Driver service history for my ex-driver dad - Newton Heath, Patricroft?

[Daszer]

Hi all, new here so apologies if I have posted this in the wrong forum. My dad passed away in 2018 and was a train driver based in Manchester, first as an engine cleaner in the late 50s then on to fireman, 2nd man and driver in the late 60s onwards. I wondered if anyone knew if there is anywhere I could find info either about his service history or really anything about the type of trains he would have driven or fired? I know he originally worked out of Newton Heath, then Patricroft and Victoria for many years. All help gratefully appreciated.

 

[ComUtoR]

I have no doubts that his last TOC would have a set of records outlining his competency etc. Contact his last TOC and I would hope they could respond favorably.

 

[Armada]

Assuming your Dad was in Aslef contacting the local branch of any depot he worked at would be worth trying. There maybe people who remembered working with him and there’s a good chance they would have a rough idea of the historic work their depot did.

 

[driver9000]

His last employer (or their successor) which I'm guessing was First North Western or Northern as you mentioned Victoria may have his service record archived. It is equally likely they have been destroyed sadly but you could also try the various Facebook groups such as ASLEF past and present or Manchesters Railways for colleagues who may remember him.

 

[Daszer]

I have no doubts that his last TOC would have a set of records outlining his competency etc. Contact his last TOC and I would hope they could respond favorably.

That's great thanks, can I ask what TOC means please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2023 ==


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2023 ==

His last employer (or their successor) which I'm guessing was First North Western or Northern as you mentioned Victoria may have his service record archived. It is equally likely they have been destroyed sadly but you could also try the various Facebook groups such as ASLEF past and present or Manchesters Railways for colleagues who may remember him.

This is great, thank you. He actually finished in the early 90s due to ill health so would he have still been British Rail? Will definitely look on the facebook groups as well

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2023 ==

Assuming your Dad was in Aslef contacting the local branch of any depot he worked at would be worth trying. There maybe people who remembered working with him and there’s a good chance they would have a rough idea of the historic work their depot did.

Excellent, cheers, will look into that

 

[greatkingrat]

I have no doubts that his last TOC would have a set of records outlining his competency etc. Contact his last TOC and I would hope they could respond favorably.

Do TOCs really still keep records of people who retired 20-30 years ago?

 

[Tramfan]

That's great thanks, can I ask what TOC means please?

It stands for "Train Operating Company"

 

[swt_passenger]

That's great thanks, can I ask what TOC means please?

TOC is short for a “train operating company”, eg post privatisation companies like Northern, TPE etc. But as you’ve now mentioned your dad finished before privatisation I’d be assuming the various local successor companies probably won’t have his records, it might be best to stick to the suggestions about ASLEF.

 

[Daszer]

TOC is short for a “train operating company”, eg post privatisation companies like Northern, TPE etc. But as you’ve now mentioned your dad finished before privatisation I’d be assuming the various local successor companies probably won’t have his records, it might be best to stick to the suggestions about ASLEF.

cracking information, thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2023 ==

It stands for "Train Operating Company"

brill cheers

 

[driver9000]

Do TOCs really still keep records of people who retired 20-30 years ago?

When I first started we had a couple of huge filing cabinets full of staff records for employees who were long retired. Whether they still keep them is another matter....

 

[Daszer]

When I first started we had a couple of huge filing cabinets full of staff records for employees who were long retired. Whether they still keep them is another matter....

That's a good fact to know at least it gives some hope, cheers

 

[ComUtoR]

Do TOCs really still keep records of people who retired 20-30 years ago?

We have a huge digital archive of data. Lots of scanned in files from years ago just sits about on a server somewhere. The physical files I have no idea but there are boxes of old Diver files sitting about in our depot.

We.have Drivers who started in the late 60's who still drive trains. Personally I'm only 20yrs in and Know my paperwork still exists.

Start somewhere. See what happens. Everything is worth a try.

 

[Daszer]

We have a huge digital archive of data. Lots of scanned in files from years ago just sits about on a server somewhere. The physical files I have no idea but there are boxes of old Diver files sitting about in our depot.

