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Stanlow & Thornton

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Purple Train

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For a year (all but two weeks) now, Stanlow & Thornton has been closed due to the unsafe nature of the footbridge. Are there any plans to repair and reopen it, or will it remain mothballed a la Redcar British Steel and Teesside Airport?
 
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Bletchleyite

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It would not surprise me if that section of line closed completely in May (or at least mothballed if Merseyrail may consider running to Helsby in future), if savings are indeed being sought. I certainly can't see it reopening, it's fundamentally not very useful. The site is the size of a small town - most of it isn't even vaguely in walking distance of the station, while if you're putting a bus on to encourage sustainable travel to work there it could just run from Ellesmere Port.
 

busestrains

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Stanlow & Thornton will probably go the same way as Redcar British Steel and Teesside Airport and shut permanently. I highly doubt they will want to spend money on repairing a footbridge for such a little used station. But extending Merseyrail the short distance from Ellesmere Port to Helsby and giving Ince & Elton a decent service would certainly be a good idea. However even if that happens i think Stanlow & Thornton will likely remain closed.
 

RailWonderer

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All these little used stations won’t have a business case in this era of DfT cost cutting. This might be the perfect excuse to close it down. It will be interesting to see.
 

WesternBiker

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Stanlow & Thornton will probably go the same way as Redcar British Steel and Teesside Airport and shut permanently. I highly doubt they will want to spend money on repairing a footbridge for such a little used station. But extending Merseyrail the short distance from Ellesmere Port to Helsby and giving Ince & Elton a decent service would certainly be a good idea. However even if that happens i think Stanlow & Thornton will likely remain closed.
I was about to say exactly the same thing.

Back in the day, I used to visit the site for work (when fully owned by Shell) and occasionally used the train, when it had a sufficient service to make it worthwhile. Easy to forget the line had two trains an hour for most of the day Monday - Saturday back then (in the 1980s). It would be good to see something decent restored for Ince & Elton and Helsby.
 

Pacef8

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What you don't see is the reticence of security to have any public use the service road even though its a right of way . They are not nice people .
 

frodshamfella

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I was about to say exactly the same thing.

Back in the day, I used to visit the site for work (when fully owned by Shell) and occasionally used the train, when it had a sufficient service to make it worthwhile. Easy to forget the line had two trains an hour for most of the day Monday - Saturday back then (in the 1980s). It would be good to see something decent restored for Ince & Elton and Helsby.

Indeed, if class 777s could progress beyond Ellesmere Port to Ince and Elton and Helsby, it would provide useful onwards connections and give Ince and Elton a useable service.
 

PTR 444

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Indeed, if class 777s could progress beyond Ellesmere Port to Ince and Elton and Helsby, it would provide useful onwards connections and give Ince and Elton a useable service.
The only thing is that Helsby already has a direct and faster service to Liverpool via the Halton Curve, so you would be extending 2tph just to benefit a small population in Ince and Elton. Extending Merseyrail beyond Helsby to Runcorn or Warrington BQ would be much better for connectivity (Ellesmere Port would be just one change from London for example), but at the risk of importing delays onto the rest of the Merseyrail Wirral Line network since it would no longer be self-contained.
 

L401CJF

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Similar to what has been said above, when the line had a decent service in the 80s my dad used it to commute to Stanlow when he worked there along with many colleagues.

I also agree about the security there, you're followed by cameras as soon as you set foot on the platform and almost guaranteed for security pop up to interrogate you
 

bramling

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Similar to what has been said above, when the line had a decent service in the 80s my dad used it to commute to Stanlow when he worked there along with many colleagues.

I also agree about the security there, you're followed by cameras as soon as you set foot on the platform and almost guaranteed for security pop up to interrogate you

Must have been lucky when I alighted others 10 years or so ago. Got off the eastbound train (after the guard doing a double take at the prospect of anyone *actually* alighting there), hung around for as long as it took the train to go to Helsby and back, took plenty of photos, jumped back on the train with no issues.

