the money be spent somewhere else.

“We look forward to continuing to hear from residents and businesses about their hopes for the line and hopefully to being able to allay any remaining fears. Our turn for national rail investment is well overdue.”

Last year the government awarded £50,000 of funding for a feasibility study into the restoration of the Stoke-to-Leek line – more than 60 years after the last passenger services ran along the route. Council leaders and local MPs believe that reopening the line would deliver a major economic boost to both Stoke-on-Trent and the Staffordshire Moorlands, while easing road congestion.

Passenger services between Stoke-on-Trent and Leek ended in 1956, with the station closing completely in 1970. Staffordshire Moorlands MP Karen Bradley chairs a delivery board which is commissioning a study into the options for reopening the line.

The board are considering proposals for intermediate stops at Endon, Milton, Birches Head/Abbey Hulton, Bucknall and Fenton Manor. A separate bid to reopen Meir railway station, which closed in the Beeching cuts, has reached the feasibility study stage. The city council received £37,500 for the project.

 

[Sm5]

Surely this £500mn pot of funding is ripe to be axed ?

Restoring Your Railway Fund

Supporting the restoration of rail lines and the reopening of stations.

www.gov.uk

It started days before lockdown changed the shape of railways.

a colossus amount of money to be sloshed around on consultants to blur up some happy story for a local MP to make some no hope rail scheme look viable. I doubt anyone of these will cut it, and even with a gold plated business case theres no money to build it once the £500mn is given away anyway.

if anything they should be looking at lines to be closed not reopened.

 

[Killingworth]

Surely this £500mn pot of funding is ripe to be axed ?

Restoring Your Railway Fund

Supporting the restoration of rail lines and the reopening of stations.

www.gov.uk

It started days before lockdown changed the shape of railways.

a colossus amount of money to be sloshed around on consultants to blur up some happy story for a local MP to make some no hope rail scheme look viable. I doubt anyone of these will cut it, and even with a gold plated business case theres no money to build it once the £500mn is given away anyway.

if anything they should be looking at lines to be closed not reopened.

Realistically that has to be the truth. We need to keep the railway we still use running better before adding any more. There's a lot to be done to achieve even that.

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely this £500mn pot of funding is ripe to be axed ?

well over half of it is already spent or committed.

if anything they should be looking at lines to be closed not reopened.

No comment.

 

[507020]

We need to keep the railway we still use running better before adding any more. There's a lot to be done to achieve even that.

Just Stoke - Leek is insufficient. As part of this they will also need to reopen the branch to Alton Towers to remove car and road journeys to the theme park. One of the railway’s biggest problems is that nowhere near enough places are served, not just that the surviving network isn’t served properly.

 

[Killingworth]

Just Stoke - Leek is insufficient. As part of this they will also need to reopen the branch to Alton Towers to remove car and road journeys to the theme park. One of the railway’s biggest problems is that nowhere near enough places are served, not just that the surviving network isn’t served properly.

When we can't even run the currently intended timetabled services any extra funds need channelling into that before adding more complications.

Alton Towers would be a logical extension from Oakamoor for the Churnett Valley Railway but it's quite a climb from the valley to the leisure park. The trackbed from Uttoxeter is well blocked by JCB's International HQ at Rocester.

 

[Bald Rick]

Just Stoke - Leek is insufficient. As part of this they will also need to reopen the branch to Alton Towers to remove car and road journeys to the theme park. One of the railway’s biggest problems is that nowhere near enough places are served, not just that the surviving network isn’t served properly.

The trouble with trying to serve Alton Towers with a rail link is that the traffic would be very peaky.

 

[BrianW]

When we can't even run the currently intended timetabled services any extra funds need channelling into that before adding more complications.

Alton Towers would be a logical extension from Oakamoor for the Churnett Valley Railway but it's quite a climb from the valley to the leisure park. The trackbed from Uttoxeter is well blocked by JCB's International HQ at Rocester.

Perhaps Sir/Lord Joe Bamford might have the resources to make a way via JCB World?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Perhaps Sir/Lord Joe Bamford might have the resources to make a way via JCB World?

Lord Anthony Paul BAMFORD (born 1945) is the big cheese of JCB. He's actually elevated to Baron rather than a ten for a penny Lord but they seem to still be referred to as Lord whomever.
Plain Joseph Cyril Edward BAMFORD (born 1977) is the bus company person. Son of the above.

He (or the various family trusts) undoubtedly has the resources but why would he/they? You might be able to fit a new alignment through the lake in front of the global HQ at Rocester and the ground is flat from Denstone all the way through to Uttoxeter. But that really isn't going to happen.