We.have Drivers who started in the late 60's who still drive trains. Personally I'm only 20yrs in and Know my paperwork still exists.

Start somewhere. See what happens. Everything is worth a try.

This is brilliant to know - I'll give Aslef branches a try first off and maybe the NRM? Wondering if they might have anything in their archives

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2023 ==

A little further info on the quest for you all as you have all been so helpful - this is a first attempt at piecing together his service history from my own memories though I may need help with the dates please. I was wondering for example how long he might have been an engine cleaner and fireman for as I am not sure what was the usual period. If anyone has an idea that would great thanks, no worries if not.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I believe Patricroft closed as an operational depot in July, 1968 (maybe 3rd of July? Someone here will know.) Certainly I 'bashed' the shed in late July, and there was no obvious activity - just maybe 25 steam locos, all dead.
It may have remained as a signing-on point - so yes, he may have become a second man after steam finished.
People around at that time are disappearing fast these days, as you will be aware, but there was the interest in the last workings was very intense. Another site you may find worth visiting is Lostock Hall - let me see if it's still online
Yes - go here

Tales from the Footplate

www.prestonstation.org.uk

Obviously it's a different shed - but people on there were almost all involved with the last months of steam, which includes Patricroft, so there is a lot of knowledge on there. Catch 'em before they go too.

The story goes that the shed foreman at Patricroft were dedicated enough to make sure his best Standard 5 4-6-0 was transferred to Carnforth for another month's work in traffic rather than rot at the depot awaiting the cutter's torch, so you can see people (some at least) cared about their job. It was the last one in service.

Edit: I see you asked what types he might have fired. The types of loco at Newton Heath and Patricroft changed a great deal between 1956 and 1968.

Especially up to about 1962 (there is no specific date, of course), but up to then there would have been a large number of pre-grouping locos around - things like the (rather lovely, IMO) Lancashire and Yorkshire 2-4-2Ts. I presume these would have been largely relegated to lighter services by 1958, but I don't know. Maybe they still worked some peak hour trains towards eg Man Exchange - Blackburn.

There would have been ageing Aspinal 0-6-0s and stuff like that too.

I think Newton Heath had a number of Jubilees, later Scots and standard Britannias for Manchester/Liverpool - Glasgow/Edboro services until about 1965 or so.

I think Patricroft was a more 'mundane' shed, without any 'glamour' express turns like N Heath. Certainly towards the end it was largely Black 5s and Standard 5s - I think these maybe worked parcels and semi-fasts and stopping services towards Liverpool - not sure if they worked over to Leeds, or if they were Newton Heath turns.

I think Patricroft had quite a few of the Caprotti valve gear Standard 5s, which had slighlty different driving characteristics to the far more common Walschearts motion. This was a late attempt to improve the efficiency of the steam locos. I suppose it had 8Fs too, I can't remember.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I think Patricroft was a more 'mundane' shed, without any 'glamour' express turns like N Heath. Certainly towards the end it was largely Black 5s and Standard 5s - I think these maybe worked parcels and semi-fasts and stopping services towards Liverpool - not sure if they worked over to Leeds, or if they were Newton Heath turns.

I think Patricroft had quite a few of the Caprotti valve gear Standard 5s, which had slighlty different driving characteristics to the far more common Walschearts motion. This was a late attempt to improve the efficiency of the steam locos. I suppose it had 8Fs too, I can't remember.

Didn't Patricroft also provide locos for North Wales services during the early 1960's?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Didn't Patricroft also provide locos for North Wales services during the early 1960's?

Quite probably, yes. This would fit with its allocation of Class 5 mixed-traffic power, I'd guess. Coming from darn sarf, my pocket money/paper round income/parental oversight didn't let me get up to Manchester alone until 1967. I'm sure there'll be some more expert knowledge on this forum - pity the OP did not put "Newton Heath, Patricroft" in the title line. That would help.

