November strike action on National Rail suspended - impact on next week's service

[Nicholas Lewis]

There is for Network Rail and has been for months.

Maybe RMT can see that there isn't comprehensive support in NR to continue strikes so before they have to show their hand on the reballot they are going back to negotiations. Also maybe Merriman has also made overtures to try and heal the rift that DfTs previous incumbents created.

 

[Jan Mayen]

This the statement I would like to be reading on the Southern Trains website later this evening:
'The RMT strikes on 5,7,9 Nov have been called off. In order to provide a reliable service we have decided to leave the advertised service for 5 to 10 Nov in place. HOWEVER, we will now work to introduce additional services. These will be advertised when, and only when, we are confident they will run.'

What are the chances of that, or something similar, being published by any TOC?

 

[zwk500]

Why do they have to be manually entered

prior to the strike date being announced, they were in the system. The change to a strike might mean manual changes, but surely the change back to normal just needs someone to do a roll back to what was there 3 or 4 weeks ago

It is not hard in computing world to do a data restore using the database saved 3-4 weeks ago to overwrite the strike timetable, and replace it with the original timetable.

You can do this, and it has been done before, but it will also delete any work done that you want to keep since the save was taken. There's also going to be a number of changes to the base plan to shift things around

As the old saying goes, where there’s a will there is a way. Seems there is nobody prepared to show goodwill here.

That goodwill has been eaten away, hence why there are strikes on.

 

[TFN]

MTR Elizabeth line will run their strike timetable on Sat 5 and late start up on Sun 6. Their full timetable will resume from Monday 7.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

NR publish the timetables at around 1600 daily Mon-Fri, with upload then done overnight into the rest of the systems. Reverting a timetable is quite a lengthy process as there's thousands of changes to be processed and so you'd need to find enough of the appropriate planning and Systems support staff to come in on Saturday at 12 hour's notice and fix the timetable to change it for monday. Bear in mind many of the staff have already been putting in overtime on weekends to try and get DEC22 fixed.

Wednesday should be possible though. I expect control are going to be very busy from now until Wednesday putting schedules back in.

Strikes are getting rolled back for Wednesday by NR planners not control.

 

[Pete_uk]

Would GWR services run on Wednesday?

 

[pompeyfan]

Why do they have to be manually entered

prior to the strike date being announced, they were in the system. The change to a strike might mean manual changes, but surely the change back to normal just needs someone to do a roll back to what was there 3 or 4 weeks ago

It is not hard in computing world to do a data restore using the database saved 3-4 weeks ago to overwrite the strike timetable, and replace it with the original timetable.

As the old saying goes, where there’s a will there is a way. Seems there is nobody prepared to show goodwill here.

There was no STP diagrams or timings produced for tomorrow, so would have to revert to LTP / WTT which doesn’t take into consideration anything regarding engineering works, as well as rolling stock potentially not being where it should and formed as it should. All staff have reverted to base rosters which again don’t reflect a lot of retiming which would ensure crew diagrams were within their T&Cs.

 

[gazzaa2]

This the statement I would like to be reading on the Southern Trains website later this evening:
'The RMT strikes on 5,7,9 Nov have been called off. In order to provide a reliable service we have decided to leave the advertised service for 5 to 10 Nov in place. HOWEVER, we will now work to introduce additional services. These will be advertised when, and only when, we are confident they will run.'

What are the chances of that, or something similar, being published by any TOC?

It's impossible for people to plan around though. Thousands of people have to have plans in place to get to work next week.

 

[Steveswan10]

I think RMT were biting off more than they could chew with staff losing 4 days pay over the next week.

Thus you wonder if there is genuine progress or it's just a swindle from RMT to make sure staff still get paid but the trains aren't running anyway. They'll probably pull the same tactic again in a few weeks.

I have a question.....and just to warn I have no interest into getting into a slagging match....its just a genuine question, if the above is the case, what would the government do in terms of starting the process to make striking illegal (like the Fire Service, Army ect) and will this start to make the Unions loose votes and the public sympathy if Network Rail and the government would be able to prove it?

 

[66701GBRF]

I have a question.....and just to warn I have no interest into getting into a slagging match....its just a genuine question, if the above is the case, what would the government do in terms of starting the process to make striking illegal (like the Fire Service, Army ect) and will this start to make the Unions loose votes and the public sympathy if Network Rail and the government would be able to prove it?

It isn't illegal to strike in the fire service. The only change in law that has been made since the last fire strike is that they must make all of their equipment available to the replacements firefighters.

 

[43066]

They won't. And so the RMT has ensured a huge deal of disruption without staff losing any pay, and whilst getting positive press out of it.

Cynic, me? Never!

Not necessary cynical so much as someone who seems to dislike the unions representing your front line colleagues. Not an unusual view on the railway, sadly.

How typical that action is called off and, rather than celebrating that as a positive development, people on here just start sticking the boot into unions (again).

