Bluestar Discussion

[Hophead]

Mod note: Posts #1-5 were originally here -

First to close Southampton depot

I can see the sense in a 15-min frequency along Thornhill Park Road with two per hour going on to Hedge End and the other two to Harefield. If the number 13 was retained for Harefield you'd then have 3 and 13, which are related numbers, which might be easy to memorise for users. Not sure it...

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Blue Star are holding a recruitment event (ends tomorrow). Similar to Bournemouth, there's a sign-on bonus. As a clue to the future network, they are explicitly looking for "Drivers with full route knowledge of First City Reds routes 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 13" - I don't suppose there's any surprise that they see no need to cover CR1 (Calmore) & CR2 Weston / Millbrook, since both are pretty much covered in their entirety by BS12 & BS17/18.

Bluestar is getting BIGGER!​

We need qualified bus drivers for our expanding network of bus routes in Southampton. If you currently work for First City Redsand are looking for a new job after February 18th, we want to hear from you.

We're holding a recruitment event in Guildhall Square, at the Student Hub in the Sir James Matthews building (entry through Artisan Cafe) between Wednesday 7th December and Friday 9th December (09.30-16.30), as we get ready to run additional routes from 19 February 2022.

 

[nw1]

Blue Star are holding a recruitment event (ends tomorrow). Similar to Bournemouth, there's a sign-on bonus. As a clue to the future network, they are explicitly looking for "Drivers with full route knowledge of First City Reds routes 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 13" - I don't suppose there's any surprise that they see no need to cover CR1 (Calmore) & CR2 Weston / Millbrook, since both are pretty much covered in their entirety by BS12 & BS17/18.

I wonder if this indicates that they will be doing a like-for-like on these routes, rather than a route rework of the sort speculated above?

If so, bets on numbering? I'd stand by my earlier suggestions, but extend with one route:

3 -> 19 (because they ran a 19 on this route for a while, also the other cross-town routes are the close-by numbers 17 and 18)
7 -> 14 (because the Townhill Park route historically was the 14)
8 -> 15 (in same area as the 14 and 16, so makes sense to have close-together numbers)
13 -> 13 (because there is no current Bluestar 13, so may as well retain the number)
6 -> 10 (neighbouring numbers 8, 9, 11 and 12 are all out-of-town)
9 -> 20 (next available number. Will Bluestar get into the twenties for the first time)?

 

[Surreyman]

Blue Star are holding a recruitment event (ends tomorrow). Similar to Bournemouth, there's a sign-on bonus. As a clue to the future network, they are explicitly looking for "Drivers with full route knowledge of First City Reds routes 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 13" - I don't suppose there's any surprise that they see no need to cover CR1 (Calmore) & CR2 Weston / Millbrook, since both are pretty much covered in their entirety by BS12 & BS17/18.

I note that the Bluestar Ad states that they are looking for up to 100 drivers, I believe First City Reds have(or had)@120, if the rough rule of thumb is that every bus in service needs 2 drivers, it would suggest an additional PVR of 50, this seems unlikely, I am guessing that the existing Bluestar operation is short of drivers?
Whatever the extra future PVR turns out to be, Bluestar is going to require some extra vehicles, I don't believe the existing Go-south Coast fleet has any slack in it after the Yellow Bus closedown, so what might be sourced and from Where?

 

[Goldfish62]

I note that the Bluestar Ad states that they are looking for up to 100 drivers, I believe First City Reds have(or had)@120, if the rough rule of thumb is that every bus in service needs 2 drivers, it would suggest an additional PVR of 50, this seems unlikely, I am guessing that the existing Bluestar operation is short of drivers?
Whatever the extra future PVR turns out to be, Bluestar is going to require some extra vehicles, I don't believe the existing Go-south Coast fleet has any slack in it after the Yellow Bus closedown, so what might be sourced and from Where?

100 drivers would indicate a PVR of about 35 max because drivers will not be working seven days a week.

As you say this number could include making up for a current shortage so PVR is likely to be lower still.

 

[baza585]

100 drivers would indicate a PVR of about 35 max because drivers will not be working seven days a week.

As you say this number could include making up for a current shortage so PVR is likely to be lower still.

Bluestar are very short of drivers currently. I doubt the increase in PVR will exceed 20.

I do wonder if a recast of the Bournemouth network (particularly the Christchurch routes) might be part of the solution to the extra vehicle requirements.

 

[nw1]

If this is a general Bluestar discussion, I'm wondering if interworking between routes has increased recently?

For example most 1 journeys are covered by the diagrams E10-19 (and similarly the 2 seems to be covered by E20-E29, etc). However one journey in the early evening on the 1 (just after 1700 from Southampton, I think) is consistently diagram E24 (which indicates it's normally on the 2) and another around an hour later is consistently with an older vehicle, and was diagram E26 this week.