 

[Daszer]

I believe Patricroft closed as an operational depot in July, 1968 (maybe 3rd of July? Someone here will know.) Certainly I 'bashed' the shed in late July, and there was no obvious activity - just maybe 25 steam locos, all dead.
It may have remained as a signing-on point - so yes, he may have become a second man after steam finished.
People around at that time are disappearing fast these days, as you will be aware, but there was the interest in the last workings was very intense. Another site you may find worth visiting is Lostock Hall - let me see if it's still online
Yes - go here

Tales from the Footplate

www.prestonstation.org.uk

Obviously it's a different shed - but people on there were almost all involved with the last months of steam, which includes Patricroft, so there is a lot of knowledge on there. Catch 'em before they go too.

The story goes that the shed foreman at Patricroft were dedicated enough to make sure his best Standard 5 4-6-0 was transferred to Carnforth for another month's work in traffic rather than rot at the depot awaiting the cutter's torch, so you can see people (some at least) cared about their job. It was the last one in service.

Edit: I see you asked what types he might have fired. The types of loco at Newton Heath and Patricroft changed a great deal between 1956 and 1968.

Especially up to about 1962 (there is no specific date, of course), but up to then there would have been a large number of pre-grouping locos around - things like the (rather lovely, IMO) Lancashire and Yorkshire 2-4-2Ts. I presume these would have been largely relegated to lighter services by 1958, but I don't know. Maybe they still worked some peak hour trains towards eg Man Exchange - Blackburn.

There would have been ageing Aspinal 0-6-0s and stuff like that too.

I think Newton Heath had a number of Jubilees, later Scots and standard Britannias for Manchester/Liverpool - Glasgow/Edboro services until about 1965 or so.

I think Patricroft was a more 'mundane' shed, without any 'glamour' express turns like N Heath. Certainly towards the end it was largely Black 5s and Standard 5s - I think these maybe worked parcels and semi-fasts and stopping services towards Liverpool - not sure if they worked over to Leeds, or if they were Newton Heath turns.

I think Patricroft had quite a few of the Caprotti valve gear Standard 5s, which had slighlty different driving characteristics to the far more common Walschearts motion. This was a late attempt to improve the efficiency of the steam locos. I suppose it had 8Fs too, I can't remember.

This is excellent details, cheers, yes that starts to ring a bell now with much of what you are saying about the loco types he mentioned and also the closing of Patricroft at that time would fit well too. He definitely fired Brittanias as one of his favourite stories was firing 70015 Apollo and coming out of a tunnel in the dead of night with flames on the front wheels (due to some oil leak would it have been?) we used this as a memory for him when his mind was going bless him and got a large picture of it framed that's in front of me now with "Flaming Apollo" at the bottom for him to tell the carers about. It may have not been as dramatic as he told it but of course we went with it as he really come alive when he spoke about it. I know for a fact that his routes were local NW, so Yorkshire and the Lakes and also North Wales and Crewe etc as you would expect. I had more than a couple of rides when I was a kid with him, first in the passenger coach behind then he had me in the cab a couple of times, very naughty and a strict no-no at the time I'm guessing but I was well away from everything I could mess with and the cabbed ones were only on slow freight if I remember correctly. Happy memories indeed, if only I knew the true value of it at the time!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2023 ==

Quite probably, yes. This would fit with its allocation of Class 5 mixed-traffic power, I'd guess. Coming from darn sarf, my pocket money/paper round income/parental oversight didn't let me get up to Manchester alone until 1967. I'm sure there'll be some more expert knowledge on this forum - pity the OP did not put "Newton Heath, Patricroft" in the title line. That would help.

Ah sorry about that with the title as a new poster I didn't think of that!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2023 ==

Quite probably, yes. This would fit with its allocation of Class 5 mixed-traffic power, I'd guess. Coming from darn sarf, my pocket money/paper round income/parental oversight didn't let me get up to Manchester alone until 1967. I'm sure there'll be some more expert knowledge on this forum - pity the OP did not put "Newton Heath, Patricroft" in the title line. That would help.

