Interesting Merseyrail Dispute Video

[John Luxton]

I stumbled across this on a Mersey Rail Facebook page a few minutes ago.

A group of people who do not appear inebriated have been refused travel and appear to be in dispute with Carlisle Security who are denying them travel under the basis they are under the influence.

There isn't much context and it's not know what might have happened before.

However, it might be of interest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseyrail have form for this since one of the high profile accidents. They generally tell heavily drunk people to go away, have a coffee and/or a kebab and come back when a bit less disorderly.

 

[AlterEgo]

No context given to the video and it’s not clear what happened before. The group is being denied entry to private property and should go away.

Amanda probably isn’t sober though. Neither is the cameraman.

Edit: the video’s now been removed by the uploader.

 

[John Luxton]

No context given to the video and it’s not clear what happened before. The group is being denied entry to private property and should go away.

Amanda probably isn’t sober though. Neither is the cameraman.

Edit: the video’s now been removed by the uploader.

Not surprised it has gone that was the advice to the poster on the FB group from a few though it appeared to divide opinion.

 

[Merseysider]

If it's at one of the loop stations just walk to the next one. Not worth getting into a kerfuffle over.

 

[John Luxton]

Merseyrail have form for this since one of the high profile accidents. They generally tell heavily drunk people to go away, have a coffee and/or a kebab and come back when a bit less disorderly.

As the video was removed the FB page admin who had actually posted it turned off comments.

However, someone else who obviously knew about what went on before filming reopened the conversation and alleged that the F word was used to one of the staff.

 

[matt_world2004]

They were slightly slurry but not stumbling. I speculate that the woman who was off camera was too drunk to board and they banned the whole group instead of the individual.

If I was in that situation and the security guard told me I was too drunk to travel hy train. I would politely tell them. OK, I will drive instead

 

[AlterEgo]

Not surprised it has gone that was the advice to the poster on the FB group from a few though it appeared to divide opinion.

They’re definitely not the most inebriated people those guys will have dealt with but they’re also not sober and they don’t come across well. The security guys come across okay in general. There was repeated swearing towards them by the prospective passengers and they were polite and calm in response.

They were slightly slurry but not stumbling.

The security guard alleged their approach to the barrier line showed at least one of them to be unsteady on their feet. So they said, anyway.

 

[skyhigh]

If I was in that situation and the security guard told me I was too drunk to travel hy train. I would politely tell them. OK, I will drive instead

Yes, because that will clearly improve the situation for you...

 

[matt_world2004]

Yes, because that will clearly improve the situation for you...

but then again not in the remit of the merseyrail security guards

 

[nanstallon]

For once, my sympathies are with the security people. It is not very nice for the other passengers to have inebriated fellow travellers hassling them.

 

[AlterEgo]

but then again not in the remit of the merseyrail security guards

They are not going to care.

 

[Merseysider]

Yes, because that will clearly improve the situation for you...

Not their problem. If they knowingly let another drunk onto the platform who slips under, they lose their job. They turn away a drunk who ends up having to get a bus or taxi, or makes the stupid decision to drink drive, they keep their job, whilst maybe catching a bit of flak off the drunkard. Easy decision.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not their problem. If they knowingly let another drunk onto the platform who slips under, they lose their job. They turn away a drunk who ends up having to get a bus or taxi, or makes the stupid decision to drink drive, they keep their job, whilst maybe catching a bit of flak off the drunkard. Easy decision.

Though sometimes the wrong one. There was a well documented case of someone with a gait disability being refused as drunk despite having consumed no alcohol. That is totally unacceptable.

Of course the foul language of these prospective passengers make it pretty clear that they have.

 

[AntoniC]

I watched the video last night and thought the Carlisle security guards were polite, professional all the way through and did their best to reason with a group of people who had consumed alcohol, some more than others.
There was the occasional F bomb dropped by the filmer, but it most be so frustrating to be a security guard trying to talk common sense to those under the influence.

 

[SussexSeagull]

The video is down so I can't comment on the specific case but I have never heard of people being turned away from a train for being drunk before.

Regardless they need to be really sure when they do something like that. I have a lazy eye and a mild limp and have been accused of being drunk when being stone cold sober before and a friend of mine who once had a stroke slightly slurs his words has had the same.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The video is down so I can't comment on the specific case but I have never heard of people being turned away from a train for being drunk before.

It is very much a Merseyrail thing, I have never known any other TOC do it unless staff were assaulted or abused.