As the station is presumably all on Network Rail’s land, it isn’t really for security to be getting involved with what happens inside the railway boundary. Obviously if one exits the station then that’s a different matter. In my case I did briefly exit, fortunately didn’t see or hear from anyone.
 

P Binnersley

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I called in on a cycling holiday in August 2020 and took a few photos with no hassle. COVID and it being a Sunday morning may have helped. "Oil Sites Road" is still open to pedestrians and cyclists. The area is very overgrown and you can not see much. the site is a shadow of its former self.

I visited from Chester one evening in the 1990's when it had a decent service (out via Helsby, back via Hooton) and it was much more impressive with the lights and flare stacks.
 

_toommm_

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I also agree about the security there, you're followed by cameras as soon as you set foot on the platform and almost guaranteed for security pop up to interrogate you

I’ve walked from Stanlow several times, and never been followed. Both in daylight and in darkness. Your experience may have been one that doesn’t happen anymore as (admittedly anecdotally) I don’t hear about it happening much anymore.
 

Pacef8

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They called for the police i said go ahead its a public road . They closed the gate surrounded me . The police arrived i complained police asked for access and they said no ! I had to turn around back to eport . I complained to mr madders the local mp but i wasn't a constituent so he wasn't bothered.
 
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Baxenden Bank

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See if you can find an answer
The answer being, at the western end only from the junction of Oil Sites Road / Bridges Road then turning south, under the railway, to the other end of Bridges Road. An interesting route because that part of Bridges Road itself is unadopted and has no apparent rights of use.

More interestingly, who owns Oil Sites Road and therefore who has rights to allow or deny access? I have an old plan which shows 'Manchester Ship Canal Company's Estate coloured Light Green' and 'Land acquired by industrial undertakings coloured Dark Green'. The land between the proper railway and Oil Sites Road is coloured light green. The land on the north side of Oil Sites Road is coloured dark green. The road itself is uncoloured, there is slight misregistration with the colouring blocks but definitely a white space between the blocks of colour. Now that is an old plan (but undated) and MSC may have sold off their landholding when the private railway and sidings ceased to function at this location. One for historians!

Eastham and Stanlow estate plan reduced.jpg
Image shows an old plan of Manchester Ship Canal landholdings in the Eastham and Stanlow area.
Eastham and Stanlow estate plan snip.jpg
Source: the internet
 
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Ianigsy

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I may be able to look into the ownership later in the week.

At some point, however, somebody is going to have to address the fact that this is still an operational railway, so an unsafe footbridge needs to be either repaired or removed. I imagine this will need Network Rail and Essar to come to an agreement one way or another as whatever the operation is, it’ll need access to both parties’ land.

Merseyrail running to Helsby would be ideal- that area of Cheshire is becoming commuter belt for Liverpool. An old school friend teaches at Liverpool University and commutes in from Delamere, but his preferred option is to drive to Hartford and pick the train up there.
 

bramling

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Is Oil Sites Road a public right of way? It is not shown on the OS map as one.

I’m sure I remember reading about this at some point. The general view was that it *isn’t* a right of way, however the owners were content to let locals use it (in the same way Dawes Lane through Scunthorpe steel works is well used by locals - despite signage stating it’s a private road no one bats an eyelid).

However there became an increasing issue with locals using it as a racetrack, so the owners decided to put a stop to everyone using it apart from those with business. From what I recall it’s still available to walkers and cyclists.

I forget who actually owns it but presume it’s the owners of the refinery.
 

Pacef8

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If you could get a definitive answer that would be a big help . I got the impression they where asking if i worked at either end . Not just someone out for a bike ride and scoping for oil protestors .
 

Baxenden Bank

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I may be able to look into the ownership later in the week.
If you could get a definitive answer that would be a big help . I got the impression they where asking if i worked at either end . Not just someone out for a bike ride and scoping for oil protestors .
Looking at the various planning applications, the matter is 'unclear'.

A planning applicant has (by law, not council fussiness) to declare their land ownership and/or serve notice on those who own the land (lets not get technical about tenancies, leases, long leases) when submitting a planning application. That consists of signed certificates and a location plan showing the boundary of the planning application (the red line) and any other land they own (a blue line).