Have edited it into the title now, thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2023 ==

Re Patricroft locomotives, I've just stumbled upon this listing with a list of trains there in the period he would have been working on them, quite emotional to have an insight into what he was in and around at the time http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2013/03/patricroft-1960-1964.html

 

[70014IronDuke]

This is excellent details, cheers, yes that starts to ring a bell now with much of what you are saying about the loco types he mentioned and also the closing of Patricroft at that time would fit well too. He definitely fired Brittanias as one of his favourite stories was firing 70015 Apollo and coming out of a tunnel in the dead of night with flames on the front wheels (due to some oil leak would it have been?) we used this as a memory for him when his mind was going bless him and got a large picture of it framed that's in front of me now with "Flaming Apollo" at the bottom for him to tell the carers about.

Flames on the front bogie sounds dangerous to me!

It may have not been as dramatic as he told it but of course we went with it as he really come alive when he spoke about it. I know for a fact that his routes were local NW, so Yorkshire and the Lakes and also North Wales and Crewe etc as you would expect.

I wouldn't necessarily expect Crewe (that would mostly be from the LNW line, ie Man Picc, and would normally be where Longsight crews would work), but I suppose Patricroft was a LNW shed originally (with N Heath being L&Y), and could work to Crewe via connections at Earlestown or some such. (I'm not aware of all the line details around there.)

I had more than a couple of rides when I was a kid with him, first in the passenger coach behind then he had me in the cab a couple of times, very naughty and a strict no-no at the time I'm guessing but I was well away from everything I could mess with and the cabbed ones were only on slow freight if I remember correctly. Happy memories indeed, if only I knew the true value of it at the time!

Cab rides were definitely against the rules, but much more common then that later. Today, I guess it would be a sackable offence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2023 ==


Re Patricroft locomotives, I've just stumbled upon this listing with a list of trains there in the period he would have been working on them, quite emotional to have an insight into what he was in and around at the time http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2013/03/patricroft-1960-1964.html

Yes, interesting. Patricroft did have some Jubilees allocated earlier. The most interesting allocation for me on that list there is the 82xxx tanks in 1965-6. I wonder what they worked?

 

[Daszer]

Flames on the front bogie sounds dangerous to me!


I wouldn't necessarily expect Crewe (that would mostly be from the LNW line, ie Man Picc, and would normally be where Longsight crews would work), but I suppose Patricroft was a LNW shed originally (with N Heath being L&Y), and could work to Crewe via connections at Earlestown or some such. (I'm not aware of all the line details around there.)


Cab rides were definitely against the rules, but much more common then that later. Today, I guess it would be a sackable offence.



Yes, interesting. Patricroft did have some Jubilees allocated earlier. The most interesting allocation for me on that list there is the 82xxx tanks in 1965-6. I wonder what they worked?

Haha yeah re the bogie will be interesting to see if someone could come up with a possible explanation! Crewe may be me misremembering and as Patricroft closed so early in his career could it have been when he was working later from Vic and/or Newton Heath (I think he spent some more time there later)

 

[Ken H]

Try the National Archives at Kew. As BR was a government body some of their paperwork may be there. Or try Manchester archives (Part of the council). They may be there. Or the National Railway Museum archives. Long shot but may be worth a try. You may have to prove your relationship to him - identity theft laws.

 

[Morayshire]

British Railways Illustrated did a two part article on Patricroft which might be of interest for general background. Vol 26. Jan and Feb issues from 2017.

 

[Daszer]

Try the National Archives at Kew. As BR was a government body some of their paperwork may be there. Or try Manchester archives (Part of the council). They may be there. Or the National Railway Museum archives. Long shot but may be worth a try. You may have to prove your relationship to him - identity theft laws.

great tips, will look into all that, much appreciated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2023 ==

British Railways Illustrated did a two part article on Patricroft which might be of interest for general background. Vol 26. Jan and Feb issues from 2017.

Ooh brilliant, have just managed to get a couple of back copies, thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2023 ==

Another update but this (pre-grouping? Learning as I am going along here) Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway map on the war memorial at Victoria rings a lot of bells as I recall him talking about driving to all these places apart from Goole and Hull. Sidenote, this is one of my favourite memories, gazing up at it as a lad when we went to collect his wages and head off to the Railway Club down the steps opposite, mid 70s.

