Woking - Basingstoke (near Hook) landslip (15/01/23)

[Flange Squeal]

Maybe if SWR contacted the local schools to ask which companies provided school transport, they could find a few coach companies who might be able to help them out for at least part of the day.

Most of the local school bus/coach operators are already approved (there is a process you must go through first to become a supplier) contractors for First Travel Solutions and regularly seen on rail replacements at weekends anyway.

But even the school-only bus operators with just morning/afternoon work would still be needed elsewhere for a few hours morning and afternoon, plus a middle of the day break for their drivers to comply with driving hours regulations, so it’d be questionable how much use you’d get out of them anyway. Maybe 0930-1330, and probably not much later as after school runs (which can often see a run for a school finishing about 1500 followed by a college run an hour or two later) the drivers would be limited how much more they could do before they’d be thinking about rest period for work the next day.

There may well be some casual drivers on some’s books available, or a bit of spare winter capacity at some coach operators, but one can only presume if they wanted to set up a rail replacement bus operation then they’d have thought to phone bus companies.

 

[Llanigraham]

School buses are also in use during the day doing things like school trips, transport to sports facilities, etc. And I don;t know about that area but around here most of their drivers are part-timers who only want to do limited hours.

 

[Brush 4]

As always, the past can provide clues. How was the 1961 landslip dealt with? Were there replacement buses? Were trains diverted or just cancelled? How many trains still worked past the site? There must be an archive somewhere.....

 

[zwk500]

As always, the past can provide clues. How was the 1961 landslip dealt with? Were there replacement buses? Were trains diverted or just cancelled? How many trains still worked past the site? There must be an archive somewhere.....

What did the rulebook look like?

 

[Timetraveller]

As always, the past can provide clues. How was the 1961 landslip dealt with? Were there replacement buses? Were trains diverted or just cancelled? How many trains still worked past the site? There must be an archive somewhere.....

The line from Alton to Winchester was still open then

 

[Dibbo4025]

Make that one train every two hours currently hopefully as the week progresses the box, pilotman and drivers will get into the swing of it so they can deliver 1tph at least.

1tph isn't going to be feasible with only 1 pilot - briefing, double shunt at Farnborough, run to Basingstoke, reverse and return is over an hour

 

[brad465]

Did the liquid mud by any chance come from the adjacent sewage works, which may have been flooded due to the heavy rainfall? If so, it may be rather less pleasant than ordinary mud! However looking on the bright side, if that were the case and it has been boiled by the third rail, at least the germs will have been exterminated.

Surprised it hasn't blown something by now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2023 ==


I doubt if they'll bother given the excuse of 'Act of God'. That's today's railway mantra - 'if in doubt, give up'.

Line flooded, track circuits down Sway and Brockenhurst area

Maybe the Government could bring in some anti-storm legislation that ensures that storms cannot stop a minimum level of service being allowed, including provisions that order weather to not drop more than a set limit of rainfall in a given period, and ordering a maximum wind speed to be in place

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

1tph isn't going to be feasible with only 1 pilot - briefing, double shunt at Farnborough, run to Basingstoke, reverse and return is over an hour

The pilotman can stay at Farnborough to brief each driver and issue 3191 but it all takes time so it was never going to work without rewriting the schedules. The shunts at Farnborough are at least signalled.
Anyhow they've realised that and abandoned through working from tomorrow so somewhat immaterial now.

 

[endecotp]

Tuesday plan

Weymouth - Basingstoke
Portsmouth - Basingstoke
Exeter St Davids/Salisbury - Basingstoke
Basingstoke - Waterloo stoppers cancelled
Basingstoke - Woking shuttle calling at Farnborough Main and Brookwood
Hook, Winchfield or Fleet to remain closed

Nothing via Guildford?

Editted to add:

The normal services from Southampton to Victoria, and from Portsmouth to Waterloo, seem to be running; will these be quicker and/or less overcrowded than via Reading or the Basingstoke-Woking shuttle ?