I’d say tough, there is literally no reason whatsoever now that a full Saturday service can’t run tomorrow, pay them extra if you have to, just get those services moving…

You clearly don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about.

And rightly so.

If the RMT think people are going to view them positively as a result of this decision they need to think again. No regard for how the public perceive them but maximum regard for themselves, as usual.

So just like the unions in every other industry (including yours), then?!

Also maybe Merriman has also made overtures to try and heal the rift that DfTs previous incumbents created.

Let’s hope it’s the second. It does seem like the mood music from the government has changed somewhat since Shapps was in the chair…

 

[Steveswan10]

It isn't illegal to strike in the fire service. The only change in law that has been made since the last fire strike is that they must make all of their equipment available to the replacements firefighters.

Okay thanks I didn't realise that

 

[12LDA28C]

I’d say tough, there is literally no reason whatsoever now that a full Saturday service can’t run tomorrow, pay them extra if you have to, just get those services moving…

I don't believe you have the first idea how the railway works. Train planners will have spent a long time planning which trains will run tomorrow and traincrew and unit diagrams will have been cancelled / amended as appropriate. You literally can't change all that at twelve hours' notice. Or do you think that the whole railway operates on a short-term and ad hoc basis and things can be changed at the drop of a hat?

But apparently the TOCs are now ready to make an offer (there was none before).
The RMT will also have some regard for the results of the ballot now in progress.
It's certainly possible that the new DfT team is more constructive than the old.

The TOCs have not been allowed to even enter pay negotiations so how can they now be ready to make an offer?

 

[danielcanning]

I don't believe you have the first idea how the railway works. Train planners will have spent a long time planning which trains will run tomorrow and traincrew and unit diagrams will have been cancelled / amended as appropriate. You literally can't change all that at twelve hours' notice. Or do you think that the whole railway operates on a short-term and ad hoc basis and things can be changed at the drop of a hat?

So are you telling me that all those trains lined up in the depot suddenly become unavailable? I’m sorry I don’t believe that these staffing issues can’t be sorted at short notice, if there’s a will, there’s a way…

 

[dk1]

I don't believe you have the first idea how the railway works. Train planners will have spent a long time planning which trains will run tomorrow and traincrew and unit diagrams will have been cancelled / amended as appropriate. You literally can't change all that at twelve hours' notice. Or do you think that the whole railway operates on a short-term and ad hoc basis and things can be changed at the drop of a hat?

Exactly that. At my depot the daily lists for tomorrow & Monday have been posted. Drivers like myself who have been put on modified diagrams at different times can now not be moved without their permission. This makes it very difficult indeed to restore a robust timetable. Unless any train planners are working this weekend it is one hell of a task to expect Control & Duty Traincrew Managers to fully restore everything themselves.

 

[nedchester]

Merseyrail tomorrow

Strike Action

Find out about Strike Action Merseyrail. Timetables and ticket prices also available

www.merseyrail.org

 

[43066]

I don't believe you have the first idea how the railway works. Train planners will have spent a long time planning which trains will run tomorrow and traincrew and unit diagrams will have been cancelled / amended as appropriate. You literally can't change all that at twelve hours' notice. Or do you think that the whole railway operates on a short-term and ad hoc basis and things can be changed at the drop of a hat?

I might expect it from the wider public but it is extraordinary that members of a railway forum, who you might logically expect would know more than the average person, appear to understand so little about how the railway works.

So are you telling me that all those trains lined up in the depot suddenly become unavailable? I’m sorry I don’t believe that these staffing issues can’t be sorted at short notice, if there’s a will, there’s a way…

Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. It’s the simple reality of the situation as has been explained over and over again. Your choice whether you accept it or not.

 

[dk1]

I might expect it from the wider public but it is extraordinary that members of a railway forum, who you might logically expect would know more than the average person, appear to understand so little about how the railway works.



Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. It’s the simple reality of the situation as has been explained over and over again. Your choice whether you accept it or not.

Like you I’m extremely surprised by some of the comments on here tonight.

 

[Urobach]

How typical that action is called off and, rather than celebrating that as a positive development, people on here just start sticking the boot into unions (again).

Agreed, no doubt if the action hadn't been called off there'd have been uproar from the same posters questioning how serious RMT are about resolving the dispute as they're not even calling off the strikes during the "intensive negotiations".

 

[Jan Mayen]

It's impossible for people to plan around though. Thousands of people have to have plans in place to get to work next week.

Yes, but someone planning on traveling from say Crawley to Amberley tomorrow (as I was) might be pleased to find out the journey is now possible?

 

[High Dyke]

Some areas of the UK will be getting no service (Lincolnshire) but the signal boxes will be manned (now we have no strike) and train crews will be ready to run the service (as they were not in dispute) - Is the problem that the signal boxes won't be manned as they haven't decided who will man them?

Signallers are still rostered to work a shift at all boxes. It's just when a strike takes place not all locations will be staffed. With action suspended staff should report for their booked turn.