In relatively recent times there have been Hazardous Material Storage applications. An early one (11_01792_HAZ) shows a wiggly yellow highlighter pen line encompassing the whole site, including Oil Sites Road and the railway so is clearly not an 'ownership' plan. A later one (13_05540_HAZ) shows detailed red lines which generally exclude the whole width of the former sidings, mainline railway, more sidings and Oil Sites Road. But it is badly drawn on the north side of the road, the ownership not following recognisable features (fencelines, roadlines etc) which ownership generally does. The most recent one (17_04511_HAZ) has the same detailed (but probably sloppily drafted) red line with the exclusion of the science park (bought by the university in 2014). Applications for the science park show that ownership including the car park north of the railway near to the roundabout at the eastern end of Oil Sites Road.

I also looked at the Vauxhall plant, just up the road in Ellesmere Port. There the main road past the factory (North Road) is public, apart from a short section (460m) where there are big red signs including 'this is a private way which members of the public are not entitled to use'. Both signs say 'westwards from this point', so one of them needs changing! The western one says 'no unlicensed vehicles beyond this point' on the reverse so it may be a simple workaround to allow internal shunting of vehicles from factory to storage yard which would otherwise be illegal on a proper public road.

A similar situation may exist on Oil Sites Road but without a Google Streetview I cannot tell - there are clearly barriers across all four road lanes at Argent Energy Gate 3.

The public right of way, referred to previously, used to continue from the end of Bridges Road, eastwards to Folly Bridge over the Rover Gowy then southwards to come out on the A5117 at Avanti Gas Ellesmere Port. Historically it meandered through the fields where the refinery now stands so must have been diverted to then show on the 1-inch maps viewable on the National Library of Scotland website. Presumably! it was officially closed at some point with it not showing on the online definitive map linked above.
 
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frodshamfella

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The only thing is that Helsby already has a direct and faster service to Liverpool via the Halton Curve, so you would be extending 2tph just to benefit a small population in Ince and Elton. Extending Merseyrail beyond Helsby to Runcorn or Warrington BQ would be much better for connectivity (Ellesmere Port would be just one change from London for example), but at the risk of importing delays onto the rest of the Merseyrail Wirral Line network since it would no longer be self-contained.
I think Merseytravel have a plan to extend to Runcorn East, im sure I saw a map with that. It would be an odd choice when Warrington BQ would be much more useful. If ot got to Helsby it would be self contained up to there, and would benefit stations between Hooton and Ellesmere Port for connections
 

Bletchleyite

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I think Merseytravel have a plan to extend to Runcorn East, im sure I saw a map with that. It would be an odd choice when Warrington BQ would be much more useful. If ot got to Helsby it would be self contained up to there, and would benefit stations between Hooton and Ellesmere Port for connections

Warrington BQ would import delays from the mess that is the WCML. Merseyrail need to be very careful of the risk of turning their heavily used but punctual infrastructure into another Castlefield by overextending their reach.
 

Lloyds siding

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The answer being, at the western end only from the junction of Oil Sites Road / Bridges Road then turning south, under the railway, to the other end of Bridges Road. An interesting route because that part of Bridges Road itself is unadopted and has no apparent rights of use.

More interestingly, who owns Oil Sites Road and therefore who has rights to allow or deny access? I have an old plan which shows 'Manchester Ship Canal Company's Estate coloured Light Green' and 'Land acquired by industrial undertakings coloured Dark Green'. The land between the proper railway and Oil Sites Road is coloured light green. The land on the north side of Oil Sites Road is coloured dark green. The road itself is uncoloured, there is slight misregistration with the colouring blocks but definitely a white space between the blocks of colour. Now that is an old plan (but undated) and MSC may have sold off their landholding when the private railway and sidings ceased to function at this location. One for historians!

View attachment 127516
Image shows an old plan of Manchester Ship Canal landholdings in the Eastham and Stanlow area.
View attachment 127517
Source: the internet
Your maps remind me of my visit to Mount Manesty (many years ago), being dropped off by MSC pilot launch! But that, as they say, is the subject for another thread!
 