I've also remembered that I have his ID card and maybe his letter of engine cleaner job acceptance in the loft and I can post pics if anyone would like to see them?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2023 ==

Also I don't know if I have mentioned it yet but his name was Jack (actually John by birth) Birchall in the off chance anyone ever knew him.

 

[Ken H]

...
I've also remembered that I have his ID card and maybe his letter of engine cleaner job acceptance in the loft and I can post pics if anyone would like to see them?
...

Check them carefully for any reference numbers etc. They may be the key to your searches.

 

[Daszer]

Check them carefully for any reference numbers etc. They may be the key to your searches.

a very good point, thanks

 

[Springs Branch]

I think Patricroft was a more 'mundane' shed, without any 'glamour' express turns like N Heath. Certainly towards the end it was largely Black 5s and Standard 5s - I think these maybe worked parcels and semi-fasts and stopping services towards Liverpool - not sure if they worked over to Leeds, or if they were Newton Heath turns.

I know for a fact that his routes were local NW, so Yorkshire and the Lakes and also North Wales and Crewe etc as you would expect.

In terms of the routes which the OP's dad would have worked from Patricroft, I have a book which includes a photo of the loco allocations board at Patricroft shed. The image is dated as 24 March 1968 (a Sunday), so a couple of months before closure.

This shows a large wall-mounted blackboard (in need of a new coat of blackboard paint by this time) listing the various duties for which Patricroft provided the motive power, together with chalked numbers of locos assigned for the next day's work (i.e. Monday 25 March 1968).

The photo is someone's copyright, so I can't really scan on here, but here is the list of trains, destinations and the loco assigned. Some of the chalked numbers are illegible - I've only included what is fairly unambiguous. The {diesel} designations all seem to be what would become Class 25. {diesel shunter} means a Class 08. It's not a bad list for a shed on its last legs before closure:-

0110 Barrow {diesel}
0118 Chester {nothing allocated}
0125 Wigan 73000
0215 Leeds (Relieve)
0323 Liverpool (Relieve)
0330 Bescot {diesel}
0425 Normanton {diesel}
0435 Bank 73050 {presumably Victoria - Mile Platting}
0455 Birkenhead {nothing allocated}
0508 Dewsnap 48033
0525 Mold Junction {nothing allocated}
0553 Trips 48390
0600 Edge Hill D7634
0605 Down Side D12060 {diesel shunter}
0615 Brindle Heath 48325
0626 Ship Canal D3335 {diesel shunter}
0620 Up Side D3373 {diesel shunter}
0720 Atherton 48338 {presumably Bag Lane}
0730 Ordsall Lane D3860 {diesel shunter}
0900 Ballast 73128
1021 Mold Junction 73010
1035 Astley Green 48282

Other destinations shown on the blackboard (running on other days of the week) were:-
Bamfurlong
Brewery {Sidings}
Calder Bridge
Garston
Healey Mills
Heaton Norris
Heysham
Moston
Mottram
Ribble Sidings
Stalybridge
Stockport
Windsor Bridge
York

 

[Daszer]

In terms of the routes which the OP's dad would have worked from Patricroft, I have a book which includes a photo of the loco allocations board at Patricroft shed. The image is dated as 24 March 1968 (a Sunday), so a couple of months before closure.

This shows a large wall-mounted blackboard (in need of a new coat of blackboard paint by this time) listing the various duties for which Patricroft provided the motive power, together with chalked numbers of locos assigned for the next day's work (i.e. Monday 25 March 1968).

The photo is someone's copyright, so I can't really scan on here, but here is the list of trains, destinations and the loco assigned. Some of the chalked numbers are illegible - I've only included what is fairly unambiguous. The {diesel} designations all seem to be what would become Class 25. {diesel shunter} means a Class 08. It's not a bad list for a shed on its last legs before closure:-