 

[306024]

Just to wish good luck and sanity to all those planners, roster staff and controllers who are further amending and/or reinstating booked services. The workload is huge, never mind planned engineering work which further complicates things. For some TOCs, trying to replan at such short notice could be more disruptive than leaving things as they stand.

 

[12LDA28C]

So are you telling me that all those trains lined up in the depot suddenly become unavailable? I’m sorry I don’t believe that these staffing issues can’t be sorted at short notice, if there’s a will, there’s a way…

Oh dear. Again, proving your ignorance of railway matters. Let's say Driver A was due to start work driving trains at 1700 tomorrow but due to the strike his turn of duty has been cancelled so he was rostered Spare instead. He's now planned a day with his family, or booked an appointment, or arranged to be at home for an important delivery, but then receives a phone call asking him if he would mind coming in at 1300 instead because more trains are running because the strike is off. Why should he change his plans and go into work early? Multiply this by 10,000 for drivers and many more for guards, signallers, maintenance and station staff etc. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Like you I’m extremely surprised by some of the comments on here tonight.

I have never planned a rail service, so accept that I don't know what is involved. But as a passenger this is how I perceive tomorrow morning goes at Horsham depot or signing on point. Drivers turn up for work, as per their rota. Units are sitting in the sidings at Horsham. I'd like to think that somehow, someone might be able to organise a service from Horsham to Three Bridges (for trains to London and Brighton). Whilst I could accept the full reintroduction of Arun Valley line services isn't going to happen tomorrow, perhaps some shuttle service could be?

 

[nedchester]

I might expect it from the wider public but it is extraordinary that members of a railway forum, who you might logically expect would know more than the average person, appear to understand so little about how the railway works.



Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. It’s the simple reality of the situation as has been explained over and over again. Your choice whether you accept it or not.

I absolutely understand the complexes involved as I am currently working in STP planning but it does demonstrate the lack of flexibility in the system and that some operators have put it in the too difficult pile.

I’m sure a few VSTPs could be run on most lines with a bit of ingenuity.

 

[zwk500]

I absolutely understand the complexes involved as I am currently working in STP planning but it does demonstrate the lack of flexibility in the system and that some operators have put it in the too difficult pile.

I’m sure a few VSTPs could be run on most lines with a bit of ingenuity.

Tbf I think a lot of operators are under-promising to over deliver tomorrow morning. It won't be anything like a full service, but there might be more than the strike plan running tomorrow. They just don't want to promise anything until everybody involved has said yes.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Oh dear. Again, proving your ignorance of railway matters. Let's say Driver A was due to start work driving trains at 1700 tomorrow but due to the strike his turn of duty has been cancelled so he was rostered Spare instead. He's now planned a day with his family, but then receives a phone call asking him if he would mind coming in at 1300 instead because more trains are running because the strike is off. Why should he change his plans and go into work early? Multiply this by 10,000 for drivers and many more for guards, signallers, maintenance and station staff etc. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Apologies, but what does rostered spare mean, please? Is it the same as having a day off? Many thanks

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Oh dear. Again, proving your ignorance of railway matters. Let's say Driver A was due to start work driving trains at 1700 tomorrow but due to the strike his turn of duty has been cancelled so he was rostered Spare instead. He's now planned a day with his family, but then receives a phone call asking him if he would mind coming in at 1300 instead because more trains are running because the strike is off. Why should he change his plans and go into work early? Multiply this by 10,000 for drivers and many more for guards, signallers, maintenance and station staff etc. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Thats fair enough you can't try and reroster staff but that driver would be there for 1700 so could pick up a duty and perhaps each TOC should at least endeavour to prioritise high usage routes with additional services if possible although i get if you can't forewarn people whats possible better to stick with already published for tomorrow but maximum effort should be made for Monday and Wednesday.

 

[peter166]

Oh dear. Again, proving your ignorance of railway matters. Let's say Driver A was due to start work driving trains at 1700 tomorrow but due to the strike his turn of duty has been cancelled so he was rostered Spare instead. He's now planned a day with his family, or booked a doctor's appointment, but then receives a phone call asking him if he would mind coming in at 1300 instead because more trains are running because the strike is off. Why should he change his plans and go into work early? Multiply this by 10,000 for drivers and many more for guards, signallers, maintenance and station staff etc. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Because he's now getting paid, not to sit at home but to go into work and drive trains.
Calling off the strike with such short notice effectively means train staff get 4 days pay for doing nothing & passengers do not get trains to travel on

 

[12LDA28C]

Apologies, but what does rostered spare mean, please? Is it the same as having a day off? Many thanks

No. A day off is a day off (or a Rest Day, as it's called on the railway)

Rostered Spare means you go into work as usual, are expected to stay for the duration of your rostered turn and can be utilised for whatever your supervisor or Control centre want, within your job specification and defined framework, adhering to Ts & Cs.. For a driver of course this would mean driving trains if required.