I've also noticed that diagram E24 covers an inbound Barton Peveril journey in the morning (has a route number, unfortunately I've forgotten it).

I'm aware the 1 and 2 interwork all day (?) on a Sunday.

Bluestar are very short of drivers currently. I doubt the increase in PVR will exceed 20.

I'd guess something like (assuming current frequency, and without looking at the City Red timetables):

Townhill Park (7 replacement) - 5 vehicles

Harefield and Montague Avenue routes (assuming that they remain hourly) - 3 vehicles. Currently the 13 interworks with the 1 to Calmore, as the round trip to Harefield is just over an hour

Hamble - 3 vehicles

Hedge End - 4 vehicles

The 3 replacement, assuming it's City-Thornhill only on a 10-min headway - 7 vehicles?

Then maybe another 3 to increase the frequency on the 17 and/or 18 to compensate for the loss of routes through Shirley, so I would imagine about 25 extra vehicles would be needed.

Interworking (including with current Bluestar routes) or that classic trick of "gaps" around 4pm while the vehicles do school trips could cut this down a bit, I guess.

 

[themeone]

Does anyone know if City Red electronic tickets purchased in advance are likely to be accepted by Bluestar after next February? I've got about 5 singles left out of a bundle of 10, and don't use them up that fast.

 

[Soundwave]

Does anyone know if City Red electronic tickets purchased in advance are likely to be accepted by Bluestar after next February? I've got about 5 singles left out of a bundle of 10, and don't use them up that fast.

They are under no obligation to. And given the notice First has given, I doubt Go South Coast will be as sympathetic as when Yellow Bus went under.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Does anyone know if City Red electronic tickets purchased in advance are likely to be accepted by Bluestar after next February? I've got about 5 singles left out of a bundle of 10, and don't use them up that fast.

I think if they did, it would only be period tickets. Possibly less likely given First intend on winding down sales of tickets between now and the end of operation.

 

[Stan Drews]

Does anyone know if City Red electronic tickets purchased in advance are likely to be accepted by Bluestar after next February? I've got about 5 singles left out of a bundle of 10, and don't use them up that fast.

I thought First’s bundles of day tickets were only valid for up to 28 days, or thereabouts?

 

[themeone]

I thought First’s bundles of day tickets were only valid for up to 28 days, or thereabouts?

Mine are valid to 8/11/23, which looks like one year after purchase. But it's a bundle of single tickets.

 

[Delenn]

Mine are valid to 8/11/23, which looks like one year after purchase. But it's a bundle of single tickets.

I'd talk to First about those. You may be able to get a partial refund.

 

[ChrisPJ]

A return to much greater percentage of double deck buses and lower frequency routes after a while?

 

[nw1]

A return to much greater percentage of double deck buses and lower frequency routes after a while?

Difficult to know what they might put on the new routes.

Not sure if any of the routes they are taking over could deal with a lower frequency without making the service unattractive. Many have already been cut back by First.

I'd guess the Hamble and Hedge End routes might be mostly single-deck, with some double-deckers for diagrams that include busy/school journeys. Same for the 9 and 13 replacements, perhaps they will use three single-deckers to operate both these routes (as neither can be done out-and-back in 55 mins or so, which would be necessary for one vehicle per route).

Bluestar seems to be mostly a double deck operation, but some routes (8/11/12) appear to be predominantly single-deck and some (the 3 and 4, in particular) seem to be mixed.

 

[Surreyman]

Difficult to know what they might put on the new routes.

Not sure if any of the routes they are taking over could deal with a lower frequency without making the service unattractive. Many have already been cut back by First.

I'd guess the Hamble and Hedge End routes might be mostly single-deck, with some double-deckers for diagrams that include busy/school journeys. Same for the 9 and 13 replacements, perhaps they will use three single-deckers to operate both these routes (as neither can be done out-and-back in 55 mins or so, which would be necessary for one vehicle per route).

Bluestar seems to be mostly a double deck operation, but some routes (8/11/12) appear to be predominantly single-deck and some (the 3 and 4, in particular) seem to be mixed.

Out of interest, are there any routes of City Reds or Bluestar in the greater Southampton conurbation that can't be Double deck? (i.e low bridges/trees etc).

 

[nw1]

Out of interest, are there any routes of City Reds or Bluestar in the greater Southampton conurbation that can't be Double deck? (i.e low bridges/trees etc).

None I know of, I think all routes have featured double-deckers at one time or another. Certainly back in 1989/90, Citybus within the city was an 100% double-deck operation, and the 8 to Hedge End has seen double-deckers at times. Not sure whether there have ever been double deckers on the 6 to Hamble, but there certainly were on its predecessor, the 16.