0110 Barrow {diesel}
0118 Chester {nothing allocated}
0125 Wigan 73000
0215 Leeds (Relieve)
0323 Liverpool (Relieve)
0330 Bescot {diesel}
0425 Normanton {diesel}
0435 Bank 73050 {presumably Victoria - Mile Platting}
0455 Birkenhead {nothing allocated}
0508 Dewsnap 48033
0525 Mold Junction {nothing allocated}
0553 Trips 48390
0600 Edge Hill D7634
0605 Down Side D12060 {diesel shunter}
0615 Brindle Heath 48325
0626 Ship Canal D3335 {diesel shunter}
0620 Up Side D3373 {diesel shunter}
0720 Atherton 48338 {presumably Bag Lane}
0730 Ordsall Lane D3860 {diesel shunter}
0900 Ballast 73128
1021 Mold Junction 73010
1035 Astley Green 48282

Other destinations shown on the blackboard (running on other days of the week) were:-
Bamfurlong
Brewery {Sidings}
Calder Bridge
Garston
Healey Mills
Heaton Norris
Heysham
Moston
Mottram
Ribble Sidings
Stalybridge
Stockport
Windsor Bridge
York

This is a massive help, thanks for taking the time to transcribe all that! I will add it to the file I am gathering about his service history.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

Thanks to everyone for all your help so far, it has really been appreciated. From the above and some documents I've found it is looking like I need to make a couple of revisions to his original service history as follows, the main one being that he started at Agecroft and wasn't at Newton Heath until much later. Still unsure about when he went to Patricroft but he talked a lot about being based there and was in fact pictured in a turntable accident picture in the "Salford in the days of Steam" book by Paul Shackcloth (pg 134 if you own it, he's the capped fella with the hands behind his back looking up to the left of the loco):


The evidence for this is firstly his original job offer here (addresses are not hidden because of you guys on here as I am sure you are good people but for anyone doing an internet image search in general as our family still live there):

Also his Sept 1965 marriage licence stating he was a fireman:

Then this driver offer from 1979 for Newton Heath. He had definitely passed out as a driver possibly as early as 9 years before then so could this have been a case of simply filling a new driver vacancy at NH?

I hope that all helps in the continued quest. I have also emailed a couple of places mentioned so will post any responses I receive.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

This is a massive help, thanks for taking the time to transcribe all that! I will add it to the file I am gathering about his service history.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

Thanks to everyone for all your help so far, it has really been appreciated. From the above and some documents I've found it is looking like I need to make a couple of revisions to his original service history as follows, the main one being that he started at Agecroft and wasn't at Newton Heath until much later. Still unsure about when he went to Patricroft but he talked a lot about being based there and was in fact pictured in a turntable accident picture in the "Salford in the days of Steam" book by Paul Shackcloth (pg 134 if you own it, he's the capped fella with the hands behind his back looking up to the left of the loco):


The evidence for this is firstly his original job offer here (addresses are not hidden because of you guys on here as I am sure you are good people but because some of our family still live there and I have not asked permission for me to reveal the address):

Also his Sept 1965 marriage licence stating he was a fireman:

Then this driver offer from 1979 for Newton Heath. He had definitely passed out as a driver possibly as early as 9 years before then so could this have been a case of simply filling a new driver vacancy at NH?

I hope that all helps in the continued quest. I have also emailed a couple of places mentioned so will post any responses I receive.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I have found my last logbook of 'bashes'. I did Patricroft on the evening of July 23, 1968. I guess it would have been about 17.00 hrs (because after this I went to Newton Heath, and still had to get a train to Euston for an overnight kip on the Barrow sleeper. I had an LMR rover ticket at the time.)
Locos on depot were (in the order that I saw them):

48390, 48170, 48033, 48491, 73050, D2864, 73143. 48549, 48267, 73135, 73142, 73134, 44777, 48327, 73010, 48212, 73138, 48374, 48325, 48467, 73125, 73133, 48338, 45187, 48282.

Which is 25 locos (meaning my memory estimation was spot on! Except I didn't remember the diesel shunter. I don't know if that was withdrawn or not. ) I suspect the total may have been a few locos more on the date of closure, ie some had been dragged away for scrap, but don't know.

As I remember it, the shed was devoid of any staff whatsoever. Goodness knows what would happen to it today if it was left unstaffed for so long.

