Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[skyhigh]

A lot of the WHSmith High Street stores are stuck in the early 90s and some have closed recently (Blackpool, Bletchley etc), but more are opening or going through a huge refurbishment programme (Brighton Churchil Square springs to mind).

From what I've heard, at lease renewal time they've asking for significant discounts. If the landlord doesn't agree, they just walk away. They don't publish a store closures list and try to keep it quiet, but a fair number have shut.

I'd suggest that makes them more likely to survive though. They just get on with what they need to do to make them the most money (even if it involves closing a store with the only post office for miles around).

 

[Dai Corner]

Wilko closed one of the two floors in their Newport branch a couple of years ago. I hear WH Smith are about to do the same. I think the last thing I bought in the former was a 99p pack of tap washers and in the latter a book of four stamps. Not the sort of spend to keep a business profitable, assuming I'm a typical customer.

 

[Phil56]

WHS are an interesting case. The High Street division is in a kind of "managed decline" which is prolonging the life of the business. Rather than plodding in with unprofitable stores, they close them when performance falls below a certain level, unlike say Woolworths who ploughed on with loss making stores which brought the entire group down. WHS own a lot of their stores, so aren't paying ruinous rents on those. They're also not spending (wasting) huge sums of money on shop refits, etc., hence the dowdy look in many, threadbare flooring, etc. Taking in post office counters in so many towns was a master stroke as it drives footfall and also contributes towards premises costs. Their newspapers and magazine sales continue to be healthy as they're usually "last man standing" in town centres, so one of the few places selling them, and they sell all the "less popular" titles that supermarkets don't sell, such as foreign newspapers and hobby/special interest magazines, etc. I think, though, they missed a trick when Thorntons (chocolates) closed as they would have been in an ideal position to take in Thorntons franchises, but that ship's now sailed. I don't think there'll be any High St WHS stores in, say, 10 years, as newspapers/magazines are a slowly dying industry, which just leaves post office counters, which won't need such large premises.

 

[route101]

Wilko stores do remind me of the Woolworths. As for WH Smith, very little reason for me to go into one now.

 

[8A Rail]

WHS are an interesting case. The High Street division is in a kind of "managed decline" which is prolonging the life of the business. Rather than plodding in with unprofitable stores, they close them when performance falls below a certain level, unlike say Woolworths who ploughed on with loss making stores which brought the entire group down. WHS own a lot of their stores, so aren't paying ruinous rents on those. They're also not spending (wasting) huge sums of money on shop refits, etc., hence the dowdy look in many, threadbare flooring, etc. Taking in post office counters in so many towns was a master stroke as it drives footfall and also contributes towards premises costs. Their newspapers and magazine sales continue to be healthy as they're usually "last man standing" in town centres, so one of the few places selling them, and they sell all the "less popular" titles that supermarkets don't sell, such as foreign newspapers and hobby/special interest magazines, etc. I think, though, they missed a trick when Thorntons (chocolates) closed as they would have been in an ideal position to take in Thorntons franchises, but that ship's now sailed. I don't think there'll be any High St WHS stores in, say, 10 years, as newspapers/magazines are a slowly dying industry, which just leaves post office counters, which won't need such large premises.

"WH Smith Ltd" is basically two separate companies. 1) The High Street Division and 2) The Travel and Hospital Division.

The 'High Street' Division is really what it says on the tin and outside the main city centre stores which many are linked with the Post Office, others are slowly disappearing. The 'Travel and Hospital' Division concentrates on Airports, Main Railway Stations and of course Hospitals. No guesses which is the profitable part of the business but that is were refurbishment and expansion (is / was) funds are currently being spent. Likewise 'WH Smith' now link up with partners, such as 'Marks and Spencer' for the likes of sandwiches and other related food too.

 

[david1212]

At my local Wilko before Christmas and last week there was obvious low stock and gaps on the shelves particularly Wilko branded products including stationary, DIY & pet care plus a completely empty rack ( size around 2m x 2m ) that should have chocolate / confectionary / packed sweets. The pick&mix sweets seemed OK.

B&M / Home Bargains indeed do have a range of household & toiletry items but much less stationary, paint & DIY. The Range does have more stationary, paint & DIY. First though there has to be a local store while second most are on a retail park or stand-alone not on the high street. Currently local to me are non within 10 miles. If there was interest by one of B&M, Home Bargains or The Range in the empty 2-story unit that M&S had or any other available given peak trading is October - December I would have expected the store to have opened last year. Should Wilko go maybe then another would be interested but the flip side is if Wilko was not viable they might not be either.