 

[WizCastro197]

Nothing via Guildford?

Via Guildford is fine as it isn’t in the affected area. Only the Portsmouth-Waterloo via Basingstoke is the only service that is being truncated.

This is what SWR say:

The wider SWR network will be operating as usual (e.g. suburban London services and those between London and Portsmouth via Guildford, Reading or Windsor), however these services may be busier than usual as a result of this incident.

Live Train Times & Travel Information | South Western Railway

Our journey planner provides live train times and train disruption information. Plan your journey and check for changes that might affect your journey

www.southwesternrailway.com

 

[Bumpkin]

Via Guildford is fine as it isn’t in the affected area. This is what SWR say:

I think they mean no diversions via Guildford as the Weymouths we’re doing this weekend just gone and typically do when any possessions are taken in the Basingstoke area.

 

[D6130]

Nothing via Guildford?

I read that as meaning 'Is nothing being diverted via Guildford?'.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I know flooding is beyond control of TOCs/NR, but SWR don't seem too bothered about helping people out here - wouldn't it be reasonable to allow ticket acceptance on GWR, especially are they are the same group? (This response to someone querying travelling on the Portsmouth route today)

https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1614575816918138880?t=iNJVGV5YiGU8DdDV2nbRQw&s=19

Interestingly, there was acceptance on Sunday morning (15 Jan), before the landslip was reported.

On Sunday morning, there was a broken rail in the Haslemere (or was it Havant?) area. So SWR mainline services had completely collapsed.

On that day, the Weymouths were diverted via Haslemere so most (if not all) the Portsmouths and Weymouths were cancelled (in both directions).

At Guildford, passengers could change for RRBs (for engineering works) to get to Basingstoke, Winchester, Andover. The only way to get to Guildford was by the 2tph Clandon stopping services, so they were heaving (No via Woking stoppers due to engineering works).

Anyway in the morning, the SWR website indicated ticket acceptance on GWR to Exeter (and some other destinations which I don't remember)

In the afternoon, it became a Do Not Travel and the GWR ticket acceptance was removed on their website. Instead, it said tickets for travel on 15 Jan were valid on 16 Jan. This was still before the landslip was officially reported on their website (as mentioned upthread, the incident was already known on Saturday night, 14 Jan).

 

[swt_passenger]

I read that as meaning 'Is nothing being diverted via Guildford'.

+1. It’s quite a valid question, I’m sure it’s been done on weekdays before at short notice, the first few days after the Eastleigh derailment 3 years ago may have been an example?

 

[Kite159]

I hope all the GWR services between Reading & Basingstoke will be 3 coach units, and XC run the limited 2 hourly service as pairs of voyagers as I suspect there will be a good number of passengers going via Reading then either to Paddington or towards Waterloo on the slow route.

Shame SWR can't run an hourly service to Reading (maybe extension of the stopper from Salisbury) to help spread the loads, but I guess platform space at Reading will be limited on a weekday compared to a Sunday (or even on a Saturday)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I think they mean no diversions via Guildford as the Weymouths we’re doing this weekend just gone and typically do when any possessions are taken in the Basingstoke area.

The South Western Website is very clear they don't want you to travel to any destination using the Main Line.

You are also advised against all but essential travel over the coming days on services which would usually pass through the area, on the South West Main Line. This includes services between London and Basingstoke, Bournemouth, Southampton, Weymouth, Salisbury, and Exeter.

Firstly this isn't of SWRs making but they've had all day to at least put the alternative routes on this page, however elongated, but the best they can offer is Traveline for local buses its very poor and i do hope passengers are complaining to their MPs and Transport Focus.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

Make that one train every two hours currently hopefully as the week progresses the box, pilotman and drivers will get into the swing of it so they can deliver 1tph at least.

I decided to go from Basingstoke into London via Reading, as my GWR was just about leave I saw a SWR on its way to Waterloo. I counted only a handful of passengers on board. My train to Reading was quite full.