Alton Towers land ownership lies quite close to the former railway line (not the subject of the Stoke - Leek reopening proposal) but not the active part of the theme park. Alton station is in private ownership (Landmark Trust) who let it as holiday accommodation. You could build a replacement station on the Uttoxeter side, with a cable car or something up to the theme park. Probably cheaper to move the theme park to a site alongside an existing railway line though.

 

[A0]

The trouble with trying to serve Alton Towers with a rail link is that the traffic would be very peaky.

The visitor figures, pre Covid, were about 2m a year - and that would be vistors coming from all directions to Alton Towers.

Expecting even 10% to shift from road to rail would be, ahem, ambitious.

 

[507020]

When we can't even run the currently intended timetabled services any extra funds need channelling into that before adding more complications.

That is true and with a big uplift in service planned for December I'm interest to see whether it will just result in a big increase in cancellations.

Alton Towers would be a logical extension from Oakamoor for the Churnett Valley Railway but it's quite a climb from the valley to the leisure park. The trackbed from Uttoxeter is well blocked by JCB's International HQ at Rocester.

A Stoke - Leek reopening would have an interface with the Churnet Valley Railway at Cheddleton Junction. Presumably that would mean a main line connection for them, but also with an extension to Alton Towers, a DMU could just run on the heritage tracks from Leek.

The JCB HQ isn't getting demolished any time soon, but I'm sure they would appreciate a rail link. Serving Alton Towers from the Uttoxeter direction would be useful for the East side and London from Derby.

The trouble with trying to serve Alton Towers with a rail link is that the traffic would be very peaky.

That may be beneficial. You would only have to run a couple of trains a day over the heritage tracks.

The visitor figures, pre Covid, were about 2m a year - and that would be vistors coming from all directions to Alton Towers.

Expecting even 10% to shift from road to rail would be, ahem, ambitious.

Why? From the Stoke/Crewe direction you do have access to the 2nd most densly populated region the North West, as well as North Wales and Scotland via the WCML. Also if it's not somewhere frequently driven too, many people might be able to see the benefit of a direct train.

I do hope I'm not going to have to take over the entire railway to realise my reopening ambitions!

 

[BrianW]

Lord Anthony Paul BAMFORD (born 1945) is the big cheese of JCB. He's actually elevated to Baron rather than a ten for a penny Lord but they seem to still be referred to as Lord whomever.
Plain Joseph Cyril Edward BAMFORD (born 1977) is the bus company person. Son of the above.

He (or the various family trusts) undoubtedly has the resources but why would he/they? You might be able to fit a new alignment through the lake in front of the global HQ at Rocester and the ground is flat from Denstone all the way through to Uttoxeter. But that really isn't going to happen.

Alton Towers land ownership lies quite close to the former railway line (not the subject of the Stoke - Leek reopening proposal) but not the active part of the theme park. Alton station is in private ownership (Landmark Trust) who let it as holiday accommodation. You could build a replacement station on the Uttoxeter side, with a cable car or something up to the theme park. Probably cheaper to move the theme park to a site alongside an existing railway line though.

Google searches (other search engines available) suggest one Bamford or another may have a pound or two that could be invested, allegedly

Mark Bamford

Mark Bamford was born in 1951 and educated at Millfield School. Immediately after leaving school, he started his career with the JCB Group, where he still works. Mark is a director of 8 companies within the JCB Group and holds 4 directorships outside the JCB Group.

www.theconservativefoundation.co.uk

Tory donor whose dad lends PM his helicopter nabs millions in eco-deals

Jo Bamford, the heir to the JCB empire, has set himself up in the hydrogen fuel industry - set to be big business at next month's COP26 climate change conference in Glasgow

www.mirror.co.uk

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...commodation-worth-10000-from-tory-donors-wife

JCB links to secret club of Tory donors

A representative for the chairman of JCB, the UK-based manufacturer, has been named as belonging to "a secret club of Conservative donors

www.leasinglife.com

Lord Bamford has donated £5.2m to the Conservative Party, including £2.8m under Johnson, the report said.

I guess such figures wouldn't buy more than a meter or two of rail line; perhaps better invested elsewhere. Did such investment do any MacAlpine any good?

 

[snowball]

Lord Anthony Paul BAMFORD (born 1945) is the big cheese of JCB. He's actually elevated to Baron rather than a ten for a penny Lord but they seem to still be referred to as Lord whomever.

Baron is the lowest of the five ranks of the peerage (duke, marquess, earl, viscount, baron). Dukes are addressed as "Your Grace", the other four as "My Lord". So a baron is not a bigger cheese than a lord.