Most Wilko being in town / city centres though may well be the problem. In the same town centre shopping centre as Wilko all of Top Shop group, Next, GAP and Marks & Spencer clothing / housewares have closed with the units still empty plus other stores around the town so there must be a significant drop in footfall.


For years I have wondered how WH Smith high street and retail park stores still survive not least with their high prices. Small outlets at railway stations, hospitals ( recall some time ago the publicity when they charged an extortionate price for a small tube of toothpaste ) and similar I can understand.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I’ve always thought of B&M,Home Bargains and Poundstretcher as just more expensive versions of Poundland (not that you get much for a pound in there these days!).They often sell here today gone tomorrow products of lower quality than Wilkos. It’s stuff that does but little else. However I’ll shoot myself in the foot here by saying that our local branch of HB sell bottles of Nigerian Guinness that I cannot find anywhere else.

 

[TAS]

As said, the public's perception of WH Smith (a high street retailer) and WH Smith's perception of itself are rather different. To quote page one of its 2022 Annual Report:

WH Smith PLC is a leading global travel retailer for travel essentials with a smaller business on the UK high street.

Digging into the report in more detail, five pages are dedicated to the travel division (p.19-23, including a full page graphic on their North American operations). One page is dedicated to the high street division (p.24). Travel revenue was £927m and headline trading profit was £89m. High street revenue (also including Funkypigeon.com and other online businesses) was £473m and headline trading profit was £33m. There were 1196 travel units worldwide and and 527 high street stores. The mood of the travel section is upbeat and focused on growth opportunities; the high street section is focused on efficiencies and controlling costs (average rent savings on lease renewal are 53%; average lease length is under two years and about 460 leases are due for renewal in the next three years).

This focus on the international travel business is also visible in this Financial Times interview:

According to Carl Cowling, the group's chief executive, revenues from WHSmith's US travel business will overtake those of its UK high street stores as the move gathers pace.

"We are small now but we're growing rapidly," he said, adding that recovery in passenger numbers and new store opportunities mean its market share there could double to 20 per cent over the next four to five years.

Also interesting (but unsurprising) to note from that interview that of the 273 US outlets, only one of them is branded as a WH Smith.

 

[Jamiescott1]

This focus on the international travel business is also visible in this Financial Times interview:

Also interesting (but unsurprising) to note from that interview that of the 273 US outlets, only one of them is branded as a WH Smith.

I know a whs branded outlet in the USA. Its in la guardia airport New York, terminal B.
It is similar to the amazon shops with no checkouts and cameras detecting what you purchase.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I’ve always thought of B&M,Home Bargains and Poundstretcher as just more expensive versions of Poundland (not that you get much for a pound in there these days!).They often sell here today gone tomorrow products of lower quality than Wilkos. It’s stuff that does but little else. However I’ll shoot myself in the foot here by saying that our local branch of HB sell bottles of Nigerian Guinness that I cannot find anywhere else.

I've recently moved home not far from a B&M and it's a godsend for flat pack furniture and pretty much all home decor.

 

[gswindale]

Most Wilko being in town / city centres though may well be the problem. In the same town centre shopping centre as Wilko all of Top Shop group, Next, GAP and Marks & Spencer clothing / housewares have closed with the units still empty plus other stores around the town so there must be a significant drop in footfall.

Interesting - in our local town centre, the "out of town" version of Next closed with the "High St" branch (smaller and so less range) remained open. Similarly our High St M&S seems to be doing reasonably well - possibly as it is attached directly to the car park and so gets passing trade that way.

I have a feeling the former may have been purely down to lease terms etc as I can't find when the one in the Peel Centre opened, but the in-town one would have opened Sept 17 and I think the other closed back end of 2020 and was there for a good few years before the in-town one opened.

 

[Tester]

.....our local branch of HB sell bottles of Nigerian Guinness that I cannot find anywhere else.

That's a bit niche

 

[Ashley Hill]

That's a bit niche

It’s nice stuff. Far better than the usual Foreign Extra!

 

[Andyh82]

Regarding Wilkos, I tend to trust the quality is better than that at B&M or the discounters. Often you get very cheap homewares, boxes that don’t fit correctly etc, that is probably only ok for a student flat or something you’d get as a stop gap. Also don’t stores like B&M have a range that changes depending on what they can get hold of, rather than a consistent range? Endless Fray Bentos pies etc.