 

[Lewlew]

The only low bridges I can think of are Swaythling arch and underneath Central Bridge but nothing goes under them.

 

[PTR 444]

The only low bridges I can think of are Swaythling arch and underneath Central Bridge but nothing goes under them.

IIRC the U6H/U6C routes used to do a one-way loop around Wessex Lane and under Swaythling arch when they were operated with single deckers. The introduction of a wholly double-deck Unilink fleet necessitated the removal of the loop, with buses simply turning left towards the university at the McDonalds junction.

 

[Stan Drews]

Mine are valid to 8/11/23, which looks like one year after purchase. But it's a bundle of single tickets.

Ah, right, that would make sense. They seem quite restrictive with their day ticket bundles, when compared with other ops.

 

[Surreyman]

None I know of, I think all routes have featured double-deckers at one time or another. Certainly back in 1989/90, Citybus within the city was an 100% double-deck operation, and the 8 to Hedge End has seen double-deckers at times. Not sure whether there have ever been double deckers on the 6 to Hamble, but there certainly were on its predecessor, the 16.

One of the reasons I asked was because an obvious source of extra vehicles for Bluestar at short notice would be ex Go Ahead London E400s, they would be near identical to existing Bluestar buses.

 

[Lynford1976]

It has been suggested on other forums that the Unilink fleet is up for renewal next year; there has been the recent demonstration of a Wrightbus Streetdeck Electroliner.

Obviously any replacement fleet won't arrive in time to allow for a cascade for the assumption of the ex-First services, so short-term transfers from elsewhere could indeed be possible.

 

[nw1]

It has been suggested on other forums that the Unilink fleet is up for renewal next year;

That's very soon, I think the current buses were only introduced in 2018.

The 18 university route in Bath circa 1993, for example, featured many services operated by VRs in which the fleet (Badgerline) featured some N- and quite a few P-registered examples, vintage approximately 1974 or 1975. Admittedly the minibuses which ran the off-peak services were newer, but most peak-hour vehicles on the route dated from the mid or late 1970s.

 

[WibbleWobble]

That's very soon, I think the current buses were only introduced in 2018.

Unilink contract requires a replacement every 5 years.

Scanias new in 2008 were replaced with Enviro400s / Volvo B7RLEs in 2013, which were in turn replaced with the current MMCs when the contract was renewed in 2018.

 

[route101]

Unilink contract requires a replacement every 5 years.

Scanias new in 2008 were replaced with Enviro400s / Volvo B7RLEs in 2013, which were in turn replaced with the current MMCs when the contract was renewed in 2018.

Some of those Scanias are still in service. The last time I was in Southampton I saw a few.

 

[341o2]

Bluestar are very short of drivers currently. I doubt the increase in PVR will exceed 20.

I do wonder if a recast of the Bournemouth network (particularly the Christchurch routes) might be part of the solution to the extra vehicle requirements.

This may well happen with the Summer 2023 timetable, maybe an extension of the M2 to Christchurch?

 

[baza585]

This may well happen with the Summer 2023 timetable, maybe an extension of the M2 to Christchurch?

I think the plan was to wait until April/May. I expect the M2 to become M2/M2a/M2b at a total frequency of 8bph (a slight increase over now) with a similar marginal increase to frequency on M1.

However the need to source additional vehicles for Bluestar might bring that forward (or that was my thought anyway.....

 

[WibbleWobble]

Some of those Scanias are still in service. The last time I was in Southampton I saw a few.

But not on Unilink, those Scanias were cascaded elsewhere - the double decks are all at Morebus.

 

[AwkwardHail]

But not on Unilink, those Scanias were cascaded elsewhere - the double decks are all at Morebus.

Some are still in Southampton with Bluestar, however correctly not on Unilink routes.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Unilink contract requires a replacement every 5 years.

Scanias new in 2008 were replaced with Enviro400s / Volvo B7RLEs in 2013, which were in turn replaced with the current MMCs when the contract was renewed in 2018.

Southampton City and Bluestar did bid for ZEBRA funding for an EV renewal of the UniLink fleet, but it was one of a number of bids that didn't get funding.

 

[nw1]

I've noticed today that Bluestar are using several vehicles for transport to the university's graduation. Seem to be those vaguely "Boris Bus" like ones (sorry, don't know the model name) that they use mostly on the 18 but sometimes find their way onto other routes. In other words, they are not, I presume, the same vehicles that run the school and college journeys which seem to be a good deal older.

This presumably suggests that Bluestar already have some slack in their fleet, which would help when the new routes start.