 

[Sm5]

The South Western Website is very clear they don't want you to travel to any destination using the Main Line.

the problem with abandoning passengers and telling them not to travel, is they listen, find another way and dont come back later.

They should attempt a minimal service, if they want to retain a customer base.

nothing stops 159’s going to Reading, even if it means passengers going to Waterloo on SWR via Ascot.

At least this is showing that LSWR is not essential, maybe more cuts could be learned from this, does Exeter even need a London service if its able to survive without ?

 

[Kite159]

the problem with abandoning passengers and telling them not to travel, is they listen, find another way and dont come back later.

They should attempt a minimal service, if they want to retain a customer base.

nothing stops 159’s going to Reading, even if it means passengers going to Waterloo on SWR via Ascot.

At least this is showing that LSWR is not essential, maybe more cuts could be learned from this, does Exeter even need a London service if its able to survive without ?

However the Exeter - Waterloo services serve more than just Exeter to London. It's just the cheaper route due to being formally NSE.

I suspect if both Exeter - London routes had the same pricing then the faster GWR services will be a lot busier.

 

[Bread & cheese]

An aerial view from the Daily Telegraph showing trees growing on the embankment below the unsupported track.

 

[Horizon22]

Where do you think they can get spare buses and drivers from on a weekday? Bus services all around are being cancelled due to driver shortages, and even without that those drivers and buses/weren't sitting around doing nothing waiting for a handy train disruption to occur.

And indeed SWR even have a dedicated section about this on their website as an ongoing issue.

 

[pompeyfan]

The issue with diverts to Reading or diverts via Havant is that the crews on a lot of these services won’t have the correct route knowledge, and the workload to reallocate crew with required route knowledge but keep them within their T&C for meal break and finish time is impossible for the 6 people (4 people overnight) that do it.

The issue that will come to light today is crew that bring stuff up or down via Basingstoke then working other service groups away will not be in position for their next working. Barton Mill will also not be able to cope with the volume of movements.

 

[quartile]

Hopefully cutting the scope will allow SWR to run the remaining sections well. Monday I came up to Waterloo from Farnborough North via Guildford all ok but heading home I went and caught the 1720 southampton central which was stopping at Woking, Farnborough main and Basingstoke. At 1717 the guard announced this was the 1705 first stop Basingstoke. Most of the train got off and crammed back on the concourse.
1715 Portsmouth Harbour cancelled 1730 Portsmouth Harbour only 8 car and rammed and leaving people behind. Alton services at this time also had issues.
SWR twitter unhelpfully said that someone with tickets from Fleet could only travel from Aldershot ( short drive ) at the Guards discretion. Can't understand why ticket acceptance within SWR wasn't standard policy let alone on other operators.

 

[The Ham]

the problem with abandoning passengers and telling them not to travel, is they listen, find another way and dont come back later.

They should attempt a minimal service, if they want to retain a customer base.

nothing stops 159’s going to Reading, even if it means passengers going to Waterloo on SWR via Ascot.

At least this is showing that LSWR is not essential, maybe more cuts could be learned from this, does Exeter even need a London service if its able to survive without ?

Whilst Hook and Winchfield aren't big stations, pre Covid they still had about 800,000 (on a par with Tring and Marker Harborough) and 400,000 passengers a year, Farnborough had about 3 million (Busier than Exeter St David's, Plymouth or either of the main Portsmouth stations).

As such not really the sorts of stations which is they were cut off from the rail network elsewhere that would result in the locals being very happy.

Hook and Winchfield are on a par with the stains in the Torbay area and the number of complaints there were on the suggestion that they'd be cut off in the route via Okehampton was build and Dawlish washed out again was quite significant.