Regardless they need to be really sure when they do something like that. I have a lazy eye and a mild limp and have been accused of being drunk when being stone cold sober before and a friend of mine who once had a stroke slightly slurs his words has had the same.

This has actually happened too. It certainly hit the Press.

 

[AlterEgo]

It is very much a Merseyrail thing, I have never known any other TOC do it unless staff were assaulted or abused.

Grand Central has (had?) private security when they ran the last northbound train from York to Teesside and Wearside several years ago.

 

[Haywain]

It is very much a Merseyrail thing, I have never known any other TOC do it unless staff were assaulted or abused.

Merseyrail had a high profile case of someone drunk managing to lose their life through falling under a train, so it is perhaps understandable that they will take a strong stance on this.

 

[SargeNpton]

The video is down so I can't comment on the specific case but I have never heard of people being turned away from a train for being drunk before.

Regardless they need to be really sure when they do something like that. I have a lazy eye and a mild limp and have been accused of being drunk when being stone cold sober before and a friend of mine who once had a stroke slightly slurs his words has had the same.

Plenty of examples in Scotland. Also where trains have been declared dry.

 

[geoffk]

I don't like seeing people drunk in a public place (and I include stations) but they've got to get home somehow. They can't drive and taxis won't take them in case they throw up. As the new Stadler units will have sliding steps and level boarding, the risk of someone falling under the train should be reduced (eliminated?).

 

[Lloyds siding]

Nothing new: a local political activist sued the security staff in 2014 after this incident.

CCTV footage: Peace campaigner wins five-figure pay-out after losing front tooth in altercation with train station security guard

Mark Holt of the Stop the War coalition awarded cash by Merseyrail's security firm Carlisle

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

It is very much a Merseyrail thing, I have never known any other TOC do it unless staff were assaulted or abused.

Northern and EMR have the Taliban out at Lime Street on Friday and Saturday nights confiscating alcohol.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I don't like seeing people drunk in a public place (and I include stations) but they've got to get home somehow. They can't drive and taxis won't take them in case they throw up.

How does it follow from taxis not being prepared to take drunks home that the railway should?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nothing new: a local political activist sued the security staff in 2014 after this incident.

CCTV footage: Peace campaigner wins five-figure pay-out after losing front tooth in altercation with train station security guard

Mark Holt of the Stop the War coalition awarded cash by Merseyrail's security firm Carlisle

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Northern and EMR have the Taliban out at Lime Street on Friday and Saturday nights confiscating alcohol.

But not generally refusing people for being slightly drunk.

How does it follow from taxis not being prepared to take drunks home that the railway should?

I think it is reasonable for the railway to refuse people taxis would, but Merseyrail's bar (!) seems very low.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I think it is reasonable for the railway to refuse people taxis would, but Merseyrail's bar (!) seems very low.

Which would seem to suggest that people can get a taxi home after all. So there isn't a problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which would seem to suggest that people can get a taxi home after all. So there isn't a problem.

In my opinion it is a problem because the bar is too low and is causing harrassment of disabled people. Plus what if they can't afford a taxi? Well over thirty quid to Ormskirk or Southport.

While the one in this video seems calm, Merseyrail's hired thugs rarely provide consistently good customer service.

 

[SargeNpton]

Perhaps this is why MerseyRail in particular are reluctant to let people under the influence onto platforms...

Georgia Varley death: Christopher McGee, Merseyrail guard, blamed in court

A Merseyrail guard charged with the manslaughter of a teenager at a station was the only person who could have prevented her death, a court hears.

www.bbc.co.uk

"A Merseyrail guard charged with the manslaughter of a teenager at a station was the only person who could have prevented her death, a court has heard.

Georgia Varley, 16, from Wallasey, Wirral, died when she fell between the carriage and platform at Liverpool's James Street station in October 2011."

 

[Surreytraveller]

How does it follow from taxis not being prepared to take drunks home that the railway should?

Taxis are owned by private individuals.

 

[sheff1]

It is very much a Merseyrail thing, I have never known any other TOC do it unless staff were assaulted or abused.

I witnessed a group of drunk people wishing to travel to Alfreton prevented by the BTP from boarding the last train home at Manchester Piccadilly. It is possible, though, that they had abused staff beforehand.

I don't like seeing people drunk in a public place (and I include stations) but they've got to get home somehow.

They can get home after they have sobered up. What they do until then is up to them. I see no reason why the railway should accommodate people acting in breach of the law.

Having been refused travel, they might think twice the next time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I said they are MUCH stricter than behaviour that could lead to a Drunk & Disorderly charge.