In regards to WHSmith and in context to this forum, just think about the railway magazines. I bet in most towns they are the only place that sell the full range. Supermarkets tend to sell one or two titles and that’s it.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I hope Wilko survives. I my eyes they are a replacement for Woolworths as they were a few decades ago before they became an oversized sweet and toy shop. Wilko do seem to be better than Poundstretcher, B&M and Home Bargains. But I fear the difference is not large enough.

As for WHSmith, I hardly need them. I have a voucher I am struggling to use. But would be sad to see them go.

 

[birchesgreen]

In regards to WHSmith and in context to this forum, just think about the railway magazines. I bet in most towns they are the only place that sell the full range. Supermarkets tend to sell one or two titles and that’s it.

Since my local WHS closed about 12 month ago i haven't bought a single railway magazine. Still it has saved me a considerable amount of money!

WHS going under would kill much of the magazine sector i suspect.

 

[Typhoon]

Wilko has secured the financing it has been seeking to ensure it won’t run out of money if trading worsens significantly this year.

The household and gardens retailer has agreed a £40m two-year revolving credit facility with Hilco.

Wilko has also appointed Chris Howell as chair and non-executive director in the latest leadership change aimed at helping turn around the business’s fortunes.

Major shareholder Lisa Wilkinson will step aside as chair but remain on the board as family director, alongside Dalton Philips, who remains non-executive director.

Howell chairs a number of high-profile UK and international businesses, including Kodak Alaris and D&D London, and is highly experienced in leading companies through challenging situations and change, according to Wilko.

His appointment follows that of Mark Jackson, formerly CEO of Bensons for Beds, as Wilko CEO designate in December, replacing incumbent Wilko chief Jerome Saint-Marc.

Wilko’s recently filed full-year accounts at Companies House said the business was in talks to gain financing needed to preserve liquidity in the event trading declined significantly in 2023. It said the extra financing could be needed on top of £48m already secured from the sale and leaseback of its Worksop distribution centre to DHL in November.

The accounts revealed the retailer fell to a £36.8m loss before tax in the 12 months to 29 January 2022, down from a profit of £4.4m the previous year, against a backdrop of major supply chain disruption and high street footfall decline.

Announcing the latest developments this morning, Wilko said it recognised it had been underperforming and was making strategic changes including accelerating its omni-channel offer and shaking up the leadership team.

It said the new financing would allow it to accelerate its turnaround plans, which also involve negotiations with landlords to secure cheaper rents.

It said Howell’s leadership of the board would ensure smooth transformational change in the short-term and into the future.

In other leadership changes, Natasja Laheij has joined as non-executive director and chair of audit and risk, following the standing down of Chris Martin in November on completion of a three-year stint with Wilko.

Laheij holds a senior finance director EMEA position at Google and is a board member for Google Payments. She previously held a senior finance role at Amazon.

“Our history is steeped in serving customers and communities going back to 1930,” said Lisa Wilkinson.

“Right now we’re making necessary changes to restore confidence and safeguard the future of the business.

“That includes making sure we have the right leadership in place – one aligned team with the right expertise to deliver the retail experience our customers are demanding of us today.”

Union GMB welcomed the changes, saying it was “looking forward to working with new Wilko leadership after chairwoman Lisa Wilkinson stepped down”.

“Wilko is in desperate need of new direction,” said GMB national officer Nadine Houghton.

“For a long time, GMB members at WIlko have made the case the company can be successful if it gets back to doing what it does best.

“To do this, Wilko must be genuinely affordable - a good value retailer for hard working families with customers understanding what the brand represents.

“We look forward to working with the new CEO and board chair to help turn the business around.”

Looks like 'last chance saloon'. My concern would be that they move the company towards the lower end of the market, which is already saturated. At least it looks safe in the short term.

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/discoun...appoints-chris-howell-as-chair/674899.article

 

[SuspectUsual]

The GMB comment in that is quite telling, it reads as if they saw the Wilkinson family representative as a problem

 

[tomuk]

If Hilco are involved things must be very bad.

 

[david1212]

Looks like 'last chance saloon'. My concern would be that they move the company towards the lower end of the market, which is already saturated. At least it looks safe in the short term.

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/discoun...appoints-chris-howell-as-chair/674899.article

Good news for now.

I’ve always thought of B&M,Home Bargains and Poundstretcher as just more expensive versions of Poundland (not that you get much for a pound in there these days!).They often sell here today gone tomorrow products of lower quality than Wilkos. It’s stuff that does but little else. ...

If Poundland carry the same item, at least for what I look at, the pricing is similar or even more if rounded up to £1 rather than 89p at B&M etc. The difference is B&M particularly also stock e.g. bedding and spring / summer garden furniture that Poundland do not.

