313 Railtour?

[HamworthyGoods]

Class 313 Farewell - Saturday 29th April 2023.
Like with the 455 Farewell, Operated by Southern (GTR), Ticketing is done by the Branch Line Society.
No further detail at the moment, Save the date!
View attachment 129701

News to me that GTR has a charter licence to run a tour under their own Track Access Agreement - surely they would need someone else to run it on their behalf?

 

[that1pepfan]

Class 313 Farewell - Saturday 29th April 2023.
Like with the 455 Farewell, Operated by Southern (GTR), Ticketing is done by the Branch Line Society.
No further detail at the moment, Save the date!
View attachment 129701

Thank you so much!!! Why's it so early, is it like the 315 tour if so that's gonna be boring lol

 

[JonathanH]

News to me that GTR has a charter licence to run a tour under their own Track Access Agreement - surely they would need someone else to run it on their behalf?

Isn't that why they go to the BLS as booking agent and the money goes to charity? The farewell tours for the 319s and 455s took a similar approach.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

As much as I love/hate the 313's, I might even go on this.... Depends where the tour is going. Presume it will start from Brighton - we'll see when details become available

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Isn't that why they go to the BLS as booking agent and the money goes to charity? The farewell tours for the 319s and 455s took a similar approach.

Not as a booking agent I mean the actual track access agreement they run it under. AFAIK the only TOC with a charter licence is GWR.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

As a layman, and sorry for the stupid question, but why should GTR have a charter licence? Is this just for insurance purposes?

 

[Foxxle]

As much as I love/hate the 313's, I might even go on this.... Depends where the tour is going. Presume it will start from Brighton - we'll see when details become available

Is it possible do you think for them to run it into London? It seems unlikely but that'd be amazing.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Is it possible do you think for them to run it into London? It seems unlikely but that'd be amazing.

Highly unlikely

 

[HamworthyGoods]

As a layman, and sorry for the stupid question, but why should GTR have a charter licence? Is this just for insurance purposes?

Effectively yes in a number of ways, your track access agreement allows you to run trains on the national network. Most TOCs only have agreements which let you run the agreed passenger services.

There are railway folk with much better understanding of Track Access contracts on this forum and hopefully one of those will be able to explain better.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Effectively yes in a number of ways, your track access agreement allows you to run trains on the national network. Most TOCs only have agreements which let you run the agreed passenger services.

There are railway folk with much better understanding of Track Access contracts on this forum and hopefully one of those will be able to explain better.

Cheers !

 

[Kite159]

I wonder what sort of route they are planning to take the 313s on. Will it be as interesting as the 455 farewell or be something like the 315 farewell and only be Brighton to Bognor & back via Littlehampton.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

I hope they'll at least be able to run it as far as the 313s have run in service in relatively recent years, as far east as Hastings and west as Southampton.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Hastings would be great, but I expect that would require a driver's refresher? Same to Southampton?

Any many toilet breaks !

 

[swt_passenger]

I hope they'll at least be able to run it as far as the 313s have run in service in relatively recent years, as far east as Hastings and west as Southampton.

I think a reasonable western end of the railtour could cover both Southampton and Eastleigh, and potentially run via the west side of the Farlington Triangle that Southern don’t normally cover in the day to day timetable?

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Class 313 Farewell - Saturday 29th April 2023.
Like with the 455 Farewell, Operated by Southern (GTR), Ticketing is done by the Branch Line Society.
No further detail at the moment, Save the date!
View attachment 129701

I'm a BLS Member and have been to their Website this lunchtime. Can't find this or any reference to it...

 

[MrJeeves]

I'm a BLS Member and have been to their Website this lunchtime. Can't find this or any reference to it...

Yeah, it's disappeared between when I saw it this morning and now.

 

[OliverH68]

Yeah, it's disappeared between when I saw it this morning and now.

I suspect someone at BLS Towers let the cat out of the bag a bit too early

 

[TheHSRailFan]

I suspect someone at BLS Towers let the cat out of the bag a bit too early

My thinking was that they were staying till May before the timetable change. So it did come as a surprise when it showed April instead and bit too early to call.

 

[JonathanH]

My thinking was that they were staying till May before the timetable change. So it did come as a surprise when it showed April instead and bit too early to call.

They don't have to run a farewell tour on the actual last day. 29 April is only three weeks before the likely withdrawal date if it is aligned with the timetable change.

 

[trainmania100]

For my guessing, Ore is a likely candidate for this tour and the up siding. Maybe even a run back via Tonbridge, Redhill, then down to Arundel via Horsham, the Solent and return.

Why have people said London as unlikely?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Has a 313 ever been up the mainline to London? Would they be cleared for a pax working?

 

[that1pepfan]

Has a 313 ever been up the mainline to London? Would they be cleared for a pax working?

Yeah, only as far as selhurst

 

[JKF]

Are there any preservation proposals for this class? To me they’re the most iconic of the PEP designs, they were splashed on lots of publicity material in the mid-late 70s alongside the Inter City 125, a sign of the railways turning the corner after decades of contraction. I still have a combined volume spotter book somewhere with 313007 on the cover (that one in particular seemed to pop up in a lot of photos).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Are there any preservation proposals for this class? To me they’re the most iconic of the PEP designs, they were splashed on lots of publicity material in the mid-late 70s alongside the Inter City 125, a sign of the railways turning the corner after decades of contraction. I still have a combined volume spotter book somewhere with 313007 on the cover (that one in particular seemed to pop up in a lot of photos).

Apart from 201 for the NRM I have no idea.

Be interested in what year your spotting book is..presume it's Ian Allan?

 

[JonathanH]

Has a 313 ever been up the mainline to London? Would they be cleared for a pax working?

They go to Selhurst frequently. 455s didn't run to Billingshurst yet one went there on the farewell trip.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

They go to Selhurst frequently. 455s didn't run to Billingshurst yet one went there on the farewell trip.

Yes I know that but they don't carry passengers! That's not what I asked...

 

[LowLevel]

Effectively yes in a number of ways, your track access agreement allows you to run trains on the national network. Most TOCs only have agreements which let you run the agreed passenger services.

There are railway folk with much better understanding of Track Access contracts on this forum and hopefully one of those will be able to explain better.

East Midlands Trains ran charters all over the country with HSTs both for charity and commercially, albeit with a partner managing bookings. They used standard EMT drivers, guards, catering crews etc with route conductors as required. They also ran charters with 156s for organisations like the Branch Line Society.

I'm not aware there's anything to stop a TOC running an additional service, farewell tour or whatever you wish to call it on it's own patch. Most simply don't bother, though farewell tours are often the exception.

 

[trainmania100]

Yes I know that but they don't carry passengers! That's not what I asked...

Can't see any reason why they wouldn't be allowed to London Victoria or bridge unless they're wider than a 377 or something like that.

Probably want to keep it down here anyway for the toilet requirements.

Maybe it'll do something like the 442 tour and have excursions of various sidings, like hove or bognor middle siding etc.

 

[1Q18]

Hastings would be great, but I expect that would require a driver's refresher? Same to Southampton?

Any many toilet breaks !

There will be drivers who sign the Ore and Southampton routes and also sign 313s; route and traction competences are separate. It doesn’t matter that the hypothetical driver in question will only rarely, if ever, have driven a 313 on those routes.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

They don't have to run a farewell tour on the actual last day. 29 April is only three weeks before the likely withdrawal date if it is aligned with the timetable change.

The issue with that is then they can't call it a "farewell tour". A lot of enthusiasts like a "farewell tour" on its last day or the last time it carries passengers like with the 455 tour.