Baxenden Bank

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Your maps remind me of my visit to Mount Manesty (many years ago), being dropped off by MSC pilot launch! But that, as they say, is the subject for another thread!
As the thread is Stanlow and Thornton, rather than specifically the railway or station. ;)

This thread got me looking up many things, including an article in a Liverpool paper (Echo I think) which used the 'on demand, 24 hours per day' ferry from the 'mainland' side at Stanlow to the 'river' side at Stanlow Oil Docks, taking across someone who used to live between the canal and river. I remember as a child looking at maps and wondering about the many ferries shown up and down the canal (pre-internet such research was rather more difficult).

Secondly, I found a number of pictures of the various railway operations, some taken from the footbridge at Stanlow and Thornton station. Sidings full of (possibly) TEA tankers! Reference is made in the comments to a photo of the keenness of the security people back in 1990, when many things were a bit less security/terrorist/activist conscious. This flickr user Gordon Edgar has a few which, for copyright reasons, I will point people to rather than uploading.

Finally I noticed from old aerial photographs that the bridge to access the station used to be further east ie closer to the roundabout and the current structure is a replacement for that.
 
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Wavertreelad

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Back in the 1960's Oil Sites Road was a public road for it's entire length as I recall when I visited the Stanlow terminal with my father. This was long before the M53 was built so one of the problems was speeding traffic and a high level of accidents. The last time I visited the area was probably 12 to 15 years ago again to visit the Stanlow site, and I was surprised to see the the road blocked off beyond the entrance to prevent public through movements to the Elton roundabout. At the time I assumed this was due to some form of expansion of the site across the road, but subsequently it seems it is related to security and hence the restricted access signage on the roundabout which state stopping and photography is prohibited once you pass the inspection point. This is common in port facilities under the International Ship and Safety regulations and I think there may be similar signs at the Tranmere Oil Terminal site on the River Mersey as well as within the restricted area of the Port of Liverpool. Back to the Stanlow site, I doubt there are any residents living on the island between the MSC and River Mersey, apart from perhaps the ferry man/men who ferry visits to the three tanker berths at the Stanlow site which are located on the island. From personal experience the only inhabitants appear to be rabbits, hundreds of them judging by the droppings!
 

WesternBiker

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Secondly, I found a number of pictures of the various railway operations, some taken from the footbridge at Stanlow and Thornton station. Sidings full of (possibly) TEA tankers! Reference is made in the comments to a photo of the keenness of the security people back in 1990, when many things were a bit less security/terrorist/activist conscious. This flickr user Gordon Edgar has a few which, for copyright reasons, I will point people to rather than uploading.
That's a great photograph - and shows the current site (despite still being a substantial enterprise) is a shadow of its heyday.

On my last visit the extensive sidings were already becoming overgrown. Are there any in use, these days, does anyone know?
 

frodshamfella

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Warrington BQ would import delays from the mess that is the WCML. Merseyrail need to be very careful of the risk of turning their heavily used but punctual infrastructure into another Castlefield by overextending their reach.
in that case, I would suggest terminating at Helsby being the best option, no conflict there.
 

8A Rail

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That's a great photograph - and shows the current site (despite still being a substantial enterprise) is a shadow of its heyday.

On my last visit the extensive sidings were already becoming overgrown. Are there any in use, these days, does anyone know?
The simple answer is no. Currently there are no freight trains serving that particular area or even into Ellesmere Port dock quays.

The nearest freight train is the sand train that serves Quinn's glass with the connection near to (ex) Helsby West Cheshire Junction.
 

Bletchleyite

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in that case, I would suggest terminating at Helsby being the best option, no conflict there.

I think realistically if Merseyrail does extend that way it will indeed terminate at Helsby, probably on the central "island" with the northmost platform disused. But the case is fairly weak unless the factory at Elton was to close and an eco village be constructed in its place. However I half recall there are planning restrictions close to major oil terminals due to the potential very high risk posed by a leak or explosion?

The only way I can see of Merseyrail reaching Warrington is if the Merseyrail-Metrolink split happens on the CLC once NPR is built.
 
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