 

[Renternolonger]

I travel on this route every week from Folkestone West to Exeter Central via Honiton on a Super Off-Peak Return with a network railcard (£60.70). I see that ticket acceptance isn't in place. Would I be advised to go via Paddington and then change at Reading and Basingstoke instead? I could either go into Waterloo East or to St Pancras and then Paddington. The difficulty for me is the BR restrictions on that ticket, will they still apply when a service like this is disrupted. Will I indeed even be able to buy that ticket? Still quite a newbie here so apologies if this should go in the fares and ticketing part of the forum.

SWR on twitter say that ticket acceptance is in place with GWR for post landslip ticket purchases but there is no acceptance for the via Bristol route to and from Exeter so for my super off-peak they say:

...you will need to change at Reading and travel via Basingstoke as we do not have ticket acceptance via Bristol

 

[Ant1966]

Obviously the incident itself is beyond anyone's control, and operationally I'm sure everyone is doing what they can, but the ticket acceptance situation is a disgrace. They can't even get their story straight, twitter advises acceptance via Reading in response to specific queries but no mention at all of that on SWR site. In situations like this the railway, collectively, should just suspend all the restrictions and do what it can to help passengers out. Shame on them

 

[Goldfish62]

The South Western Website is very clear they don't want you to travel to any destination using the Main Line.


Firstly this isn't of SWRs making but they've had all day to at least put the alternative routes on this page, however elongated, but the best they can offer is Traveline for local buses its very poor and i do hope passengers are complaining to their MPs and Transport Focus.

This "do not travel" message used at the drop of a hat by all the TOCs only really came in with Covid, but unfortunately they all seem to find it rather convenient to keep using.

Although when prompted on Twitter SWR listed alternative routes and confirmed ticket acceptance via XC and GWR there still nothing on the website. Very poor.

 

[Bill57p9]

SWR on twitter say that ticket acceptance is in place with GWR for post landslip ticket purchases but there is no acceptance for the via Bristol route to and from Exeter so for my super off-peak they say:

...you will need to change at Reading and travel via Basingstoke as we do not have ticket acceptance via Bristol

Presumably you would prefer to travel via Newbury rather than Bristol, which makes this statement even less helpful.

Come to think of it, from a total railway perspective this is crazy: sending you to change at Reading and Basingstoke must be guaranteeing eligibility for a delay repay claim, whereas ticket acceptance via Newbury would at least not be reclaimable.
Though of course real money isn't at stake here: SWR can claim from NR and the whole thing is underwritten by DfT

 

[hermit]

Obviously the incident itself is beyond anyone's control, and operationally I'm sure everyone is doing what they can, but the ticket acceptance situation is a disgrace. They can't even get their story straight, twitter advises acceptance via Reading in response to specific queries but no mention at all of that on SWR site. In situations like this the railway, collectively, should just suspend all the restrictions and do what it can to help passengers out. Shame on them

Absolutely right, the (lack of) information available on the website is a disgrace.

I have an Advance Waterloo to Bournemouth tomorrow. Am I allowed to use it on the normal route at an earlier time than planned in order to mitigate the likely delay? Am I allowed to use any of the slower but feasible routes (Reading, Guildford, Barnham) with this ticket? You would think SWR would be keen to siphon passengers on to these routes in order to reduce pressure on the Woking -Basingstoke shuttles. Why are answers to these questions not readily available? Not good enough by a million miles.

In the event, as my journey starts in Victoria I’ve decided to avoid the hassle and go National Express, which is not much slower even in normal times and whose prices are still dirt cheap.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I hope all the GWR services between Reading & Basingstoke will be 3 coach units, and XC run the limited 2 hourly service as pairs of voyagers as I suspect there will be a good number of passengers going via Reading then either to Paddington or towards Waterloo on the slow route.

Shame SWR can't run an hourly service to Reading (maybe extension of the stopper from Salisbury) to help spread the loads, but I guess platform space at Reading will be limited on a weekday compared to a Sunday (or even on a Saturday)

They tried but a lack of route knowledge meant it wasn't possible sustainably to do as most of the services were getting cancelled.