Regarding Wilkos, I tend to trust the quality is better than that at B&M or the discounters. Often you get very cheap homewares, boxes that don’t fit correctly etc, that is probably only ok for a student flat or something you’d get as a stop gap. Also don’t stores like B&M have a range that changes depending on what they can get hold of, rather than a consistent range? Endless Fray Bentos pies etc.
...

IMO anything in B&M and Home Bargains even major brand items have to be treated as short term availability i.e. a contract agreed for a certain quantity at a price. If they can not get another contract at the same price they will cease to stock that item or if they can get a better one from another supplier swap - I'm thinking as an example Heinz vs Cross&Blackwell for baked beans.
Further with say kitchen and tableware, bedding, towels etc once the warehouse stock is cleared the next batch may well be different.

Wilko seem generally to have longer term arrangements so more likely to be able to buy a matching item at least a few months later plus as you both say better quality.

 

[johntea]

Talking of bargain shops what exactly is keeping Poundstretcher going?

They seem to recruit some sort of new boss every several months as Aziz Tayub the owner just seems to reject all their ideas, I remember there was a series on Channel 4 several years ago 'Saving Poundstretcher' where he even recruited Chris Edwards and co from Poundworld and they certainly didn't see eye to eye so that relationship was very short lived! (also I remember their 'star buy' being err...coconut water)

Then they pull marketing tricks like '50% off everything!" ... after increasing the price of everything shortly before the promotion by around 50%!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Then they pull marketing tricks like '50% off everything!" ... after increasing the price of everything shortly before the promotion by around 50%!

...so effectively 25% off, then? Still a good discount, but as you say extremely sneaky to raise the price first.

I wonder, though - did they actually raise the prices by 100% so that they ended up at the same price as before after the discount? If so, that's even more despicable of them...

 

[Steddenm]

...so effectively 25% off, then? Still a good discount, but as you say extremely sneaky to raise the price first.

I wonder, though - did they actually raise the prices by 100% so that they ended up at the same price as before after the discount? If so, that's even more despicable of them...

Yes they did as I mentioned earlier on in this thread.

Was disgusting of them to be fair.

Hand sanitiser was originally £1.50 at the time. A week before the sale it went up to £3.00, and then in their 50% off sale it went back to £1.50. The sale promotion signs at both Poundstretcher and their sister company, Bargain Buys, were removed quickly and guess what? The prices didn't ever go back up.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Poundstretcher/Bargain Buys are indeed a very strange outfit.

Ican't comment on all of their stores, but their quieter stores that I've seen have all been in areas with more competition (main town centres, retail parks etc). Their quieter stores near me no all seem to be closed.

Their busier stores seem to be in areas with less direct competition, smaller towns etc. I can't imagine any of their stores would be able to survive with a Poundland/B&M/Home Bargains on their doorstep, but I guess in areas without such competition, locals are happy to have a discount retailer, regardless of how questionable they may be.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Poundstretcher will struggle as long as Azis Tayub and any of his family are anywhere near day to day operations. A friend of mine went there in a quite senior supply chain role and lasted about four months before he walked off the job because of their constant interference and irrational decision making (eg supply chain should be a “push” from the warehouse to maximise its efficiency, rather than a “pull” from the stores, which means most stores end up horrifically overstocked on some lines whilst having a lot of gaps on the shelves)

 

[GusB]

Talking of bargain shops what exactly is keeping Poundstretcher going?

As far as I'm concerned they've gone. I quite liked Poundstretcher for certain things, bird food being one; they used to stock larger packs and they were far better value than anywhere else. The shop closed during lockdown and never reopened, sadly.

Poundland has since moved into that location on a temporary basis while the building that they previously occupied is being rebuilt after a fire. I'm really not keen on Poundland, but at least it's in the town centre. B&M and Home Bargains are in a retail park on the other side of town.

 

[Peter Sarf]

...so effectively 25% off, then? Still a good discount, but as you say extremely sneaky to raise the price first.

I wonder, though - did they actually raise the prices by 100% so that they ended up at the same price as before after the discount? If so, that's even more despicable of them...

I noticed some things might not have doubled in price but certainly some things did double in price before becoming 50% off. I now have more contempt for Poundstretcher.

Yes they did as I mentioned earlier on in this thread.

Was disgusting of them to be fair.

Hand sanitiser was originally £1.50 at the time. A week before the sale it went up to £3.00, and then in their 50% off sale it went back to £1.50. The sale promotion signs at both Poundstretcher and their sister company, Bargain Buys, were removed quickly and guess what? The prices didn't ever go back up.