Assuming the above locos were all allocated to Patricroft, I expect your dad would have fired all of them, bar the shunter

 

[Taunton]

Patricroft was a onetime-LNWR shed, and to the end did work on the "north side" LNWR lines at Manchester, through Exchange station. Newton Heath and Agecroft were ex-L&Y sheds, and despite being merged in 1923, they still stuck to their former territories to quite an extent, it was only diesels coming that brought things together. Turns to Liverpool Lime Street, Leeds, Chester and North Wales, Preston etc and Crewe via Chat Moss. The main Manchester docks (actually in Salford) were also their territory.

The Patricroft Standard 5 73140 which turned up at Bristol TM one summer Saturday afternoon in 1964 was considered the sight of the month.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The 1979 letter appears to be when he got his first Drivers job. He was a “relief driver” up to then, which was a term used for a passed man, a second man who was “passed” for driving.

You could wait several years for your Drivers job, depending on whether you wanted to move depots and the likelihood of vacancies at your own.

 

[Daszer]

I have found my last logbook of 'bashes'. I did Patricroft on the evening of July 23, 1968. I guess it would have been about 17.00 hrs (because after this I went to Newton Heath, and still had to get a train to Euston for an overnight kip on the Barrow sleeper. I had an LMR rover ticket at the time.)
Locos on depot were (in the order that I saw them):

48390, 48170, 48033, 48491, 73050, D2864, 73143. 48549, 48267, 73135, 73142, 73134, 44777, 48327, 73010, 48212, 73138, 48374, 48325, 48467, 73125, 73133, 48338, 45187, 48282.

Which is 25 locos (meaning my memory estimation was spot on! Except I didn't remember the diesel shunter. I don't know if that was withdrawn or not. ) I suspect the total may have been a few locos more on the date of closure, ie some had been dragged away for scrap, but don't know.

As I remember it, the shed was devoid of any staff whatsoever. Goodness knows what would happen to it today if it was left unstaffed for so long.

Assuming the above locos were all allocated to Patricroft, I expect your dad would have fired all of them, bar the shunter

Wow that's amazing! Not only the numbers but to find a connection with someone who was there at the time is incredible, thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

The 1979 letter appears to be when he got his first Drivers job. He was a “relief driver” up to then, which was a term used for a passed man, a second man who was “passed” for driving.

You could wait several years for your Drivers job, depending on whether you wanted to move depots and the likelihood of vacancies at your own.

Ah that makes sense, thanks. I know that when he sneaked me on the cab it would have been 74-76 and obviously he was on his own then so he may have been a relief driver for a while!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

Patricroft was a onetime-LNWR shed, and to the end did work on the "north side" LNWR lines at Manchester, through Exchange station. Newton Heath and Agecroft were ex-L&Y sheds, and despite being merged in 1923, they still stuck to their former territories to quite an extent, it was only diesels coming that brought things together. Turns to Liverpool Lime Street, Leeds, Chester and North Wales, Preston etc and Crewe via Chat Moss. The main Manchester docks (actually in Salford) were also their territory.

The Patricroft Standard 5 73140 which turned up at Bristol TM one summer Saturday afternoon in 1964 was considered the sight of the month.

Cracking information, cheers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

Patricroft was a onetime-LNWR shed, and to the end did work on the "north side" LNWR lines at Manchester, through Exchange station. Newton Heath and Agecroft were ex-L&Y sheds, and despite being merged in 1923, they still stuck to their former territories to quite an extent, it was only diesels coming that brought things together. Turns to Liverpool Lime Street, Leeds, Chester and North Wales, Preston etc and Crewe via Chat Moss. The main Manchester docks (actually in Salford) were also their territory.

The Patricroft Standard 5 73140 which turned up at Bristol TM one summer Saturday afternoon in 1964 was considered the sight of the month.

That's interesting as those diesel routes were all worked by him as I remember him talking about them which also explains why I earlier recalled him mentioning Crewe. He never did much Manchester Dock runs I don't think though he did mention once that he had driven a shunter across the road into the great northern warehouse in the city centre and also being day shunting for a while back at agecroft which I wonder were both because he was a relief driver?