I have encountered similar in other stores. An August back in about 2018 just before my annual music festival trip. Tesco had a Buy one get one free on Pepsi six packs (iirc £3.99). But in my local Morrisons the same product was half the price (almost - iirc £2). So I paid 0.5p extra per six pack but for the smaller quantity I wanted.

I then started building a shopping list in Excel showing the best price per Kilogramme or per Litre. Gets quite complicated and time consuming. It showed up that no single supermarket chain is best for a majority of items.

As for price promises, a few years ago Sainsburys refused to price match the Pringles they sold with ASDA - reason was a sllght difference in weight (iirc theirs was 197g and ASDAs was 200g).

I can see that most of the supermarkets are quite savvy. They have threatened/beaten clothes shops by selling their own brand of clothes, also true of electronic goods. Sainsburys accommodating Argos is a master stroke in survival. However I do encounter more empty shelves in my nearest Sainsburys than I do in Morrisons, Tesco or ASDA so I tend not to go to Sainsburys as it is too often a fruitless trip.

Poundstretcher/Bargain Buys are indeed a very strange outfit.

Ican't comment on all of their stores, but their quieter stores that I've seen have all been in areas with more competition (main town centres, retail parks etc). Their quieter stores near me no all seem to be closed.

Their busier stores seem to be in areas with less direct competition, smaller towns etc. I can't imagine any of their stores would be able to survive with a Poundland/B&M/Home Bargains on their doorstep, but I guess in areas without such competition, locals are happy to have a discount retailer, regardless of how questionable they may be.

Interestingly in Croydon we only have Poundstretcher and Poundshop. No B&M or Home Bargains, No Wilko, or Robert Dyas. No hardware. Strange for what is such a huge London borough.

Poundstretcher will struggle as long as Azis Tayub and any of his family are anywhere near day to day operations. A friend of mine went there in a quite senior supply chain role and lasted about four months before he walked off the job because of their constant interference and irrational decision making (eg supply chain should be a “push” from the warehouse to maximise its efficiency, rather than a “pull” from the stores, which means most stores end up horrifically overstocked on some lines whilst having a lot of gaps on the shelves)

I have noticed how overcrowded with stock Poundstretcher can be - sometimes a fire/evacuation hazard. I get the feeling the owner of Poundstretcher is forcing what he wants to sell on customers. Probably peddling what he got extremely cheap and not interested in what products people want. That and the 50% off promotion (of double priced items) tells me how his mind works.

As far as I'm concerned they've gone. I quite liked Poundstretcher for certain things, bird food being one; they used to stock larger packs and they were far better value than anywhere else. The shop closed during lockdown and never reopened, sadly.

Poundland has since moved into that location on a temporary basis while the building that they previously occupied is being rebuilt after a fire. I'm really not keen on Poundland, but at least it's in the town centre. B&M and Home Bargains are in a retail park on the other side of town.

I used to like Poundstretcher but that was about 15 or more years ago. I seem to have less reason to go in nowadays. I go in and come back out empty handed. I think Poundshop selling other items that are more then £1 is creating competition.

But I have also been wary of Poundshop - there are items that can be bought for less than £1 elsewhere.

 

[Dai Corner]

But I have also been wary of Poundshop - there are items that can be bought for less than £1 elsewhere.

That's surely the secret to successful discount retailing: give customers the impression that they're getting a bargain when they're not.

 

[johnnychips]

IMO anything in B&M and Home Bargains even major brand items have to be treated as short term availability i.e. a contract agreed for a certain quantity at a price. If they can not get another contract at the same price they will cease to stock that item or if they can get a better one from another supplier swap - I'm thinking as an example Heinz vs Cross&Blackwell for baked beans

I think you are right. In B&M in November, they had 66cl Leffe Blonde for £2.99 (ridiculously cheap) for about a week, then it disappeared. A week later they had 6x50cl cans of the same for £6 - even more ludicrous. I’ve rarely seen these cans on sale even in Belgium. Unfortunately neither have been back since, so I suspect the purchasing department got a great offer on stock that was about to go out of date.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think you are right. In B&M in November, they had 66cl Leffe Blonde for £2.99 (ridiculously cheap) for about a week, then it disappeared. A week later they had 6x50cl cans of the same for £6 - even more ludicrous. I’ve rarely seen these cans on sale even in Belgium. Unfortunately neither have been back since, so I suspect the purchasing department got a great offer on stock that was about to go out of date.

Are we discussing the actual possibility of B&M Stores disappearing or just cheap beer buying opportunities?